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Audio > Commissioned Music?

#123232 - sgeos - Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:03 am

Does anyone know how to get video game music commmissioned?
Are there "indie" composers? How much does "real" commissioned music cost?

Sound ideas seems to be a good place to get sound effects. (Other cheaper places do exist.)

-Brendan

#123234 - keldon - Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:22 am

What sort of music are you after? You might find people on soundclick which is a large music community. I could create music, but my time is very tight at the moment and I wouldn't want to commit to anything, but there are plenty of people who could do this on soundclick (I think).

The cost of a real composer depends on their experience, how they value their work and what they are willing to let it go for. I personally put my work at $30-$60 per hour as a measure of how much this particular piece of music is. Royalties are all down to negotiation, but some composers are quite happy to sell whatever they make for $10-$30. How much you tend to get depends on the funding behind the project, a theme tune [for example] can get anything from $1,000 to $10,000, film scoring is even more - bearing in mind your composer is likely to be hiring an orchestra and producing in surround sound.

#123237 - sgeos - Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:45 am

keldon wrote:
What sort of music are you after?

In general, something high energy. Right now I'm after a ballpark figure more than anything else. Ie, if I want eight 8 BGMs, two minutes each what will it cost?

keldon wrote:
You might find people on soundclick which is a large music community.

Thanks for the link. This is probably what I'm looking for.

keldon wrote:
I could create music, but my time is very tight at the moment and I wouldn't want to commit to anything, but there are plenty of people who could do this on soundclick (I think).

I'm in no rush. To give you the spotlight for a second, what do you do and what might you be able to manage (given a less busy schedule)?

Quote:
I personally put my work at $30-$60 per hour as a measure of how much this particular piece of music is.

This question might not be very meaningful, but how long would it take you to arrange a two minute BGM in your native style? A better question- what would you want for a two minute BGM?

Quote:
Royalties are all down to negotiation, but some composers are quite happy to sell whatever they make for $10-$30. How much you tend to get depends on the funding behind the project

Do most games use a flat rate or an advance against royalties? I assume that all of this can be negotiated.

Quote:
a theme tune [for example] can get anything from $1,000 to $10,000, film scoring is even more - bearing in mind your composer is likely to be hiring an orchestra and producing in surround sound.

Out of curiosity, how much is an orchestra? I imagine that most of the people here just want something that will work with the playback library- probably MOD, maybe MIDI. MP3 is conceivable.

-Brendan

#123241 - keldon - Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:14 pm

sgeos wrote:
In general, something high energy. Right now I'm after a ballpark figure more than anything else. Ie, if I want eight 8 BGMs, two minutes each what will it cost?

Some people would [like I said] give you an instant quote of something like $10 each, or a lump sum with a lower average for each. My ball park figure would be $100, which can be seen as both expensive and cheap depending on your budget and perspective.

sgeos wrote:
I'm in no rush. To give you the spotlight for a second, what do you do and what might you be able to manage (given a less busy schedule)?

Most of my work on-line is centred around hip hop, with a few occasional songs geared to scoring. But in total I have about 600 arrangements on my computer; many are ideas and experiments with different sounds/rhythms. My music does tend to sound like game/film music, but on-line I only present my hip hop work. At least 50 have been put onto CD's for some form of use; and one collection of scene intervals for a sitcom. In a less busy schedule I could have them done in week with no problems; I might even say I could produce 8 complete arrangements in one day.
My music online
- Keldon Alleyne presents Premature M'Tracks You Playin'
- Keldon Alleyne
Notable arrangements (which are hip hop ish, but more melodic arrangements nonetheless):
- The buildup
- Classical 1
- Riverbank
- Behind the veil
- What does it take
- My World

sgeos wrote:
This question might not be very meaningful, but how long would it take you to arrange a two minute BGM in your native style? A better question- what would you want for a two minute BGM?

I was always under the impression that most BGM's were simple loops, although command and conquer used set songs. I think I could guarantee a single 2 minute BGM that I would be satisfied with in one or two hours, I could probably knock one up in 10-15 minutes, but there is always the chance that it is not the best arrangement but an arrangement can definitely be made in that time. Having said that with it being with simple hardware and sounds there's much less to think about, is this for pc/gba/ds? And what sort of sounds/sound capabilities are available?

sgeos wrote:
Do most games use a flat rate or an advance against royalties? I assume that all of this can be negotiated.

I am unsure of this completely, maybe Mike could shed some light.

sgeos wrote:
Out of curiosity, how much is an orchestra? I imagine that most of the people here just want something that will work with the playback library- probably MOD, maybe MIDI. MP3 is conceivable.

Well just think of a small orchestra of 20 people recording they would expect at least $100-$200 for any amount of time and the conductor may charge more. But yes that would only be with films, and smaller ensembles would be used for smaller budgets, or synths and instruments.

#123245 - keldon - Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:10 pm

Look what I found from AtomSplitter

AtomSplitter@soundclick
- The Corporation

#123250 - sgeos - Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:25 pm

keldon wrote:
Some people would [like I said] give you an instant quote of something like $10 each, or a lump sum with a lower average for each. My ball park figure would be $100, which can be seen as both expensive and cheap depending on your budget and perspective.

$100 is doable. Of course, one can only manage so many $100 contracts at a time.

Quote:
My music does tend to sound like game/film music,

For what it's worth, your music is better suited for a game than most of the stuff I found on SC. I only briefly looked, and as you mentioned, just because it is not posted doesn't mean that it can't be managed. I'm sure there are a whole bunch of folkes of all different skill levels that could pull something off.

Quote:
I was always under the impression that most BGM's were simple loops,

That depends on how you define "simple". Most games use loops that are from 45 seconds to 3 minutes. Endings, intros, credit rolls and the like tend to be longer. There are some short loops, 15 seconds, but those get annoying fast.

