#6425 - waycomp2002 - Sun May 25, 2003 6:49 am
Is Dragon Basic any good? it's suppose to be for gameboy advanced programing.
#6429 - Daedro - Sun May 25, 2003 10:26 am
It looked nice from the demo. I found it very easy to code, even easier than using devkitadv with a tutorial. I personally wouldn't use it becuase I would rather learn real commands and not the simplified ones. Not ot mention the fifty dollars it costs. I would stick to Devkit and a few other misc programs. I am just assuming you would originally be using Devkit.
#6451 - waycomp2002 - Mon May 26, 2003 6:39 am
I'm new at c and asm coding but have used differant versions of basic including darkbasic. I thought dragon basic might make things easier for me. Do you know if you can use darkbasic to make gba roms? Anyway I'll try c but asm sounds verry difficult to me.
#6453 - Daniel Andersen - Mon May 26, 2003 8:58 am
I haven't tried Dragons Basic, but if you're new at coding I think that it is a very good idea starting with a Basic programming language; it is often very difficult for beginners learning a language like C, not to mention assembly.
#6462 - niltsair - Mon May 26, 2003 1:45 pm
True, but i think C/C++ is what you'll end up using at some time and there's some good tutorial for it. Actually most of the tutorials use C/C++.
Haven't seen DragonBasic, but I wonder about the flexibility and easy access the GBA specifics feature it offer comapred to C/C++.
#6467 - jenswa - Mon May 26, 2003 6:27 pm
Well i think dragonbasic is nice to start with,
but you probably go for the free version of ham,
although i never compared them, ham seems a little
more flexible to me.
Anywayz i am using devkitadvance, which is quite nice.
And sooner or later you will need that c/c++ code.
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#6479 - Daedro - Tue May 27, 2003 12:38 am
Definetly, I would think that Dragon basic wouldn't have as much features and flexibility as C/C++ because its simpler, but they assured me it is as capable as using the original langauge. The commands are listed here: http://www.simforth.com/docs.htm
Here if you want some more information, heres some questions I asked before I started gba programming:
| Quote: |
Eric wrote:
What if there is the command to make a tile unpassable.. like walls. I want like tile 8 to be unpassable. Is there a command or something?
Reply:
You'd have to program that in yourself. Typically you'd get input from the player to see which direction they were trying to move in then check the tilemap to see if there's a solid wall at the intended position... if so, don't let them move.
Eric wrote:
Also, is there a list of commands for the program if I register it? becuase I want more commands than that included in the 9 tutorials.
Reply:
There used to be a very useful by-category command list up at Simforth but it's been replaced by this...
http://www.simforth.com/docs.htm
Eric wrote:
And last thing, is Dragon Basic as capable ( I know less complex and has to use ) but can it do everything HAM can do.. or how capable is it to just scratch coding? in percent.
Reply:
That would be a meaningless figure, but everything is in place to allow you to prototype game ideas in DBASIC. That said, it's still work-in-progress so is missing any kind of mod support and alpha commands are also absent. Arrays are monodimensional and types aren't in yet, and I think that more string manipulation commands are due... but it's still rather capable, as you can probably tell.
Eric wrote:
I want to do 3d map, like on golden sun.. close to the way golden sun/2 is like. Is it good enough to do 3d fast enough, and all the above?
Reply:
Isometric tiles should be easy but any genuine 3D calculations programmed in BASIC are going to be comparatively slow. There's been talk of a ray-casting engine, although how flexible that would end up being I don't know (not to mention its ETA is possibly distant)... best to hope that Jeff pops by to calrify where he stands on polygon pushing via DBASIC.
Eric wrote:
P.S. For the mean time, whats another program thats close to Dragon Basic that allows more than 32k max creation until I register Dragon Basic?
Reply:
HAM. Hope you like makefiles. |
But I agree, eventually you will be programming with C/C++ and it isn't too much harder to learn so why risk learning dragonbasic when you cant use it for anything else and it is still "work-in-progress" and possible not as advanced as devkit and c. I am still unsure if it uses c too, like devkit and c, it may be dragonbasic and c.. but still devkit is more developed and uses more of the original c programming as dragonbasic just compiles codes into one command, when you need to learn that compiled code in the end.
I personally hated HAM.. mostly becuase of the makefiles, but also becuase it uses more of its own commands like dragonbasic.. I want to learn C, I dont want a side langauge. Thats just how I personally would like it, go for some programming job and tell them you know HAM... cant see that being better on an application than C++, not to mention knowing C would be useful since you can create programs and dont they teach C++ in some colleges, this could be useful experience to have free time for other projects or.. I guess this only applies to those under 17 years old.
Anyway, enough information on dragonbasic and other programming to make a decision.
Eric Muyser
#6485 - Daniel Andersen - Tue May 27, 2003 10:09 am
I still disagree on the choice of C/C++ as a beginners language; C was developed to be a complex high-level language in which the programmer could still take advantage of low-level accesses, and therefore, I think, C is NOT a good place to start programming. The beginner need NOT complex structures and low-level access until later; there is much, much features to explore in Basic languages and many games to be made before beginning on the hacks C introduces! ;-)
When discussing this topic, I like to compare with the good old Amiga times (and C-64 for that sake). Remember Amos by Francios Lionet; it was excatly this Basic program which was a great part of the success of the Amiga. By introducing a simple Basic language, suddently all people very able to make games for the Amiga, also beginners who haven't ever programmed before.
