#107547 - mustardseed - Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:03 pm
I'm interested in paying a DS developer to create a complete SWF Player for the DS. It probably won't need to support past Flash 6 or 7, but I would like it to support sound and the touch screen.
If you think you could develop this, please PM me with a rough price quote. Thanks!
-- Brian
#107576 - sgeos - Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:27 am
Tweens and anything makes heavy use of floating point integers will not execute in any reasonable amount of time. You are probably looking at dropping things like most transpareny, rotation, scaling, etc. The DS is not fast enough to make up for lack of an FPU.
I suppose you could drop an FPU in a GBA cart and require the add on. I doubt the homebrew scene will tackle that one though.
-Brendan
#107577 - tepples - Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:29 am
Fixed-point arithmetic can handle in-betweening.
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#107580 - sgeos - Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:05 am
| tepples wrote: |
| Fixed-point arithmetic can handle in-betweening. |
Can it deal with the native SWF format, or are you looking at some sort of preprocessor?
IIRC there is some sort of flash for embedded systems. I'm sure it assumes things about your system. "Your system has a display", at the very least. I don't know much about it. It might be configurable.
-Brendan
#107602 - keldon - Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:39 am
Is it possible to use the 3d graphics processor to do arithmetic? Couldn't you use the DS's matrix multiplication for maths?
#107605 - kevinc - Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:07 pm
Transformation is not what takes the most time. It's the rendering of more than 100 bezier shapes that change each frame, with antialias, per pixel alpha blending, texturing and masking that takes the time.
And you can't use the 3D engine because you'll run out of polygons in the first few layers.
And of course, you'll still need CPU time for ActionScript parsing (which by spec mostly *requires* floats, at least in ActionScript 4) and the audio decompression. And if you can't keep synch, it looks terrible.
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#107609 - sgeos - Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:45 pm
Is the goal to run "normal" SWFs at decent frame rates (15/20/30 FPS)?
| kevinc wrote: |
| Transformation is not what takes the most time. It's the rendering of more than 100 bezier shapes that change each frame, with antialias, per pixel alpha blending, texturing and masking that takes the time. |
Antialiasing and per pixel alpha could probably be scrapped. Doing without masking would probably really hurt, although I suppose you could do without. That puts a fair amount of restrictions on the developer. I'm assuming that if bezier shapes could be simplified, they'd have been simplied already.
| kevinc wrote: |
| And of course, you'll still need CPU time for ActionScript parsing (which by spec mostly *requires* floats, at least in ActionScript 4) and the audio decompression. And if you can't keep synch, it looks terrible. |
An integer version of ActionScript seems possible to me, unless the goal is to run standard, unmodified SWFs. Then again, non-standard SWFs would sort of defeat the purpose of using flash in the first place. Only sort of. The dev environment is nice and that is important.
-Brendan
#107638 - keldon - Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:43 pm
| kevinc wrote: |
| And you can't use the 3D engine because you'll run out of polygons in the first few layers. |
I meant the 3d-engine for processing numbers. I am [of course] assuming that the matrice multiplication is done in hardware.
#107643 - kevinc - Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:16 pm
| sgeos wrote: |
| Antialiasing and per pixel alpha could probably be scrapped. Doing without masking would probably really hurt, although I suppose you could do without. That puts a fair amount of restrictions on the developer. I'm assuming that if bezier shapes could be simplified, they'd have been simplied already. |
I did once a demo of a flash player without antialias. People said it looked too ugly, and since with antialias you'll get 5 fps, why bother?
Doing without masking *does* hurt. You'll see random surfaces covering stuff you're supposed to be seeing, sometimes the whole screen in black or covering important characters. Doesn't work.
Bezier curves can be straightened in lots of small straight lines, that's not much of an issue, the thing is that for each bezier you'll get about 10 straights (depending on size and transformation), and that steals CPU power. It's worse with edge lines, which by spec must always have round edges - meaning that you have to render each line as an individual shape. And no, you can't skip that, for some SWF's (like that popular stick-man matrix-fighting series) it's a must.
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#107687 - Lynx - Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:47 am
Not that I really know all the techincal stuff behind it but I do remember this...
Natrium42 DSFlash (SWF Player)
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#107691 - poslundc - Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:12 am
It was my understanding the Flash format license expressly forbade the creation of players of the SWF format; only of exporters. Anyone know any better?
Dan.
#107705 - kevinc - Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:05 am
| poslundc wrote: |
It was my understanding the Flash format license expressly forbade the creation of players of the SWF format; only of exporters. Anyone know any better?
Dan. |
Up from version 7 and something. If you get the spec from a previous version there's no prob.
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#107999 - HtheB - Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:47 pm
It is possible I think :)
Have a look at these 2 links please:
("Axe Feather" and "Tickle Girl")
PC Version:
http://www.axefeather.com/
DS Version:
http://dl.qj.net/TickleGirl-v1.0-Homebrew-Games-Nintendo-DS/pg/12/fid/568/catid/221
:)
#108013 - Lynx - Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:07 am
I don't know about Axe Feather, but Tickle Girl was a port, not running as an .swf
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#108130 - HtheB - Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:40 pm
| Lynx wrote: |
| I don't know about Axe Feather, but Tickle Girl was a port, not running as an .swf |
Tickle Girl is a port of Axe Feather :)
How did he port it? :P