#27802 - Big Blue Bubble - Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:43 pm
Big Blue Bubble Inc. is currently looking for a Nintendo DS programmer for work on high profile DS title.
Requirements:
? 3+ years game development experience
? Fluent in C and C++
? Strong problem solving ability
? console game development experience (GBA at least)
? Degree in Computer Science or Software Engineering
? Strong background in OOP
? Strong background in 3D math and physics
? A passion for making games
Please send resumes as well as salary expectations to jobs@bigbluebubble.com If you don't have required experience or you cannot move to London, Ontario , please don't respond. This is a full time position, we are NOT looking for contractors.
#27807 - tepples - Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:26 pm
Where does one get the 3+ years experience if not with you?
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#27812 - isildur - Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:37 pm
That's always a problem. Game companies always ask for previous experience in another game company. How can you get that experience? Sometimes by starting at a lower salary. I often heard of game comapnies that hire young people just out of university so they can pay them a lot less. If you still live at your parents, it is not a big sacrifice to get you in the game business but when you are older and already have a family and house, you just can't cut down on salary.
But, I guess you can still convince a company to hire you by showing your homebrew game development, but it better be good ;-)
#27815 - Abscissa - Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:09 pm
| isildur wrote: |
That's always a problem. Game companies always ask for previous experience in another game company. How can you get that experience? Sometimes by starting at a lower salary. I often heard of game comapnies that hire young people just out of university so they can pay them a lot less. If you still live at your parents, it is not a big sacrifice to get you in the game business but when you are older and already have a family and house, you just can't cut down on salary.
But, I guess you can still convince a company to hire you by showing your homebrew game development, but it better be good ;-) |
Well, sometimes they say "game development experience", and sometimes they say "professional game development experience". Unless it's a typo I don't think "game development experience" usually expects a commercial game. Usually when they excpect that they'll also specify "x number of shipped titles". Plus if you do the standard foot-in-the-door job of QA Tester, they're not gong to be all that strict about pro-titles if they can already see you have the skills.
Last edited by Abscissa on Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
#27816 - poslundc - Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:09 pm
| Quote: |
| That's always a problem. Game companies always ask for previous experience in another game company. How can you get that experience? Sometimes by starting at a lower salary. I often heard of game comapnies that hire young people just out of university so they can pay them a lot less. |
I spoke with this company at one point earlier in the year; IIRC they were considering me for in the neighbourhood of 35K CDN. That's not exactly below the poverty line, but it's not an awful lot to live on in London (about 32% income tax) and I didn't consider it to be reasonable for someone with a professional engineering degree and my level of experience with the GBA. I wasn't impressed when I was fed the line that "we want people who are passionate about games, not money". I believe you can be passionate without being a starving artist.
Now I work in IT and make 50K USD... I'd still very much like to get back into games someday but it won't be for less than a living wage. :P
Dan.
#27821 - Big Blue Bubble - Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:30 pm
Just to clarify few things. For this particular position we are looking for someone with industry experience. We don't ask for industry experience all the time - last 4 programmers we hired strict from the university.
And Dan, regardless if your salary offered for STARTING at BBB was adequate or not (for someone with your experience I consider it more than fair), $50K in NYC in IT is just plain silly. We just got one programmer from NYC and he can't believe this. I really admire you if you can live with that. Maybe underestimated your skills after all :)
I mean seriously, do you consider US$50K in NYC to be more than CAN$ 35K in London, ON ?
#27827 - Miked0801 - Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:03 pm
Was that strictly necessary? As a profesional company, a slam like this is below you. Yes, Dan probably shouldn't have disclosed salary terms, but your response back reflects badly on your company. Come on guys.
#27828 - poslundc - Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:12 pm
| Big Blue Bubble wrote: |
| I mean seriously, do you consider US$50K in NYC to be more than CAN$ 35K in London, ON ? |
Believe me, I did the math several times over. I do, and it is. And that's not including the exchange rate I get whenever I go back to Canada. :D
Dan.
#27831 - poslundc - Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:37 pm
| Miked0801 wrote: |
| Was that strictly necessary? As a profesional company, a slam like this is below you. Yes, Dan probably shouldn't have disclosed salary terms, but your response back reflects badly on your company. Come on guys. |
I don't mind the response; he has every right to defend his reputation...
As for the disclosing of salary terms, none of this was from any sort of official negotiation related to a concrete offer or anything; just initial talk about salary expectations. (I should clarify that when I say I was being "considered" that I meant that is the salary range I was "considered" to fall into, not an actual offer that was being tendered.) If it still troubles you, well, then it's your taboo, not mine.