The SNES sound chip contained a processor, and some games would change the music depending on the game state. Some games change the pitch or beat depending on in game events. In theory you could even have random branch points and a branch table or use fractal music.

I'm looking for loops that are about 2 minutes; about 16 total minutes of music. I'll need to draw up a music spec and figure out exactly what I want.

Quote:
I think I could guarantee a single 2 minute BGM that I would be satisfied with in one or two hours,

$30 ~ $120 per polished commissioned BGM?

Quote:
I could probably knock one up in 10-15 minutes, but there is always the chance that it is not the best arrangement but an arrangement can definitely be made in that time.

I honestly might want to go with 10-15 minute arrangements due to budget (this would be less time for you). Could an ad hoc 3 layer arrangement that is not completely horrible be made in this amount of time? (They tend to sound better than just a beat and a melody.) For what it's worth, my budget will be about $100.

I own about 8 sound effects from a card game I made a while back. (Donated by a guy with mad skills.) Maybe I can recycle those. =P Dubious, but maybe.

Quote:
is this for pc/gba/ds?

Almost certainly GBA/DS.

Quote:
And what sort of sounds/sound capabilities are available?

Whatever the playback library (undecided) supports.

Quote:
Well just think of a small orchestra of 20 people recording they would expect at least $100-$200 for any amount of time and the conductor may charge more.

$2000 ~ $5000+? Everything considered, that is not a huge amount of money depending on what you are doing. Way out my range though. =)

-Brendan

#123271 - Lynx - Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:54 pm

sgeos wrote:
Quote:
Well just think of a small orchestra of 20 people recording they would expect at least $100-$200 for any amount of time and the conductor may charge more.

$2000 ~ $5000+? Everything considered, that is not a huge amount of money depending on what you are doing. Way out my range though. =)


Local high school comes to mind.. but I guess it really depends on what type of music you are looking for, and the complexity of your local high school band.
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NDS Homebrew Roms & Reviews

#123298 - sgeos - Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:37 am

keldon wrote:
Look what I found from AtomSplitter (band song)

Good, depending on what kind of game you are making.

Lynx wrote:
Local high school comes to mind.. but I guess it really depends on what type of music you are looking for, and the complexity of your local high school band.

What do recording fees run? Recording equipment? (Only relevant if one wants recorded music in their game.)

-Brendan

#123320 - HyperHacker - Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:50 am

You don't need high-quality recording equipment for the DS's low-quality sound hardware. A good mic and a laptop (or PC if you can lug one in) would probably do it. Or, you could try to hook the mic up to the DS and record with DSOrganize... can't say how well it'd come out though. ;-)
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I'm a PSP hacker now, but I still <3 DS.

#123330 - keldon - Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:19 am

sgeos wrote:
What do recording fees run? Recording equipment? (Only relevant if one wants recorded music in their game.)

Most music studios are as cheap as $400 per day, even with larger live rooms where you can accommodate small orchestras. For larger affairs you have to call for a quote. In the early Playstation days MIDI was all that was needed, but nowadays it's professional recordings with royalties.

Although the DS may have low sound quality you still will notice the difference in quality of the recording, just consider recording music using your phone mic compared to a commercial recording!

I've been trying trackers, and I can work with them but their interfaces and recording methods are a little awkward. As for sounds I have about 40GB of them, plus I can make plenty of new ones using synths.

An arrangement with few layers is much quicker to make, but the number of layers shouldn't be any worry for any composer for eight 2-minute BGM's.

#129670 - yannis - Thu May 24, 2007 10:12 pm

I couldn't help notice this thread. Haven't been active on the boards for a while due to a lot of work.

If you're serious about music for DS then i would hire someone who knows what they're doing, and knows multiple engines, file formats.

If you're using wav based music you will need a lot of ROM space to store it and a streaming system (unless you're using Nitro).

As far as commissioned tracks go, it really depends on the experience of the person and the quality of their work. Cheaper composer tend not to have the experience needed to make quality tracks and make them sound good on teh DS. Also unless you're technically savvy it's difficult to either create mod based music or understand how to use Nintendo's Tools. I've consulted to some respected high-end composers who didn't know how to do DS audio. Even the top guns don't know this stuff very well.

As for average fees charged be prepared to pay between 5k-15k for music/sfx depending on how much music and how soon you'll need it.

I tend to charge on the higher end as I have a lot of commercil credits under my belt and don't have time to work indie/homebrew projects anymore, unless I have a personal interest in it. This is primarily due to time taken to create assets for an non-paying, low paying project eats into time needed to satisfy clients who are paying commercial rates. Nothing personal, it's just business and when you're surviving on contracts then you do what you need to do.

If there's a serious commercial project and you need solid advice or help with audio then shoot me an email.
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DS & GBA Audio Professional
www.GroovyAudio.com

#129695 - keldon - Fri May 25, 2007 6:55 am

yannis: signature wrote:
www.GroovyAudio.com

You are aware that using frames is a sin punishable by death -_-

#142822 - Jesse Hopkins - Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:40 am

sgeos wrote:
Does anyone know how to get video game music commmissioned?
Are there "indie" composers? How much does "real" commissioned music cost?

Sound ideas seems to be a good place to get sound effects. (Other cheaper places do exist.)

-Brendan


I work full time as a composer and sound designer.

Here's my site:
http://www.composerarts.com

I have experience with DS music formats. If you are looking for high energy, here are mp3 rendered example of some tracker music (it could sound like this as xm files in the NDS game).
http://www.composerarts.com/LegendaryBoss.mp3
http://www.composerarts.com/Skyship.mp3
http://www.composerarts.com/Duck1-1.mp3
http://www.composerarts.com/CursedForest.mp3