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Help Wanted > DS POD Project - Developers WANTED!

#103747 - Gravity - Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:55 am

Tell me if I'm steppin some sort of boundaries on your forums by committing some developer faupas.

I'm a visual designer with a laughable programming background.

But I'll tell you what, I do love me the rumored touch screen Ipod. But, I am tired of waiting for it to happen.

In fact, I think I can do it better than them and I've realized that the DS is the perfect platform for my experiment. So what I'm looking to do is make a touch screen IPOD like mp3 player that will be insanely interactive, eye bogglingly 3d, and capable of wifi broadcasts.

I've attached some initial previz that I put together just to get the idea out of my brain and in a more tangible form:

[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]
[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]

or just visit the site I've put up:
http://www.newthesaur.us/DS/


These are just initial ideas and the final product will really depend on what the team is capable of pulling off. The scroll wheel is just to get my head around the idea and the final interaction will take full advantage of the limitless possibilities of touch screen interface.

So here's where you guys come in. I'm looking for some talented programmers to make this dream come true. If you are interested please pm me, email me (mtseng@newthesaur.us) or get me on AIM (mrbagsays).

I hope to hear from you guys. I totally respect the homebrew community and want to be a greater part in what you guys do best - making great apps.

Michael

p.s. please throw your ideas into this thread too.

Last edited by Gravity on Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

#103749 - Gravity - Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:07 am

jester wrote:
i would love to help one question isnt this copying the rights of the IPOD?


So yeah, regarding that, 2 things.

1. The final product will not look exactly like the Apple IPOD, all though it WILL have a styling reminiscent of the IPOD interface. I think the scroll wheel is the only part that is in the grey zone. But I don't even think that the final product will sport a "scroll wheel". This will be something nailed down during the development

2. I want them to notice this. Hopefully we won't get sued, but generally Apple does not go further than a cease and assist. Maybe we could get jobs out of this?

#103750 - jester - Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:11 am

i would love to help but isnt this just illegal unless we totally change the name plus also will you be coding the music MP3 player aswell?

#103751 - Gravity - Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:13 am

yes, the idea will be to code an mp3 player from the ground up.

The name will change if it has to.

let me elaborate more on some of the features I see this app having (mind you these are just musings and could be taken out in the long run):

3D interface - so one thing that the DS has that the IPOD doesn't is 3D capablility, so using this to enhance the interaction and visual design will be a goal.

Innovative Interaction - this will be my primary contribution. Looking at interfaces beyond the scroll wheel. Since the interface is touch screen based this allows us to have a very dynamic context based gui.

Wifi Broadcast - I dream that a user will be able to walk into a cafe and see that there are three other users playing music in the cafe. From there they can listen to what each user in the cafe is listening to (if the other user has the setting activated). The user won't be able to download music but see song titles with which they can later go to track down the song perhaps on itunes music store to purchase.

These are just three features I'm kicking around right now, and so this should illustrate the type of talent I need to get this together. I'm not only going to need a kick ass programmer to take care of the mp3 section but also someone to handle the 3D and someone who knows the wifi spec.

Last edited by Gravity on Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total

#103752 - jester - Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:14 am

well then i would be happy to join your team one last question Gravity what will you be coding it using?

#103753 - Gravity - Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:19 am

jester wrote:
well then i would be happy to join your team one last question Gravity what will you be coding it using?


Well as I do not have a coding background it will be at the discretion of the head developer on the team.

I'm new to this whole homebrew thing so I'm still trying to piece together all the facts. Maybe this entire project is just a pipe dream.

hey jester can you put down your skills and specialties?

#103755 - jester - Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:37 am

well motivation plus i can code in DSLua

#103815 - Iteo - Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:44 pm

I'm still learning C++ but I know the basics and id love to work on whatever.
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#103870 - Gravity - Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:10 am

hey iteo and jester,

The enthusiasm is great! Where do you see yourself specifically contributing to the project?

#103904 - jester - Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:37 am

well i am in what do u want me to help you with i can code in DSLua!

#104034 - Iteo - Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:44 am

Im really not sure to tell you the truth,
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#104069 - jester - Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:43 am

get the source codes from previous Mp3 players for the ds
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#104142 - Gravity - Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:29 pm

Ok well right now the most important goal is to find someone who can code an mp3 player. If you can reverse engineer another ds homebrew mp3 player that would work too. It's all a learning process.

#104192 - Gravity - Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:50 am

It would be alright if we used sata's mp3 player or moonshell.

btw here's an update, a scroll wheel scheme i'm kicking around.

[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]
[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]

First image is just the dorment scroll wheel
Second image is the scroll wheel with a motion trail resonating from where the user touches the scoller.

#104268 - jester - Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:12 pm

could you try to get as many source codes for mp3 players on handhelds as possible Gravity i will also try my best to get some coders
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#104358 - Mrshlee - Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:05 am

Gravity wrote:

1. The final product will not look exactly like the Apple IPOD, all though it WILL have a styling reminiscent of the IPOD interface. I think the scroll wheel is the only part that is in the grey zone. But I don't even think that the final product will sport a "scroll wheel". This will be something nailed down during the development


Your not going to get sued for using the POD in your name but I would recommend against maybe for creativity sake..

FYI Apple actually stole the "touch wheel" and had to settle with Creative over the patent claim for $100 million.

