#28258 - ScottLininger - Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:01 pm
So now that my RPG engine is almost done, the massive effort of developing content has begun in earnest.
I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on their favorite RPGs and *why* they found them so enjoyable.
Personally, I think the gold standard is Zelda. But it's hard for me to separate my rational assessment of the gameplay from the nostalgia that the game invokes. If nothing else, Zelda was one of the first console RPGs to get it right...
I'd like to go out and buy some used carts for research, but I need some suggestions on what to look for.
Thanks,
-Scott
#28260 - Abscissa - Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:26 pm
I tend to like the action RPGs better than the menu-based RPGs. Illusion of GAIA (SNES) is good, but some of the bosses are way too hard and it doesn't let you wander around a big map (It automatically places you wherever you need to be, you don't get to travel there yourself). Alundra (PSX) is good also, but the collisions/jumping/etc tend to be very strict and sometimes frustrating. Zelda's awesome :)
#28266 - Touchstone - Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:36 pm
For the Mega Drive (that's "Genesis" to all you NTSC dudes) I loved Dungeons and Dragons: Warriors of the Eternal Sun, and Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday. Both excellent RPG's, mainly because of the (in my mind) vivid worlds and varied gameplay. In Buck Rogers you had the traditional level-exploring, turn based combat and you could even fly out into space and fight other spaceships in really cool fights, and if you wanted to you cou?d board every enemy spaceship and take them over from the inside, and if I remember it correctly you could sell what's left of the ship and supplies. It was awesome!
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#28269 - getch - Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:29 pm
I am a Fallout fanatic.
I love the entire series mostly for the setting (Post-appocalyptic Earth.)
Some nice humourous moments thrown in that didn't interrupt the plot.
The skills system was excellent. There were enough skills to make you think about what to learn, but not so many that you get punished if you make the wrong decisions.
A nice perk system where, every couple of levels, the character would gain a choice of new abilities. These choices were based on how you'd developed the character.
_________________
-pb
#28281 - expos1994 - Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:51 pm
Here are some good ones I've finished.
NES:
Legend of Zelda -- I've beat this probably 20 times.
Dragon Warrior -- I've beat this one probably 5 times. I've never played a RUN/FIGHT/ITEM game as good as this one. I think the monsters were the best part of this game. Goldman and Metal Slime, etc. I just get obsessed with leveling up and reaching new areas of the map. I think it is well designed. Nothing holds you back from traveling long distances other than the fact you'll catch a beat down.
Final Fantasy III (translated Rom, I think there's an SNES and PSX release of the game)... good story.
Sega Genesis:
Shining Force I & II ... these games rocked. Managing a team of Run/fight/item fighters. Good stories. There's a GBA translation that is fun.
Gameboy mono:
Final Fantasy Adventure -- Good Zelda type game. I've played through it twice.
Final Fantasy Legend I & II -- These games were interesting.
GBA:
FF Tactics Advance -- I loved FFT for PS1, and this one was very similar.
Golden Sun -- my first GBA game. Pretty good RPG. Similar to Shining Force/Final Fantasy.
Playstation:
Final Fantasy Tactics
I don't have time for these games much anymore, but I have a copy of Kingdom Hearts, it's fun but I never finished it.
#28282 - keldon - Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:02 pm
Mega Drive
- The legend of thor
It's an amazing game in a similar format to Zelda. The battles are amazing and they keep you on the edge of your seat, also the puzzles and worlds are so undulging it's like your are truly in another place.
GameBoy
Dragonball Z 2 (namek saga)
Despite it being completely in Japanese and me not knowing any, I had the most fun with this game. It features a fighting system like no other, where you pick a few moves and use them through a feat of moves.
But what makes its fighting system different is that when you perform a move you must time it to make it more powerful. But more powerful moves use more of your own power and it is possible to lose all your energy and be frozen.
It also allows you to defeat someone much more powerful than yourself as you can block and also dodge moves (but when someone is more powerful than you there is a speed handicap).
#28289 - DiscoStew - Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:10 am
Secret of Mana all the way!!!!!!!
The other Mana games, however, did not completely give me that same feeling.
