#93778 - sgeos - Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:15 am
I'm still playing around with the idea of a super low spec game. I'm thinking:
A) No real graphics, only 8 by 8 solid blocks of pixels.
B) 10 color palette (rgb, cym, black, white, grey, transparency)
C) 4 sound effects
D) 4 bgms
E) No text
Assuming a side scroller, the sound effects that come to mind are:
A) jump
B) attack
C) collect power up
D) take damage
Although it seem that they might be too player centric.
I'm thinking that heart beat style BGMs would neat:
A) Up Beat (Active Area)
B) Down Beat (Vacant/Depressed Area)
C) Steady Beat (High Tension Area)
D) Techno Beat (Ending, why not?)
The maps are cell based and have a couple properties that apply to the entire map:
A) Gravity (X, Y)
B) Health Update (Damage/Healing)
Individual cells have multiple properties:
A) Auto Movement (X, Y)
B) Health Update (Damage/Healing)
C) Solid Flags (None/All/PC/NPC/Enemy)
D) One Way Movement Flags (N, E, S, W)
E) Breakability
F) Spawn ID (Item/Monster/Map Jump/Other)
Maps have 2 layers. One layer over the player, one layer under the player. Each cell contains a solid color block (see palette). As far as the engine is concerned, the display and the cell properties are unrelated, so invisible bridges, secret passages, etc can be made.
-Brendan
#93783 - christosterone - Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:36 am
sounds like a cool template... is there a question or anything we should be answering in there?
-chris
#93823 - sgeos - Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:53 pm
Questions? Not really. I figured I'd post it here just in case the idea is really stupid. =) As usual, any feedback is good.
Given the simple requirements, there are probably 1000 valid ways to complete something like this.
Should I write this as a template? I had not considered that.
I'll post in help wanted when/if this officially gets started.
-Brendan
#93872 - MrD - Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:35 pm
Not stupid. It's not really much of a step down from things like Manic Miner.
Edit - Or even better: You've kind of defined ZZT.
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#93983 - sgeos - Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:10 am
ZZT allows ASCII. Maniac miner has animations and graphics. Putting arbitrary limitations on can force on to be more creative. If this is completed, maybe I'll make a black/white/transparency game with animations and sound effects. =)
Assuming I want to maximize my audiance, what should this be written in and written for? I'm "good" at C and Actionscript (Flash), but C++ and Java also seem really good choices. I want to describe the inner workings in a language independant way. If that happens, then what it is written in is sort of secondary.
The GBA and NDS seem like incredibly poor first targets, for various reasons. Either a PC binary, Flash executable or Java Applet seems like the way to go.
-Brendan
#94077 - Dwedit - Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:08 pm
Flash is horrible with any kind of scrolling or drawing that isn't based on moving a small number of objects around a stage. In my experience, QBasic is 100 times faster than flash.
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#94105 - keldon - Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:12 am
| Dwedit wrote: |
| Flash is horrible with any kind of scrolling or drawing that isn't based on moving a small number of objects around a stage. In my experience, QBasic is 100 times faster than flash. |
For the spec I doubt that flash would give any problems.
#94120 - tepples - Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:15 am
| Dwedit wrote: |
| In my experience, QBasic is 100 times faster than flash. |
But it's also 100 times easier to run a Macromedia Flash program on a random web kiosk than a QBasic program. Or is there a QBasic interpreter applet?
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#94141 - keldon - Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:48 am
The only qbasic I can find on the net compiles to an executable.
#94159 - MrD - Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:28 pm
Write a hopelessly buggy Java applet.
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#94162 - keldon - Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:50 pm
That's a great game. But why do java applets have to be hopelessly buggy?
EDIT: that game needs a score metric.
#94171 - keldon - Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:04 pm
Wait, no, I've just come up with some amazing add ons to the gameplay of that game to make it TRULY GREAT. Add a style system where you can perform additional tricks if you dare, such as going inside and outside a circle , and reward the player with even more points if they go around 2 points at a time, etc.
Also increase the difficulty later with (slowly) rotating circles etc.
#94225 - christosterone - Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:44 pm
| sgeos wrote: |
Should I write this as a template? I had not considered that.