Besides, if it's more than fair then he has nothing to be embarrassed about. ;)
Dan.
#27837 - Big Blue Bubble - Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:49 pm
| Miked0801 wrote: |
| Was that strictly necessary? As a profesional company, a slam like this is below you. Yes, Dan probably shouldn't have disclosed salary terms, but your response back reflects badly on your company. Come on guys. |
Slam ? What are you talking about ? I just stated my opinion that he should be making more in NYC. Same way Dan tought he should be makin more in BBB.
#27838 - keldon - Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:19 am
But aren't the living costs of Ontoro so low you can sell your car and buy a house =D I know someone who worked for 3 years in England to do IT for ?30'000 a year and went back to buy a mansion with 6-12 Acres of land or something like that. Even if he had saved every penny he would have been lucky to find a 3 bedroom house with a garden in England.
#27860 - poslundc - Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:59 pm
| keldon wrote: |
| But aren't the living costs of Ontoro so low you can sell your car and buy a house =D I know someone who worked for 3 years in England to do IT for ?30'000 a year and went back to buy a mansion with 6-12 Acres of land or something like that. |
Yes, and it only ever snows on Christmas eve and the streets are lined with pretty women giving away free X-Boxes. :P
Dan.
#27863 - cocole - Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:55 pm
| poslundc wrote: |
| Yes, and it only ever snows on Christmas eve and the streets are lined with pretty women giving away free X-Boxes. :P |
Free blowjobs would have been ever better, but not in the streets ;)
poslundc is right, Canada is no third world country.
#27869 - nmcconnell - Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:57 pm
I think that the cost of living changes a lot according to what you're spending your money on. Property scales pretty dramatically between london ontario and NYC. Other costs - food, xbox, etc. are probably going to be fairly similar in price. So if you're willing to live in a one bedroom apartment or share a house with two other people, then new york for 50K USD would leave you with a lot more luxury money then 35K Canadian in London. If, on the other hand, you feel the need to buy a detached house near downtown, London would pretty certainly be the safer bet.
If you really want low property values, move to small town saskatchewan.
Anyway, I'm kind of bummed that they want industry experience. I accidentally schlepped into multimedia five years ago, and am trying to get out, but it seems like there's an overabundance of experienced professionals on the market. I haven't even been able to find a company to abuse me for a year so I can put in my time.
Do employers ever consider demos to be interchangeable for industry experience?
#27875 - Big Blue Bubble - Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:40 pm
Exactly, this is the main issue. House I bought here for $250K would cost me $400K in Toronto and probably over a milion in NYC. Not to mention taxes, car insurrance, etc.
Programmer from NYC I mentioned earlier was paying US$2200/month for a one bedroom apartment. Here is paying CAN$650 for a 3 times bigger one.
I am not saying that NYC doesn't have any advantages; it's really up to the person.
And finally... demos can be considered game programming experince, but not industry experience. We do loking for another entry level programmer though, check our site.
#27880 - poslundc - Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:02 pm
| Big Blue Bubble wrote: |
Exactly, this is the main issue. House I bought here for $250K would cost me $400K in Toronto and probably over a milion in NYC. Not to mention taxes, car insurrance, etc.
Programmer from NYC I mentioned earlier was paying US$2200/month for a one bedroom apartment. Here is paying CAN$650 for a 3 times bigger one.
I am not saying that NYC doesn't have any advantages; it's really up to the person. |
If you live in Manhattan then $2200 will get you a very nice place; it's still much more than what most people pay for the privilege of living there. I live in Queens and pay $1200/month for my apartment; it is VERY nice, and a place like it would probably cost more than twice as much in Manhattan. The express subway to work is about 30 minutes, which is actually the same time it takes from many other areas in Manhattan as well. So I am quite happy to live there.
There are other cost-of-living considerations as well; for example I have absolutely no need to own a car in NYC and can rely on public transportation 24/7 for all of my needs. I would have found it a lot more difficult to live without the convenience of a car in a city like London. And cars are bottomless vortexes for sucking up money.
Dan.
#27882 - Miked0801 - Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:45 pm
It seems I insulted everyone one at once. Sorry all. :)
Agreed on cars. Seattle is land of grid-lock with no good public transporation so we are forced to eat it. Houses are getting on out control as well. Luckily I bought early and made some money. Rent for a 1 bedroom goes from $600 to $1500 depending on how close to Seattle/Redmond you wish to live.
#28529 - Andrew Kesterson - Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:27 am
Might I remind one that a headhunter's job is to find the heads, not to get into shouting matches with them... Not very professional.
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