You need to work on the GUI/make sure its functional.. someone needs to work on the actual code... madlib/ogglib or whatever to play the music

I would love to see this project *the wifi feature is waiting for nifi/ad-hoc* and sgstair doesn't foresee that in the near distance future.

P.S. Check out Rock-Box :)
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#104367 - jester - Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:23 pm

well currently we are gathering more members for the team and those members are being added all the time hopefully i just hope we can gather enough to make the project successful
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#104426 - keldon - Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:24 am

The scroll wheel may not be a problem, bearing in mind it exists in plenty of music applications in the form of knobs. It was most likely the technology that made it work for the i-pod that was patented.

Also for some reason using two fingers on your mouse scroll pad has been patented by apple!!!

#104530 - Mrshlee - Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:14 am

I'm sure the touch screen can be used for better use then a "scroll wheel"
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#104541 - Sausage Boy - Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:37 am

But the scroll wheel is like a slice of heaven! Assuming heaven is a large cylinder.
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#104552 - Lick - Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:43 am

It's the main reason I would use this over other media players. (Besides, I only play MP3's anyway)
The touchpad reminds me of .. My first DS game idea. =P

- Lick
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#104609 - jester - Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:26 pm

cool i think we need to make the DS Pod Player NinjaDS compatible as i will be getting a NinjaDS!! Gravity i have some excellent proposals for the development
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#104745 - Gravity - Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:05 am

Hey guys, thanks for all of the comments. The name of the project is being changed to DS Player for now. I was at this webpage launching party in SF and I ran into an Apple software engineer and he said don't even make anything like the scroll wheel. The Apple lawyers are standing by with sharpened teeth to take out anyone and everyone. Which is just one more reason for us to scrap the wheel. Beyond that reason I think the wheel metaphor breaks down on a touch screen.

Scroll wheels are about linear activity, touch screens allow you to skip b c d and e and go straight from A to F.

Yet another update,

the project is up and running smoothly. We have a forum now:

http://www.newthesaur.us/dsplayer/

This is not just for our dev collaboration but any comments or suggestions are warmly accepted.


thank you to charles for helping me set up the phpbb... which was surprisingly more difficult than i had expected, especially for my peanut sized designer brain.

And here's an update to the direction for the interface without a scroll wheel: [Images not permitted - Click here to view it]

this is a very rough version and you might not get it from the image but the idea is that you will be able to press the arrows and press, hold, and drag the up and down arrows like a throttle to scroll faster or slower. Each song title will be clickable and you can press the left "main" button to switch back.

#104757 - jester - Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:04 pm

cool i have begun work on my game that i hope can be implemented to work with DS Player such as a splash screen and credits etc
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#104775 - arlow - Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:40 pm

the first problem to solve is the quality of the mp3 output if you can achieve something that has much higher quality than moonshell then this is sth to think about otherwise any graphical interface would be just stupid because the sound wouldnt match the interface...

i dont say that moonshell has a low quality but have you ever compared a ipod nano to moonshell....you will smash your DS to pieces :D :D :D


but i have a recommendation for the name :-P iTuneDS :D

instead of a clickwheel one could use the whole touchscreen
if you put the stylus on an empty space and pull it downwards you scroll down...i think the rest is clear...why would you wanna use a system that has less capabilities than a touchscreen on a touchscreen..
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Last edited by arlow on Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:49 pm; edited 2 times in total

#104778 - jester - Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:42 pm

we have many people working on the project but we are looking for a coder to help us make the interface
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#104810 - tepples - Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:25 pm

arlow wrote:
the first problem to solve is the quality of the mp3 output if you can achieve something that has much higher quality than moonshell then this is sth to think about

The DS's DAC (digital to analog converter) is 10-bit at 32768 Hz. A CD player's is 16-bit at 44100 Hz. This 10-bitness is probably what you're hearing.
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#104846 - Sausage Boy - Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:21 am

In my opinion, one of the most important features of an mp3 player is the interface, so yes, it makes sense to have a clear vision of what you want it to look like.
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#110200 - awh85 - Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:16 pm

sorry to bump it up but can anyone else access the forum? i couldnt access it for quite some time already. any news on the progress btw?

#110242 - Dood77 - Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:10 am

i cant access it either, i also have a couple of suggestions...

for a neat kind of 3D interface you could have all the artists, albums, titles.. (etc) on the face of a sphere, you only see half of the sphere and the text fades out towards the edges. you could spin it with the stylus and double-tap to select.
also for the name, im pretty sure iTuneDS would be MUCH more dangerous than DS POD, i suggest dTunes for dual (screen) tunes, (or developer...)
I hope to see this project turn out!

#117349 - alfatreze - Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:34 am

Hi!

So is this project dead or in progress? Seemed quite interesting and I was wondering how it was evolving!
I've had a few ideas of some UI mechanics that could work well and would save the problems of using the click wheel wich may lead u into problems, since apple is very agressive defending their intelectual property!

Drop me a line in my email, alfatreze@gmail.com

As a fellow designer I understand well some of the questions u propose to solve, but as I have some experinence in develop ui, I can also give u some pointers so u won't fall into some pitfalls!
More than all I hope this is still going strong, as there is no good program for music listening on the DS. & at least visually it's looking good in some aspects, lose the futura font, and lose the click wheel more than all!

alfatreze
http://flip.lifeisdigital.net/