#104868 - pas - Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:29 pm
Hi all,
I have a short question for you:
Does someone of you know the Gba Game: Payback ?
If so, do you hate the birdeye view aswell ?
If so, then please answer here if you have any idea for this.
Is there a way to change the camera view point from: Birdeye view to... Maybe 3rd Person View ? I mean, wouldnt it only take a 90? Angle ?
I mean it like this:
Payback normally looks like this:
[img=http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2576/paybacktd0.th.png]
But if it would be modified, so that the camera has another view point it could probably look similar to this:
[img=http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/1597/driver2advancens9.th.png]
Why I think this coud be possible ? Because Payback has ONLY 3D Modells and nothing other... So:
Would/ Is it possible ? If so could someone please explain ?
Hope you answer:
Pas
Last edited by pas on Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
#104878 - DekuTree64 - Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:36 pm
More than likely, the only reason for the overhead view is to keep the number of polygons on screen to a minimum. In the second screenshot, you can see a lot more of the world at once (although a lot of it is behind the building, but it still has to be considered during rendering one way or another). If you can get it to run fast enough, then by all means go with the better looking view.
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Therefore a fully optimized program doesn't exist.
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#104880 - pas - Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:19 pm
Hmm... the 3D Modells on Picture 1 has all Polygons they need to get displayed, right ? But I just ask this now:
What would happen if someone (a skilled Programmer maybe) would manage it to change the Camera Positon from Overhead View to 3rd Person View ? Would the game then still run normal or not ?
I mean: The Number of Polygon's used for the Modells wouldn't change, but the Viewpoint would, would this really affect the Gameplay ?
Hope a Programmer or Someone who knows something about gbaprogramming can answer me.
Greets:
Pas
#104889 - tepples - Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:50 pm
Generally, an over the shoulder view will have a lot more polygons viewed edge-on, causing more distortion given the shortcuts that jd's texture mapper uses to get decent performance on a 16.78 MHz ARM7 with slow RAM.
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#105228 - pas - Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:35 pm
So, would it be possible, or would the game get unplayable lame ?
#105316 - pas - Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:38 pm
WOULD THERE BE a way to change the camera positon in a Gbagame or not ? If it would be possible, could someone please post an Example ?
If not, would it not be able because of the many Polygons ?
If so, why do other Gbagames work in third-person mode (Driver2Advance, Driv3r,...) ?
And could something be made that let you change the Viewpoint with,
maybe, Select ?
Could the Camerapostion change be done with an Hexeditor ?
Has anyoneelse tried this succesfully with other Games/ Homebrews ?
I hope you can answer:
Pas
#105318 - DiscoStew - Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:59 pm
This is just my assumption. The GBA has no 3D hardware in itself, so the programmer has to program the entire 3D engine themselves. In this, it doesn't mean this 3D engine will support everything that 3D hardware is capable of, so in theory, only those features that the game needs is implemented in, whether that be some special lighting effects, or even the way a camera works.
Payback, for instance, has it's camera system set up so that you see everything from a bird's eye view. Does that mean it could work from an over-the-shoulder view? Depends if the programmer allowed that. If they didn't, then no, it's not possible. Because of it's current set up, it is most likely that you can't have any other view, as it could really mess with the 3D. Just changing a camera's perspective doesn't mean it will show correct results at that perspective, unless that sort of view was implemented, or which I see it isn't.
So, the short answer to your question is no, you can't change the camera's position and direction, that is to say if it even has such coordinates that a normal camera system has.
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#105321 - pas - Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:45 pm
What would happen if someone would change the camera succesfully ? Would the Grafix's get garbled ? Would the Game hang up ?
#105329 - DiscoStew - Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:51 pm
You have to understand. You are most likely thinking that the camera system for it is just like that for any 3D setup ran off hardware. The GBA has no 3D hardware of it's own, so the programmer can set up their 3D engine however they want, which does not mean it will be set up exactly like hardware would.
So if you wanted to change it, you would have to know how it was set up, and how the 3D engine works with it. For this, you would either have to do reverse engineering on it, or get the information from the author, which is highly unlikely.
If the 3D makeup for the game was not designed for an over-the-shoulder view, then changing the camera view for it will do nothing but cause problems. To fix that, you would have to redesign the 3D engine yourself. You'd have more on your hands than expected......much more.
Question I have for you though is "Is it worth it?" It is no easy task.
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#105344 - pas - Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:35 pm
Ok, then: Thanks for your answer. Another question similar to this, just for the NDSgame: Tenchu Dark. Maybe you know that this game has a 3D Engine too. And sadly said a Overhead View aswell. would the trick descriptet before maybe work here ? STOP ! Before you start to say me the same you did one post ago, listen: 1. Sometimes in the Game there are briges, and if you walk through these briges you see the charakter in 3rd Person nearly... 2. In the Cut Scenes, you can see the Charakters and the whole eviroment in 3rd Person View too. So would the trick probably work here ? Change the View point. Nearly same Problem like Payback, but better conditions... Hope you can answer again: Pas
#105407 - tepples - Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:35 pm
Payback is proprietary software. You cannot change it because you do not have the source code.