And now I can't keep it secret anymore: I'm currently developing a huge programming environment featuring my own Basic and project environment including editors and much, much more, making it almost too easy for beginners to create stunning games for the GBA! (he-he) And best of all: it's free! :-)
But it will take a few months before it's finnished because of exams. :(
#6489 - jenswa - Tue May 27, 2003 7:18 pm
I would like to disagree on that,
since I started with the c/c++ language and it wasn't so hard
as you said, but probably i had some good tutorials and
some beter programming background,
although all i had was flash actionscript.
But i think a basic language would be more easy to step in.
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#6507 - Daedro - Wed May 28, 2003 12:48 am
I did not take previous programming experience into account. I personally have learned HTML (obviously,) and PHP with some Perl. I suggest if your making a website and also making a gameboy advanced game try to intertwine some PHP coding into it as any experience in PHP will definetly help towards C. I would say do Perl as it more advanced and closer to C, but you do want basic and Perl is a little more advanced in style and slower. If your planning on learning ASM, I suggest Perl, ASM sounds to be like Perl sometimes.
I still stick by learning C or C++ first other than a modified version, even if you havent learned any previous langauges other than HTML ( if you concider that a langauge. ) Maybe I don't know what I am talking about, correct me if I am wrong as I still do not know much C or C++.. I didnt think of that before, but C++ seems a little less touchy than C.
#6508 - waycomp2002 - Wed May 28, 2003 1:54 am
Can you use darkbasic to program for gba? if so where can I find turoials fo doing so?
I'm about ready to choose a laungage but I'm more famillair with qbasic gwbasic and applesoft basic which won't help at all!
#6517 - Quirky - Wed May 28, 2003 7:40 am
I played about with an early version of Dragon Basic and... well, I missed my ; and {} Though it was very easy to get tiles, sprites, etc to appear on the screen.
One bad point is that to do anything with the GBA hardware you need to POKE memory addresses. Hardly easier than C's REG_XXX = value; And not having structures, which may or may not have been added by now, makes programming very awkward and difficult to follow (IMO). The best part about DB is that you can load graphics and wav files almost directly without converting them. Though once you know how to load "bitmaps" in C, and how to get make to do most of the work, the difference isn't that great.
I think an important thing to consider is why you want to program for the GBA. If it's just to prototype ideas for mini-games, then you'd be better off using Blitz Basic on the PC. A lot easier than Dragon Basic and cheaper too. Once you have the game in place, try converting it to the GBA.... And if you want to make GBA games, I think learning C or C++ (and learning to use the compiler and build tools too) will give you much more satisfying results. At least then you know mistakes/bugs are all your own making :)
#6520 - Daniel Andersen - Wed May 28, 2003 8:45 am
I think it also depends on your age; if you're 10 years old - which was the age in which I began on the C-64 - I think a Basic (mabey not Dragons Basic?) is THE choice, hiding all naughty details. But if you are, say, 15 or older you might have no trouble learning C.
So I think it is important to consider both age and what it is to be used for, for example is it just to make small and fun games or is it to make greater games or demos.
#6559 - Daedro - Thu May 29, 2003 12:20 am
Yeah, age would definetly be a consideration for some people. I was 11 when I learned HTML, 13 when I learned PHP, and 16 when I am learning C/C++
I am personally finding it harder to learn to program for gameboy advance since I dont know C, I am just learning it as I program. It may be better to actually program real C unaltered or read a book on it, which I am getting around to when I collect sixty dollars. Maybe find an eBook on C++ programming if your strapped on cash or of course tutorials, but books explain what the symbols and variables, etc mean.
#6835 - Ampersand - Tue Jun 03, 2003 10:08 am
Allthough many people may disagree with me,
I think ASM is easier that C/C++ or BASIC, because once you know the hardware and CPU there are only 25 instructions and some conditions on which the instructions are executed or not. You can easily make structures and macro's.
Also goldroad asm is a single binary so you don't end up in a heap of files like with all other development tools.
Ampersand.
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#6836 - Ampersand - Tue Jun 03, 2003 10:09 am
Allthough many people may disagree with me,
I think ASM is easier that C/C++ or BASIC, because once you know the hardware and CPU there are only 25 instructions and some conditions on which the instructions are executed or not. You can easily make structures and macro's.
Also goldroad asm is a single binary so you don't end up in a heap of files like with all other development tools.
Ampersand.
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#7443 - yaustar - Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:00 am
IMO Basic would be whole lot easier to learn if you are new to programming, once you have learnt the basic prinicples of coding, then C/C++ would be more flexable and also the most commobn language used in the industry (correct me if I am wrong).
For the reocrd, I am using VC++ with DevKitAdv with The Pern Project, GBA Junkie and Down to You tutorials....see http://www.gbadev.org. And havent had any trouble yet
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#7562 - Ninja - Thu Jun 19, 2003 8:46 pm
C++ was my first programming language, and I didnt' find it that hard to learn, but I did learn it when I was 20 years old... Yeah, I am a late starter, but I am trying to make up for lost time.
#7578 - Daniel Andersen - Fri Jun 20, 2003 9:33 am
I started programming at the age of 11, I think. This was on the great Commodore 64 which had an built-in Basic language, but if I were to start programming C++ I think I would never had made it!
Basic languages are... basic, and therefore a good place to start, especially for youngsters. Then, when getting better, one could move on to C++, for instance.