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Game Design > invisible platforms/trick floors

#5328 - sgeos - Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:24 am

I think that invisible platforms and trick floors/walls are fun. I just wanted to know if anybody thinks they are evil? =)

-Brendan

#5330 - joet - Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:49 am

They can be a useful design technique, but make it fair on the player by having some sort of visual clue - maybe something dripping on to the invisible platforms so that a careful player can spot them ...

#5332 - Sweex - Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:12 pm

Hidden areas rule!:) They give the player a "feelgood" moment when they find them. Also, it can be fun when they are found by accident.

#5338 - Daikath - Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:28 pm

I don;t know. They used to be fun in the 16-bit era but now..

Players have grown impatient, I for one know a lot of hidden lifes and Chaos Emeralds in Sonic The Hedgehog for the 8-bit Sega Master System (in that version you had to find the chaos emeralds while they were hidden in the game, not in bonus worlds :) They used those for continues) but I only know those because I practically grew up playing that game.
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#5366 - tepples - Sat Apr 26, 2003 3:35 am

Everything in your game should have a plausible explanation in the laws of physics in your game world, and especially now that we have more cart space than we had in the 8- and 16-bit eras, it should be animated. If the player can fall through a floor tile, make the floor tile appear to swing downward on hinges. (To camouflage a hinge tile, put random cracks in the rest of the wall tiles.) If the player can make a hidden platform visible and solid, make it swing up from the rear wall or something, as is shown in some levels of the Mega Man series. Plausibility and dependability of game physics increases immersion and in turn makes the playing experience more enjoyable. If there are any surprises, you had better have a good reason for them.
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#5380 - Sweex - Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:55 pm

Quote:
Everything in your game should have a plausible explanation in the laws of physics in your game world


I do not agree. Videogames are not real life, that's (for certain genres) what makes them fun imho. So if a certain platform appears totally the same as all the others, but one has a different effect then that shouldn't be a problem. Mind you that those occasions should not result in death, but rather in a bonus or a funny effect of some kind.

I think this add an extra "layer" to a game. They don't *have* to be there, they are not vital to the gameplay (not more than providing ie. an extra life, which is probably lost when searching for these rooms/platforms). They do however make a player smile when he found one.

I think the best way to describe it is to reward the player for extensively exploring the game world.

#5383 - Daikath - Sat Apr 26, 2003 2:10 pm

Well in Sonic Adventure 2 and both Sonic Advance games the gravity can be reversed, as far as I know thats not real world physics ;). Yes it is fun.
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#5384 - jenswa - Sat Apr 26, 2003 2:22 pm

Those things are fun, but they should not be part of the red line of your game, just an addition, like a bonus or something.
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#5386 - Malefactor - Sat Apr 26, 2003 3:16 pm

jenswa wrote:
Those things are fun, but they should not be part of the red line of your game, just an addition, like a bonus or something.


Exactly. Unless of course you give enough hints and clues, or even some stratigic riddle in the storyline or plot. In that way you might be able to integrate such secrets with the game progression smoothly.

A good example is the early Zelda games, back before they told you exactly where to go and what to do.
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#5394 - tepples - Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:10 pm

Daikath wrote:
Well in Sonic Adventure 2 and both Sonic Advance games the gravity can be reversed, as far as I know thats not real world physics ;).

True, but they are consistent physics within the game world. If I stated something in a misleading way, I'm sorry, but my point is not that the physics should match reality external to the game but that the physics should be consistent throughout the game, with any exceptions accounted for adequately in the plot. For example, random gravity-reversal for no apparent reason is bad, but gravity-reversal in Gravity Man's stage in Mega Man 5 is fun.
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#5396 - sgeos - Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:37 pm

tepples wrote:

True, but they are consistent physics within the game world.


If we are talking about a game in the spirit world, where physics are not consistant, it seems like just about anything would go to me. Think alice in wonderland for a bad example.

I was actuallying thinking of making a game with absolutely no (real) graphics as a political statement. I hate the notion of a game industry as such, and think that people should just make games. So called games, or better explained interactive movies, can be sold on graphics and special effects alone.

The only gfx I'm allowing for this game are solid boxes of either red, green, blue, cyan, yellow, magenta, black, white, and middle grey. Text is allowed where appropriate, but only one ascii font.

