#16442 - Onions - Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:27 pm
Hi,
I just signed up here to post for help on a GBA project I was wanting to start work on.
I am an artist/designer who has been working on games similar to what the GBA can offer (but on the PC) for over 2 years now. I've been freelancing my work for a little over 1 year now, and have worked on about 8 games and finished around 7. 3 of which have been picked up by publishers.
Currently I am wanting to work on something that's my own design. I'm very comfortable with 2D sprites so I thought the next best step would be to work on something larger, but still manageable. The GBA seems like the perfect fit for this. Both in learning and commercially.
The game is basically a strategy/beat em' up. An overall map where players try to conquer certain land by going into real time battles which can either be done in 2D with a quarter view perspective, or 3D with a behind the back perspective (if possible or practical). The theme for the game is kind of open at this point, as I'd like to see if the programmer has any preference, so as to be sure he/she would be interested. Personally, I was thinking of something "spooky" (funny/freaky monsters) or "anime" based (which may have possible overseas advantages). The design document is also coming together nicely and should be easy to complete from what I'm seeing now.
I think if I'm able to find a programmer as determined (and has the time) as much as myself, we can create a (complete) great game. I feel if everything turns out right that we'd for sure be able to find a publisher, especially if a game like this has...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005NPXX/qid=1076947295/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1_etk-vg/102-9233015-4717759?v=glance&s=videogames&n=468642
I've worked with a game development company (Blue Tea Games) that's worked closely with the publisher Word of Mouse Games, the developers of the above game, "Snood". I'm not saying that's even our best chance of getting published, but it seems like an open window to a degree and an example of what's capable of getting onto the GBA platform.
To see some of my work, please visit...
http://nickbusby.dcnhub.com
If interested please contact me at nickbusby@dcnhub.com
I am looking for a programmer who will be dedicated and willing to see a game project through. I have the time and energy to do so and have completed past games. I also work fast. So I would need someone who could keep up with me. Although I don't know everything that goes into programming, I think I'd be able to finish the type of game I'm wanting to create in about 2 months, more or less.
One last thing: The game will go under my dev team/company logo. I will also retain all rights to the game and it's idea. Profits (be it up front cash or royalties from a publisher) will be split 50/50. If a sound editor is needed, for music and/or sound effects, it would break down like 45/40-me, 45/40-programmer, 10/20-sound editor (depending on how much work is needed in that area). And anyone who works on the completed game should expect a position for future titles, unless he/she wishes to quit.
Thank you for your time and I appreciate any responses from those interested.
#16449 - poslundc - Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:14 pm
| Onions wrote: |
| I will also retain all rights to the game and it's idea. Profits (be it up front cash or royalties from a publisher) will be split 50/50. |
I think you may find that many programmers will take issue with this. I'm pretty sure I would.
Good luck,
Dan.
#16456 - Onions - Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:34 am
Since I am the one designing it and original creator, as well as going under a development team I'm heading, I think it's common sense that the rights would go to me. This is also how it's done in any and every situation I've seen. What it boils down to is the profits from the game, in which it is an even 50/50. I definitely see no reason for a complaint there, as most people acting as designer and another role get more than 50%.
#16457 - poslundc - Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:02 am
I understand where you're coming from, but there are a few things you might want to consider:
1. How much work will you be putting into "designing" it? From the sound of things, you aren't very familiar even with the capabilities of the GBA platform. Are you going to be able to produce a rigorously complete specification, requirements, and design document for a GBA game that the programmer can just go about implementing? To me, this smacks of the kind of project where you will be the "idea man" and it'll be the programmer's job to determine what can and cannot be done, what the functional requirements will be, etc.
2. It's easy to want to be a producer, but from what I can tell all you have is an idea and some artistic skills (with no clear evidence of pixelling skills, which are essential to handheld development). Leadership through an entire project requires more than what it seems you are currently bringing to the table, especially in terms of technical know-how. (You might have better luck as a facilitator for more of a community-oriented dev project.)
3. Why should you retain any rights to the code written? As far as tangible property for a game goes, the code is likely to be the most valuable part.
Again, you might find some coders who will take interest, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if you find your stipulations turn out to be too rigid.
Good luck in either case.
Dan.
#16465 - Sweex - Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:57 am
Without having read the entire post, I think creating games should be fun at the first place. I believe that you'll never be able to make a nice game without the love for it and the enjoyment of creating it.
Sure, people need to make a living and if you can by creating games then that's great, but it should not be the goal to make money. That way games will never be (seen) as an art form as they should imho.
Oh well, just my 2cts...
