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Help Wanted > looking for an engineering partner in crime... (nds)

#121187 - ner0 - Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:56 am

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3669/isoguysni3.gif

doing some preliminary prodding to see if i cant find an eager engineer to pair up with me in a progress-driven, self-motivated project for some homebrew nds action? I've got this idea that i feel is probably the best idea ive ever had for a game... and im looking to put together an ever-coalescing prototype. Im not expecting any interest, but it would be really awesome if theres an engineer out there whos been dying to work on a ds project with some refreshing visual style. It would help if games like tactics ogre, fft-a, earthbound or some similar games really excited and moved you, but id like to mention that my concept wasnt derived from playing/reading about someone else's game concept, it just happens to be that if youd like games such as the ones previously mentioned, youll most likely enjoy this concept even more.

Im really interested to work with an engineer who has new ideas about how isometric games should look/function. Although the entire bulk of the game is not fully isometric itself, it will be a fundamental part of the gameplay, and would be nice to offer something a little extra than what previous games have done.

This is a 2d project, and im fully down to incorporate plenty of 2.5d effects/ illusions, but im not equipped to make any 3d assets, sorry.

would love to work back and forth intimately with someone on this. I do games of a different variety professionally and have about 25 (optimally) extra hours a week to work on this. im obviously not looking for someone to be able to commit anything more than i do, im the type that understands that while game dev is a passion, we've all got lives that need our attention.

if you are at all interested in the prospect, id like to talk to you about what we can do to get things rolling together. please just respond to this post and ill get in contact with you if i can gleam such information from your profile, otherwise will pm you :).

thanks much for reading!

#121209 - PhoenixSoft - Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:48 am

Lots of artists come through game development forums with grand concepts (usually some kind of RPG or tactics game), trying to win over programmers.

Don't take it personally, but people aren't likely to believe that you do have the motivation to carry this through to the end unless you already have a lengthy game design document ready.

We really need this information to be placed in a sticky, as it keeps being repeated over and over again.

#121211 - sgeos - Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:59 am

PhoenixSoft wrote:
Don't take it personally, but people aren't likely to believe that you do have the motivation to carry this through to the end unless you already have a lengthy game design document ready.

Completed projects work just as well.

-Brendan

#122275 - ner0 - Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:59 am

im well aware of this phenom. the opposite also happens on art boards where engineers incessantly seek artists to be their 'whore slaves' or something and then all the artists there give them grief about this or that and stuff, and in the end you cant blame a guy for trying to find someone inspiring to work with.

Reason why im asking to work with someone even so early on in the concept phase is because i need to be able to ask someone who knows the hardware to ask them questions like "are we going to be restricted to just doing this same old approach to backgrounds on the nds as well? or can we use an approach where we use much larger texture like objects rather than tiles' kindof things. Im working on documentation on a high level, ultimately id need help from someone with more knowhow to work out the specifics to start getting into the nitty gritty TDD kindof things.

ive got a much more solid vision of where id like to take this concept since the time ive posted this. I do know that i have the will and drive to do things, i am able to also identify the stoppers that happen in projects which make people want to stop working on things, ive been able to evailuate my own habits and things as well which make me stop interest on a project.

Im working mainly on documentation and comps for the time being though, i realize that a simple sprite probably wont get people going, but perhaps full fledged screen sized comps will. I will have you know that i am doing both jobs which shows a good deal of commitment in its own right.

im still looking for someone with a good bit of knowledge of the hardware and who is enthusiastic about working on something that could be a pretty fun project. If your looking for proof of my ability to make games, i can tell you that i finished up a small commercial project, working basically in the same situation as i would be working on this project. the designer and lead artist (though i would have preferred a designer on the other project). The game looks pretty sweet for what it is too. if it were a hobby project id post all kinds of examples and stories... but its not, so i cant.

anyhow, id still really appreciate if anyone were to have any interest in helping. Ive got documentation started, ive got samples started, and i think that in terms of games out there even on the market, past or present, its not anything ive really ever seen before, yet would feel familiar enough not to seem completely alien. ill post some more art snippets soon :)

#122281 - HyperHacker - Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:10 am

I suggest learning about the hardware yourself. Make some simple demos using your own placeholder graphics. Then if you can't find an artist who knows the system, you can at least inform them of the constraints they'd be working within, and teach them about it.
_________________
I'm a PSP hacker now, but I still <3 DS.

#122286 - sgeos - Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:26 am

I link to your past project would be nice. Anyone here will be happy to answer hardware related questions for you. If you don't want to ask out in the open, feel free to send me private message.

-Brendan

#123225 - ner0 - Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:08 am

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/5457/previewtd8.gif

i can understand anyone's doubtfulness about ones character from an initial posting, it makes it actually quite intimidating to post a message on something that has become a lot more sensitive than it probably should be.

I _can_ understand the concept of 'prove your worthiness' in order to grasp interest though, and so i shall continue :].

Ill get some things out of the way though. While i understand and appreciate the necessity of documentation, i dont believe that it should be the end-all measurement of someones commitment to a project. some people arent as talented with them as they need to be to even make them at all effective, it is a learned skill. I do have documentation started, there is enough in concept to whittle down details of mechanics, of which i have a good conception of in my mind's eye. Spending all my time to have complete documentation seems slightly redundant for a project that isnt falling under the stress of corporate budgets and timelines as required by a business.

As for previous projects and/or experience, I work full time in the games industry for small res devices, im pretty well aware of the processes, the pitfalls, the points of anxiety and dread which usually hold things back. My latest project will be live on various wireless carriers in the US in the upcoming weeks (for anonymity's sake ill keep that undisclosed).