-Brendan |
yes i believe you could make a template or library for this sort of thing. that way multiple games could come from this. maybe create a set of classes for the objects, a graphics renderer, a physics machine, who knows
if you wrote it in a format which is event driven, it would be truly powerful (events that the game engine would call when there is a collision, damage taken, etc)
ex.
| Code: |
Engine e = new Engine();
e.addCollisionListener( *Collision );
void Collision( Object a, Object b )
{
]
|
or something
#94623 - sgeos - Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:12 pm
| keldon wrote: |
| For the spec I doubt that flash would give any problems. |
It might on an old computer.
| christosterone wrote: |
| yes i believe you could make a template or library for this sort of thing. |
Sure. V1.0 probably won't support animation.
| christosterone wrote: |
| that way multiple games could come from this. maybe create a set of classes for the objects, a graphics renderer, a physics machine, who knows |
OO. That means no vanilla C. Do you think Java, Flash or C++ would be the best target?
Java = Web, Cell Phones
Flash = Web, Portability (Java failed compile once run anywhere)
C++ = PC, basically any mid spec device
If I feel like taking my time, I could spec the whole library/API and worry about a language later. (Or let other people worry about implementing the API.) It would be kind of cool to have an open platform game API implented in various languages. Does anything like this exist? (It would work for an RPG field map as well. Just think no gravity.)
| christosterone wrote: |
| if you wrote it in a format which is event driven, it would be truly powerful (events that the game engine would call when there is a collision, damage taken, etc) |
The class hierarchy will look something like this:
| Code: |
interface iCritter
class Critter implements iCritter
class NPC extends Critter
class PC extends Critter |
The engine will handle critters. It won't care if they are PCs or NPCs or GhostCritters or whatever.
Would adding things like the below to iCritter meet your requirements? The engine would call them when appropriate.
| Code: |
public function didCollide(params)
public function didTakeDamage(params)
public function didDie(params) |
-Brendan
#94694 - keldon - Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:58 pm
There are ways for java to compile one and work for all platforms. It just takes a little getting used to. There are different ways of dealing with files and their locations for a start, but we were able to make our projects platform independant, albeit slow on macs for some reason!!!
#94723 - tepples - Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:25 pm
No Flash please. A lot of us can't afford its exorbitant price tag.
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#94756 - christosterone - Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:28 am
although java would be (i believe) the easiest for setting up something like that, java suckzors at working on applets. I wrote an entire zelda ripoff game as an applet and literally nobody could play it.
incompatability drove me to insanity.
dont do what i did; DONT WASTE YOUR TIME WITH JAVA APPLETS.
if you want it web-based do it in flash
otherwise make it for the gba or DS or something
-chris
#94771 - tepples - Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:30 am
| christosterone wrote: |
| if you want it web-based do it in flash |
Do you know of any decent SWF authoring tools other than Macromedia brand Flash brand software, preferably less expensive?
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#94795 - christosterone - Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:10 am
no i dont actually, but i know that anything is better than trying to get anybody to view an applet.
plus.... somebody could pirate software (im not advocating the piracy of software)
why doesnt he just code it in C for the gba again?
#94824 - keldon - Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:03 am
| christosterone wrote: |
no i dont actually, but i know that anything is better than trying to get anybody to view an applet.
plus.... somebody could pirate software (im not advocating the piracy of software)
why doesnt he just code it in C for the gba again? |
You just have to find out what works on all platforms. There might even be webpages about this, but we got our java applets to work on everything. But then a lot of the other groups had serious problems and had to run their projects on whatever platform they made it on ... via eclipse. What a shame.
#94825 - keldon - Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:07 am
| keldon wrote: |
| christosterone wrote: | no i dont actually, but i know that anything is better than trying to get anybody to view an applet.
plus.... somebody could pirate software (im not advocating the piracy of software)
why doesnt he just code it in C for the gba again? |
You just have to find out what works on all platforms. There might even be webpages about this, but we got our java applets to work on everything. But then a lot of the other groups had serious problems and had to run their projects on whatever platform they made it on ... via eclipse. What a shame. |
And these guys have it nailed. Beware, they are going through a transition at the moment to I can't vouch for this, but they had a very speedy app working cross platform,browser blah blah blee blee.
#94870 - MrD - Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:34 pm
Hey keldon, did you receive it?