_________________
If everything fails, read the manual: If even that fails, post on forum!
#16470 - Onions - Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:37 pm
Alright, I'm getting tired of some of this.
First off, I know what's involved in making a game, I've done near a dozen for the PC over a two years time. I know how to do pixel art aswell, which I know is what would have to be done for the GBA. I've also done design documents, not just for smaller games either. Sure, I'll have to know what is capable of being done on the GBA, but all the programmer will be required to say is yes or no to the matter. (I've also done some programming myself, so I know what's involved and can relate to a certain degree)
I also have a GREAT passion for games. I only mention the payment part because that's what it seemed everyone was interested in or asked whenever I didn't provide details.
And about the rights to the game; I have the rights to the idea and to decide what to do with it, aswell as the art and representation. The programmer has his rights to whatever he programmed. I didn't even consider that. Whoever brings whatever to the project would keep their rights. But I don't need to have someone tied to one of my ideas for future projects if things didn't work out, or they wished to quit. So what ever code he makes is his, but I'm not that aware of "coding" rights, so whatever I design, the idea behind it (which I've created and thought up myself) would be mine. How the programmer wanted to implement it would be his. I assume this is how it goes.
Anyway. After seeing this here, it sickens me as to how I can't just make a freakin' game with someone. If I don't provide enough information, people complain, if I do, they still have something to nit-pick.
I know you all probably think you're posting to be helpful, but you obviously don't see or understand the position I'm in and where I'm coming from. I just want to make a finished game. If it's good enough to get published, that's fine, if not, as long as I have a finished game I'd be happy.
So all in all maybe this has shed some light on this topic. And for those who would like to work on such a project, please, e-mail me.
(And I'd just like to point out I don't like getting upset like this, but apparently I have to on some boards. The CG Talk board I've seen and been on has been the best and places like Gamedev the worse. This place isn't as bad as it, but obviously not as modded as CG Talk. I'm still trying to find a place such as it but for programmers mainly. This place seemed the ideal place, though, since it's specifically about GBA development, which I'm currently considering)
#16473 - poslundc - Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:21 pm
| Onions wrote: |
| First off, I know what's involved in making a game, I've done near a dozen for the PC over a two years time. |
That's terrific, but GBA games are almost a totally different ballfield from PC games. The considerations that must go into a game's design are completely foreign to the considerations of a PC game.
| Quote: |
| I know how to do pixel art aswell, which I know is what would have to be done for the GBA. |
I've taken a look at your portfolio and most of the artwork I've seen in your past games was by-and-large either scanned artwork or CG art, and not pixel art. Perhaps you would have better luck promoting your talents in this field if you put some samples of your pixel artwork up on your website.
| Quote: |
| I've also done design documents, not just for smaller games either. Sure, I'll have to know what is capable of being done on the GBA, but all the programmer will be required to say is yes or no to the matter. |
UI design is not a simple yes/no matter. You need to know how things are going to be laid out on the screen, their relative dimensions, colour consumption, how they will conform to the GBA's hardware limitations, how every possible game condition will respond to every possible button press, etc. You have to begin with that, then the progammer can start telling you yes/no.
| Quote: |
| And about the rights to the game; I have the rights to the idea and to decide what to do with it, aswell as the art and representation. The programmer has his rights to whatever he programmed. I didn't even consider that. |
Well, this is the thing: you say all you want to do is make a game, but practically the first words out of your mouth are in defence of your rights, with no thought given to the rights of those working on your team. This is not the kind of thing that inspires much confidence in a community dev project.
| Quote: |
I also have a GREAT passion for games. I only mention the payment part because that's what it seemed everyone was interested in or asked whenever I didn't provide details.
...
Anyway. After seeing this here, it sickens me as to how I can't just make a freakin' game with someone. If I don't provide enough information, people complain, if I do, they still have something to nit-pick. |
I'm sorry, but what are you basing these statements on? When else have you posted such a request on this board?
| Quote: |
| I know you all probably think you're posting to be helpful, but you obviously don't see or understand the position I'm in and where I'm coming from. I just want to make a finished game. If it's good enough to get published, that's fine, if not, as long as I have a finished game I'd be happy. |
Then why not drop all of the pretense and just ask for help making a game? All you really need to say is something like "if it ever gets to the publication stage, we can try to reach an equitable agreement on how to share the profits from it". And then be prepared to walk away from it if you can't reach a satisfactory agreement; at least you will still have your finished game, which is what you claim to want.
| Quote: |
| (And I'd just like to point out I don't like getting upset like this, but apparently I have to on some boards. The CG Talk board I've seen and been on has been the best and places like Gamedev the worse. This place isn't as bad as it, but obviously not as modded as CG Talk. |
There is absolutely no reason for you to get upset. I don't know how you expect to be able to lead a dev project if you get upset so needlessly. And our mods do a fine job; they just rarely have a need to intervene in any threads.