I am pretty serious about getting this up and running, and im largely aware that im going to need a strong bit of engineering to pull off all that id like to pull off. This would probably extend slightly beyond the platform itself, depending on the engineering solutions required. Im not really interested in hearing people tell me i need to read some faq to understand the fact that i clearly have no idea what im talking about because im a noob stepping into a deep ocean, im hoping to find someone who's clever, motivated, and really enjoys getting into a game, seeing the benefits of progress and results, and watch and see just exactly what two guys can really pull off, just like the console days of yore.

If you meet those requirements, im willing to fund hardware to help get our stuff up and running. Ideally id love to pay you 50$ an hour but when have you ever met a rich artist?

Id appreciate anyone's interest and would be honored to find a worthy partner to work with :).

thanks for reading again.

#123231 - sgeos - Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:50 am

ner0 wrote:
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/5457/previewtd8.gif

This looks amazing, for whatever that is worth.

ner0 wrote:
I _can_ understand the concept of 'prove your worthiness' in order to grasp interest though, and so i shall continue :].

I lot of unrealistic people have shown up in the past. Anyone serious will figure out a way to persuade people, even if it takes a while. Most of the unrealistic people don't stick around for very long.

ner0 wrote:
Ill get some things out of the way though. While i understand and appreciate the necessity of documentation, i dont believe that it should be the end-all measurement of someones commitment to a project.

No, but at the very least a potential helper needs to know the scope of the project.

Quote:
of which i have a good conception of in my mind's eye. Spending all my time to have complete documentation seems slightly redundant for a project that isnt falling under the stress of corporate budgets and timelines as required by a business.

At the very least, "what do you want me to do?" has to answered in fairly concrete terms. Although the stress of budgets and timelines doesn't exist, the stresses of real life do exist. Few projects really get off the ground and fewer still are completed. (People are flakey and weird; or at least they come across that way.)

Quote:
As for previous projects and/or experience, I work full time in the games industry for small res devices,

This is a good sign in so far as completing the project. It still doesn't answer "what do you want me to do?" Are you looking for an tactical engine that runs something FFTA or Tactics Ogre?

Quote:
I am pretty serious about getting this up and running, and im largely aware that im going to need a strong bit of engineering to pull off all that id like to pull off.

The big questions are "how much?" and "what do you want done?"

Quote:
If you meet those requirements, im willing to fund hardware to help get our stuff up and running.

This is a fair way to motivate people. I still don't think there is enough information on the table, although it does look interesting.

-Brendan

#123261 - ner0 - Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:13 pm

Thanks sgeos for helping this post gradually bend towards questions that most readers of this post might be asking themselves, ill try to clarify a few more things as youve brought up :).

I would like to clarify that i fully understand that documentation is completely necessary, and am looking to do as much of it as i can, and what i cant, ill make sure to find help to write on my behalf. I just didnt feel that having complete 100 page documentation on the game completed and on the table before asking for any help/partnership in development whatsoever is the best approach, hehe.

Also, theres no way i can post documentation in this thread (im sorry), while im not trying to be coy, im also not willing to just throw all my ideas out in the wind.

So what is expected of my partner in crime? First let me describe the traits of whom id like to work with. Someone who is eager, excited, motivated, who can envision a concept and help execute the vision, someone who sees this as working with me instead of for me (so id understand that liking the concept in general is pretty important for this, which is why its usually a good idea to get opinions from your partners before you go writing 100 pg documentation writ in stone tablets :) ).

Task wise, Im looking to create, as the mockup would suggest, a game with isometric perspective, that would play familiarly like such games as fft or tactics ogre as sgeos has mentioned. Obviously its not going to be anything close in concept to characters or concepts, i have something a bit different in mind for what units are and how they are played on the field. Im also hoping to achieve a lot of interactivity with the environment, which is something that many other similar games just dont offer, and i never understood why, as your tactics have as much to do with the environment as they do with your units strengths/weaknesses.

There is another aspect of gameplay that is more exploratory than tactical, and to prevent this turning into basically two different games, this environment is very limited in scope (to a single town, for instance), but will tie in directly with your battle performance and progression of the game. This will be displayed in more of a zelda-esque three quarter view, non isometric (birds eye), and exploration will be a bit more free. there will be basic actions that you can perform to navigate around this limited area.

I have yet to find a free map editor that exists for free that is more helpful than it is cumbersome, While i do have someone interested separate from the actual games development in engineering such a tool, hes swamped with grad school work and most likely wont have time for it any time soon, so im not expecting it. I would need to jointly come up with a solution for this with an engineer, determine if a custom tool is required for this, and execute accordingly. While i dont expect an engineer to be as excited about writing something like this, it would be extremely useful, nor would i hope to claim it as anything that should be used exclusively for this project (obviously this would mainly be the engineers tool, under their ownership, if one were to exist, they could do as they feel free to do with it).

This probably doesnt answer the "how big is this" question quite yet, and that is because im still working conceptually on quantitative subjects (how many units? how many battles? how many xxxx?" ill definitely be writing documentation on this once i am 100% confident on it.

If youre thinking 'well theres a lot he still needs to figure out', yes its true. I can tell you that its something i find more obsessive than anything, i mull on it on every free minute of the day that i have, from commuting to lifting, to showering, my mind goes over all the possibilities to make the best, strongest concept i can. that way when i get the free time to sit down, im not thinking 'duh, what to draw?'.

Id like to post more comp art as its made, so its ok if there is no one who wants to help quite at this point (although i always feel the sooner the better), im not giving up though.