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#94896 - keldon - Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:40 pm
| MrD wrote: |
| Hey keldon, did you receive it? |
Yes thanks, sorry I didn't respond. After downloading eclipse I realized we didn't have JVM on the machine at work. After which I found we only had 128MB RAM. Might get started on it next saturday 'cause our summer program is going to start next week :(
#94909 - ScottLininger - Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:36 pm
Okay, at the risk of being scolded by tepples, I'm going to throw my hat into the Flash ring. ;)
Yeah, it's expensive, but it's also an incredibly marketable skill. I know a lot of people who make $100+ an hour doing high-end flash work. So if you're at all interested in a multimedia or web dev career, the Flash price tag is well worth it. And once you pay for the 1st license, the upgrades aren't as painful.
As for game development, Flash is a kickin' platform. Very easy to learn, very expandable, and very powerful out of the box. Plus, there are dozens of games sites that will host your game and expose you to a large audience.
-Scott
#94931 - keldon - Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:37 pm
| ScottLininger wrote: |
Okay, at the risk of being scolded by tepples, I'm going to throw my hat into the Flash ring. ;)
Yeah, it's expensive, but it's also an incredibly marketable skill. I know a lot of people who make $100+ an hour doing high-end flash work. So if you're at all interested in a multimedia or web dev career, the Flash price tag is well worth it. And once you pay for the 1st license, the upgrades aren't as painful.
As for game development, Flash is a kickin' platform. Very easy to learn, very expandable, and very powerful out of the box. Plus, there are dozens of games sites that will host your game and expose you to a large audience.
-Scott |
Flash is dominating the gaming scene. All kids do in our youth clubs, internet caf?s and school libraries is play flash games. They probably play it more than their gameboys.
#95022 - Optihut - Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:45 am
| keldon wrote: |
| Flash is dominating the gaming scene. All kids do in our youth clubs, internet caf?s and school libraries is play flash games. They probably play it more than their gameboys. |
Odd. I don't recall playing a flashgame - maybe I did, but not to any significant extend. Currently the games on my computer are javabloodbowl, starcraft, master of Orion 2 and Enemy Territory.
#95042 - keldon - Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:53 pm
| Optihut wrote: |
| keldon wrote: | | Flash is dominating the gaming scene. All kids do in our youth clubs, internet caf?s and school libraries is play flash games. They probably play it more than their gameboys. |
Odd. I don't recall playing a flashgame - maybe I did, but not to any significant extend. Currently the games on my computer are javabloodbowl, starcraft, master of Orion 2 and Enemy Territory. |
It all depends on your location, culture, internet access, etc. In london at least, it is dominating all gaming big time. That and runescape.
#95197 - sgeos - Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:28 am
All the Korean kids around here do is play Flash games. Kids can't hold jobs and hence have no money. Flash games are free.
As far as the price of Flash goes, if you really want it $700 is not a big deal. Flash Pro 8.0 is $699. Studio 8.0 is $999. If you don't have to pay rent, and you pocket $5 an hour, you'll have enough to by Flash in 4 weeks, and Studio in a under 6 weeks.
35hr/wk * $5/hr = $175/wk
$700 / $175/wk = 4wk (20 work days)
$1000 / $175/wk = 5.714wk (28.571 work days)
Writing in C for the GBA limits the user base to flash carts and emulators. (Unless there is a way to append the ROM to end of an auto launching emulator.) Not many people own flash carts. "Regular users" don't want to have to learn how to launch a ROM from an emulator. To the extent I'm writing something niche, I want to maximize the audiance. I may be wrong, but I don't think that the niche for "block's adventure" is accurately described as GBA homebrewers.
If/when this is finished, I want to print 1000 CDs and see if they can be sold. (Given a niche product, assuming it is worth buying in the first place, 1000 units is reasonable.) GBA complicates things.
Ideally I'm looking for something cross platform that people can learn from.
-Brendan
#95230 - keldon - Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:25 am
You can just create a batch/java file that launches your game in an emulator. Edit the pif of the emulator to automatically load your game.
But java can be done cross platform if you simply learn how to do it correctly. We've done it, plenty of people have done it. Many java apps on the net work on all platforms, you other guys have just had an unfair deal.
You can simply create it in C/C++ and compile multiple versions. If they are in linux, it is likely that they are more than aware of picking the right compilation, or compiling from source. If they are windows, they will know to pick the "for windows" logo.