Dan.
#16476 - rooter - Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:36 pm
Getting upset with Dan is silly, he's bringing up some very valuable points and your reaction to his points would make me want to work with you even less were I interested. Address his points, realize that he's right and try to improve your plan as a result.
#16479 - Onions - Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:14 pm
People, look. Everyone can argue about a subject until the cows come home (taking word for word of a post, for example). Which I don't have near the time to do. But is this what this forum is suppose to be for, I ask you.
This forum is for "help wanted". Anyone interested about that should have replied. Not for opinions that were not asked for. Is that hard to understand? And that's why I'm tired of places such as Gamedev, which from seeing where this post on this board is going, this place seems almost the same.
And PC games ARE a lot like any other platform. Everything is made on a PC. You just then have to know the boundaries for what your working on.
So this will be my last post in regards to whatever has been previously stated. For those wanting to work on a project where someone is ready and willing to complete something, please feel free to e-mail.
#16481 - Miked0801 - Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:41 pm
This is not a flame, but hopefully some help to you. Please do not be offended by what I write. I am not attackign you :)
| Quote: |
And PC games ARE a lot like any other platform. Everything is made on a PC. You just then have to know the boundaries for what your working on.
|
While you are correct in saying that everything is made on a PC, I can say from both self experience and working with PC people attempting to make the jump that PC programming is nothing like Console/Handheld programming.
A few points:
On a PC, there tends to be an attitude that the machine needs to run well with any code you write. If it slows down, it must be the PCs fault.
On a Console when you find code that doesn't run well (or at all), you don't have this luxury. Quite often, a slow down on a PC is a hardcrash on Console due to lack of virtual memory.
On a PC, it's all about writing code that runs on as many permutations of user hardware as possible.
On a Console, all the hardware's the same (but the software dev tools are much, much worse.)
On a PC, dev tends to be the bottle necks as the Art tools are very well developed and the system can handle just about any sort of file you throw at it.
On a Console, art tends to bottle-neck due to the amount of time it takes to create art that even looks OK on target.
Finally, on a PC it's much easier to get good sound/music to play as the tools creating the music are the same playing them on target.
On a console, music/sound is much harder to generate and takes a lot of skill to get to sound decent. Even then you often need to trade sound quality for frame-rate. You are going to have a real hard time finding a sound person with the "We'll get sound working as an after-tought" mentality.
I could go on, but as you stated, this isn't the place for this religous war. Needless to say, I believe you need to take a closer look at console development.
#16484 - poslundc - Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:36 pm
| Onions wrote: |
| This forum is for "help wanted". Anyone interested about that should have replied. Not for opinions that were not asked for. Is that hard to understand? And that's why I'm tired of places such as Gamedev, which from seeing where this post on this board is going, this place seems almost the same. |
Onions, I don't understand where all of your animosity is coming from. This is a discussion forum; people respond to posts. I haven't been trying to pick a fight with you. All I did was try to offer you some advice on how you might be more likely to recruit people from this forum.
As for picking your post apart "word for word", I'm simply trying to be as specific in my responses as possible to what you have said.
If you want to start a new thread for your advert with a message that says "please don't respond to this message with any advice on making my idea more compatible with the community; only respond if you want to help out with the project, which should mean no responses on this forum anyway, since I asked for responses through e-mail" then feel free to. I don't think you will impress anyone with your open-minded leadership style by doing so, however.
| Quote: |
| And PC games ARE a lot like any other platform. Everything is made on a PC. You just then have to know the boundaries for what your working on. |
<blink, blink> I don't know where to begin telling you what's wrong with that statement. Except to say that Mike's comments on it are really only the tip of the iceberg (and he knows it).
| Quote: |
| So this will be my last post in regards to whatever has been previously stated. For those wanting to work on a project where someone is ready and willing to complete something, please feel free to e-mail. |
Have you found any takers? I'm not trying to be mean here, but I don't seem to be getting through to you any other way. There are some very talented and experienced GBA coders in this forum, many of them very interested in doing community dev stuff, and I wouldn't be surprised if you've managed to alienate the majority of them with your attitude. I think at this point your most likely response will be from someone who's never actually programmed for the GBA before, but is "willing to learn". So I will simply wish you the best of luck with that person.
Dan.