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#105410 - zzo38computer - Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:00 pm
It is possible to modify a program without the source-code if you use hex-editor or whatever (as in the NDS Firmware was modified to make FlashMe), you just can't distribute it! I have hacked Pokemon Pinball so that you start with 4 balls instead of 3 balls (change all instances of 3E 01 EA 9D D4 to 3E 00 EA 9D D4, D49D is the ball number (1=first, 2=second, etc) and if set to zero'th ball then you have 4 balls). I have never modified a camera-position by hacking it though, but I have looked at all the 3-D models in SSBM from every angle, the castle doesn't have a back or inside, it is meant to be viewed only from the front.
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#105414 - keldon - Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:44 pm
Isn't that pretty much what the action replay devices do?
#105416 - tepples - Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:36 pm
Changing the formula for calculating the camera position would be a much more involved hack than changing a number of balls.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#105424 - sgeos - Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:26 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| Changing the formula for calculating the camera position would be a much more involved hack than changing a number of balls. |
That formula may or may not be in the game. Although even if the formula *is* in the game, I think it would be very difficult to find. Having found it, you'd have to call it with the correct parameters and pray that it works. It would probably be easier to break into the developer's office, locate and steal the disc with the source code, and break out without getting caught. In other words, you don't even want to bother thinking about it.
-Brendan
#105429 - keldon - Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:37 pm
| Quote: |
| Changing the formula for calculating... |
I'm sure that there are some action replay hacks that changed lines of source code - although I could be wrong.
If people are able to crack dongles and make emulators and break through layers of copyright protection then what makes it so hard to do with something that is easier to debug?
#105432 - sgeos - Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:51 pm
| keldon wrote: |
| If people are able to crack dongles and make emulators and break through layers of copyright protection then what makes it so hard to do with something that is easier to debug? |
The number of people interested? I'd love to write an emulator if I had the time. I'd hate to search for/add a camera algorithm to a game without the source code.
-Brendan
#105668 - pas - Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:41 pm
@zzo38computer:
How to hexedit a Gbagame ?
How to view 3D Modells ? (Which Progam should I use ? )
Greets:
Pas
#105749 - pas - Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:24 pm
So the only options out there would be to:
- search for the camera parameters with a Hexeditor and edit them
- break into apex-designs office and steal their Source Code
- ask Apex Design if they could give us the Source Code
?
Would there no way to de - and later recompile the game WITHOUT the Source code ?
Greets:
Pas
#105868 - sgeos - Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:08 pm
The short answer is- "not going to happen". The long answer is long and I don't feel like typingit out because it will amount to the short answer.
Why not write something from scratch?
-Brendan
#105975 - pas - Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:51 pm
Because PAYBACK rocks and not the game made from the beginning... If I just would know what to edit with the Hexeditor...
If just someone could help me with this thing...
Greets:
Pas
PS: I found out something: Payback records the Game you played already, and then shows you the whole thing in DIFFERENT Camerea Postions...
So I think IF someone would find out what to edit in the Rom then the Camera would be turnable....
Now I played through the game anyway... But it would be nice to see it in 3rd Person anyway...
#107331 - pas - Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:15 pm
FORGET THIS ONE... IT WAS JUST A STUPID IDEA...
#107543 - pas - Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:04 pm
Is there a stucture how we could find out where a camera is located in a Gba game ?
I mean: How look camera positons like. I would like to see examples.
PS: I found out something: I looked at the Gbagame Payback with the Hexeditor Xvi32 (BTW: Do you know a better FREEWARE Hexeditor ? )
And I found all the speech and text from the game. This is pretty cool...
But more important: I saw some bits of code which looked like PC (or maybe Amiga Commands ?)
And now I ask myself: What do those Amiga Commands in a Gbagame ? I mean didn't they wrote Payback from scratch ?[/code]
#107544 - Sausage Boy - Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:07 pm
Exactly how did these "amiga commands" look?
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#107763 - pas - Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:43 pm
Like this:
| Code: |
| Out of storage space! Out of memory! Not enough storage space for file. Do you want to delete a file to make room? Choose file to delete Delete this file? File deleted! Load Save New Quit Mode: File Cube Copy Paste Move |
I'm pretty sure, that this are Amiga Commands.. .because: why should you like to paste something ON a Gba ?
If you like to see the Rest of Payback just E-mail me !
I wished someone could help me finding out how to change that damn Camerapostion...