What I'm wondering is, would anyone actually be interested in playing this? Creating it is actually a trial for a person's sanity, and I might just drop the project. I'm not sure if playing it is a trial, but some of my local friends did play around with what I have so far for longer than I expected. =P The game will be heavy on secret areas.

-Brendan

#5400 - tepples - Sat Apr 26, 2003 9:21 pm

sgeos wrote:
The only gfx I'm allowing for this game are solid boxes of either red, green, blue, cyan, yellow, magenta, black, white, and middle grey. Text is allowed where appropriate, but only one ascii font.

Tetris has already been done on GBA, at least 6 times. Please add solid circles to make it more interesting. At least then you can make Breakout.

Quote:
What I'm wondering is, would anyone actually be interested in playing this? Creating it is actually a trial for a person's sanity, and I might just drop the project. I'm not sure if playing it is a trial, but some of my local friends did play around with what I have so far for longer than I expected. =P The game will be heavy on secret areas.

It's experimental art. My biggest concern is how would one be able to discern game objects?
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#5403 - sgeos - Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:20 pm

tepples wrote:
Tetris has already been done on GBA, at least 6 times. Please add solid circles to make it more interesting. At least then you can make Breakout.


Whoa! This is a platform game! It doesn't scroll yet, so I won't call it a side scroller...

I guess that using simple shapes (circle, triangle, sqare) wouldn't violate the no graphics rule. Somehow this whole thing is looking very c64 so far.

Quote:
It's experimental art. My biggest concern is how would one be able to discern game objects?


Imagination required? Warning?! Induces insanity unless already crazy?

By color mostly. The main character is red box. It is two tiles high. Currently it can become one tile high, but the plan is for this feature to be unlocked by collecting a powerup. Anything red is good. This rule won't be broken. You might not be able to tell the high jump and acid power ups apart by looking at them, but you can tell that they are power ups. After collecting them, the plan is that a box will open open up that says "Armor" (or whatever our friendly red box picked up).

Enemies would have a color. PC weapons would be another color. Enemy weapons another. Transparency and blend effects can be used, although without real gfx they would be a joke. One BG could be used in front of the player/enemies, and another behind.

-Brendan

#5407 - Daikath - Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:05 pm

Hmm, you would get a typically homebrew product though :).

Can't you get the same gameplay if you get a more detailed and polished graphical look? In the case of Sonic the games are fun to play because of the graphical stuff, you really get the feeling you are going fast plus al the colours and especially the special background (the sea in the first world definatly arent normal tiles).

I think this is just an easy way of trying to work on the gameplay though you could set your mind to it anyways.
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#5409 - sgeos - Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:20 pm

Daikath wrote:
Hmm, you would get a typically homebrew product though :).


=)

Daikath wrote:

Can't you get the same gameplay if you get a more detailed and polished graphical look?


Of course, but the exercise is to get gameplay specifically without using graphics. I love graphics, and I'm actually considering dropping the project simply because it has no graphics. =P

Daikath wrote:

I think this is just an easy way of trying to work on the gameplay though you could set your mind to it anyways.


It's a way of creating a product that could only be justified through gameplay.

-Brendan

#5436 - jenswa - Sun Apr 27, 2003 5:59 pm

Well even if the graphics, were cool and it just a platformer,
without any special/funny things, it would be boring though.

Since mini-games, bonus levels and all kind of things you can collect
and other cool stuff you can use, are really the better part of the gameplay.

So it would be cool to see you finsih to product, with something special
add to the basic platform game.
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#6321 - SmileyDude - Fri May 23, 2003 3:38 am

sgeos wrote:
The only gfx I'm allowing for this game are solid boxes of either red, green, blue, cyan, yellow, magenta, black, white, and middle grey.


I've done a game like this... but, I made my boxes the size of pixels :D

Actually, it sounds like you are trying for Atari 2600 style graphics -- those games were all about gameplay because there was nothing in the graphics or sound department to keep you hooked.

I think a better approach would be to start with a good game and build up from there. As long as the gameplay is good, then feel free to add all the bells and whistles -- as long as you don't over do it, it can only get better.
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