#107521 - pas - Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:45 pm
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Starcraft DS ?
Last edited by pas on Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
#107528 - gauauu - Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:41 pm
Short answer: probably not
Long answer: technically, if you knew how the models were stored, you could pull them out, change them, and update the rom. But unless you have the source code, it would be ridiculously difficult to make sure everything got updated properly. Unless you're REALLY REALLY good, don't bother trying.
#107534 - pas - Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:03 pm
Hmmm... Thanks..
And now maybe... A Expert's answer ?
(Tepples where are you ? Mighty Max where are you ? Chishim where are you ? )
#107535 - Sausage Boy - Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:08 pm
Gauauu pretty much hit the nail. Unless you're extremely skilled in reverse engineering, arm/thumb assembly and 3d maths, it's just not possible.
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#107549 - gauauu - Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:18 pm
What defines an "Expert" to you?
Here's an "Expert" answer to a similar question you asked:
| sgeos wrote: |
It would probably be easier to break into the developer's office, locate and steal the disc with the source code, and break out without getting caught. In other words, you don't even want to bother thinking about it.
|
#107574 - sgeos - Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:20 am
| pas wrote: |
Hmmm... Thanks..
And now maybe... A Expert's answer? |
Track down one of the programmers and offer him lots of money to break his NDA? Keep in mind that if he gets caught he basically gets booted from the industry. Offer accordingly.
Signing a contract with the developer to get the details is probably more realistic. Then again, maybe not. I could see them saying "why bother."
If you want to crack the format from the outside, you've got to be really really good. If you need to ask how good "really really good" is, you are not qualified. If you really must know- in short, "really really good" would probably put you at or above professional senior/lead programmer level. (In theory you might just be a really really good programmer and lack the proper organizational skills to be a lead programmer.)
Martin Korth could probably pull this off if he could be bothered. Barring a determined military, I wouldn't bet on anyone else right now. Others are certainly around- I just don't know who they are. Could they be bothered with this? No. Most certainly not.
-Brendan
#107760 - pas - Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:31 pm
Hmm... Is there not even a Program that can filter out the 3D Modells ?
#107775 - keldon - Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:39 pm
| pas wrote: |
| Hmm... Is there not even a Program that can filter out the 3D Modells ? |
No. Come on, how can a program 'know' where to start looking for data that could be in any format starting at any place?
#107794 - tepples - Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:57 am
I'm under the impression that pas was under the impression that Nintendo had defined a format for 3D models. This is the case on Nintendo DS and GameCube, where the hardware specifies a format for display lists. This is also the case for graphics and sound data on many Nintendo systems. But this is not the case on the Game Boy Advance, which has no hardware support for 3D polygon graphics.
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-- Who?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#107824 - sgeos - Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:02 am
| pas wrote: |
| Hmm... Is there not even a Program that can filter out the 3D Modells ? |
Do you know what format the models are stored in? If the answer is yes, you can probably find them with little trouble. Otherwise you will be taking stabs in the dark. (Some people do enjoy that kind thing. I think. Anyone? =)
-Brendan
#107828 - pas - Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:32 am
Ok, thanks for everyone answers. especially tepples (which helped me to understand how the gba works with 3D much better. Now I've got some other semi-gba-nds relatet questions: | Quote: |
| 1. What Modellextensions have the most (nds) Modells ? 2.Does anyone know a freeware Modellviewer ? 3. Is there a way (maybe a programm) to change those Modells ? 4. Is there a way to look at Modells ON the DS ? |
I hope you answer: Pas
#107830 - sgeos - Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:30 pm
| Quote: |
| 1. What Modellextensions have the most (nds) Modells ? |
Maya and 3ds Max are the industry standard. Both are currently owned by Autodesk. Many (most?) companies convert models to a proprietary format for storage/usage.
| Quote: |
| 2.Does anyone know a freeware Modellviewer ? |
A universal model viewer doesn't exist. You'll need to have the models in a format the viewer can understand.
Autodesk Maya Personal Learning Edition isn't really freeware, but it is free. FWIW, I've never used the personal learning edition. It appears to be essentially full featured.
| Quote: |
| 3. Is there a way (maybe a programm) to change those Modells ? |
Maya (PLE) will let you modify models you have created with it. Standard Maya and the PLE do not have compatible file formats. Any other 3D modelling software will let you modify models generated with it.
| Quote: |
| 4. Is there a way to look at Modells ON the DS ? |
Yes. The simplest solution requires proprietary software. (probably expensive)
The least expensive solution is to write your own 3D model viewer for the DS. Assuming one already exists, you'll need to convert your models the format it uses.
-Brendan
#107832 - kusma - Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:42 pm
| pas wrote: |
| 1. What Modellextensions have the most (nds) Modells ? 2.Does anyone know a freeware Modellviewer ? 3. Is there a way (maybe a programm) to change those Modells ? 4. Is there a way to look at Modells ON the DS ? |
1. In games, meshes are usually stored in some format proprietary to the rendering engine. For NDS, this will most likely be the format of the display lists that the GPU consume.
2. One that has quite a lot of popularity is Blender. You can find it at http://www.blender.org
3. For this, you'll need a hex-editor and patience. Lots of it. As there is no real reason for homebrew NDS software to convert this way, this looks dangerously much like a ROM hack. ROM hacks are not really the scope of this forum.
4. This may be easier than converting the model back to a standard 3d-format, once you have located the display-lists.
I must ask though, is there a reason why you want to lift the content off a ROM?
#107834 - pas - Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:24 pm
I want to lift it so I can look at it more closely ;)
Ah ! And, do you mean the bin data's with this ? (I just wantet to know what extensions are normally used for 3D Modells on the DS...):
[quote]1. In games, meshes are usually stored in some format proprietary to the rendering engine. For NDS, this will most likely be the format of the display lists that the GPU consume.[quote]
#107836 - kusma - Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:16 pm
| pas wrote: |
| Ah ! And, do you mean the bin data's with this ? (I just wantet to know what extensions are normally used for 3D Modells on the DS...): |
I assume that by "extensions" you mean the file format (as in .3ds, .lwo, .obj, .x and whatnot), but in most games it's not that easy, as you often want to reduce loading-time by not having to process the data on-target. Usually game-developers pre-process the data, and store them in some proprietary processed file-format. Very few of these formats are publicly documented.
#107857 - tepples - Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:12 pm
| pas wrote: |
| I want to lift it so I can look at it more closely ;) |
In the same sense as the Super Smash Bros. Melee trophy viewer?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#108069 - pas - Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:45 am
If you could explain me what this "trophy viewer" IS... I could answer
#108075 - keldon - Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:22 am
You can rotate and zoom in the trophie viewer.
#108076 - tepples - Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:33 am
| pas wrote: |
| If you could explain me what this "trophy viewer" IS... I could answer |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._Melee#Trophies
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#108226 - pas - Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:51 pm
@keldon and tepples:
YES ! I think this trophy viewer is just that what I would like to view the Modells in DS Games.