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#28290 - keldon - Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:02 am
Secret of mana was great (SNES I think), and Terranigma (which I remember as a part of the mana series for some reason). There is another one I think was on the mega drive; but most of the cart's don't work :(
And of course Legend of Zelda. I don't think there are many RPG's to date that can match it. I've often questionned Ocarina of Time's greatness because of this game. I try not to post these obvious ones though; because they're simply on a list of greats anyway.
#28301 - kill_microsoft - Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:45 am
Final Fantasy VIII All The Way!
#28310 - cocole - Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:44 pm
Final Fantasy 6... Great & long story, a lot of different and unique characters (12 + 2 hidden). Superb musique (like in all FF).
#28315 - Abscissa - Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:38 pm
| kill_microsoft wrote: |
| Final Fantasy VIII All The Way! |
Really? I have to say that was my least favorite Final Fantasy. The story was alright, but partway through I got so bored with the battles, I realized the story was the only think keeping me playing so I gave up. :/ (But hey, that' just me.)
#28328 - DiscoStew - Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:35 pm
| keldon wrote: |
| Secret of mana was great (SNES I think), and Terranigma (which I remember as a part of the mana series for some reason). |
Actually, Terranigma was created by Enix, although I can see how you would think it was part of the mana series. I wonder what the Mana DS game will be like?
The Final Fantasy games are pretty good, but I started to loose interest starting with VIII (sorry, it was my least favorite also). Although I haven't played anything after IX (I have no PS2), I just don't have the interest to try them.
I guess I like the action-rpg games better like Mana, Zelda, etc, because you don't have to wait for a battle to load because everything is in real-time, and you have full control of what the character is doing and not just giving commands. Anything that makes me wait (other than normal load times) and is too repetative annoys me.
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#28331 - Andor - Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:06 pm
[opinion.personal]
In my mind, Zelda and other 'action-rpgs' belong in a seperate category from traditional menu-based rpgs (like FF1-10 and Golden Sun). Both categories have their merits: Final Fantasy is much, much 'deeper' in backstory than Zelda could ever hope to be; whereas Zelda is just a delight to play and battle with. Why? Because fighting in Zelda is fast paced (thus, the 'action rpg' moniker).
One of the strokes against Final Fantasy 7 (the only recent FF I've played) is that the battle engine seemed slow to me. Compare FF7's battle engine to that of Golden Sun, and you'll see what I mean: the characters and the enemies in FF7 seem somehow lethargic, and I feel as if I'm always waiting for my turn to come up again while everything on the screen just kinda sits there. On the other hand, everyone in Golden Sun seems like they're tweaked on speed on something, and a single turn in a pitched battle can begin and be over in 10-15 seconds.
Does FF7 utterly trounce GS in the story department? Oh surely, but then again that's what Final Fantasy is known for. But IMHO, GS is more fun to play through.
So, in summary: speed is important. Don't make me wait on summons that take 15 seconds to activate. Don't let my character's standard attacks take more than a second or two to go through. Instead of showing the amount of damage done and arbitrarily pausing for a few seconds, show me the damage done in a pop-up box, and continue the action as soon as I close that box - this way, I could potentially just hit 'A' as soon as I see the box, and continue speeding merrily through the battle.
[/opinion.personal]
Last edited by Andor on Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
#28332 - kill_microsoft - Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:19 pm
ill give you ?20 for a working set of FF8 disks. I playe mine too much n they got a bit worn.
#28333 - sajiimori - Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:20 pm
| Quote: |
| But IMHO, GS is more fun to play through. |
If you like arthritis from pressing 'A' every time something happens. =P
I agree that FF became too slow -- the speed peaked in FF4, hit an all-time low in the abysmal FF8, and seemed to crawl its way back after that.
But to address the original question (indirectly): Some of the most memorable moments in my RPG history have been when I thought I understood the scope of a game, but then it turns out to be much bigger than I realized. The best example is FF7 when you leave Midgar and finally see the real world map.
#28338 - Andor - Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:02 pm
| Quote: |
| Some of the most memorable moments in my RPG history have been when I thought I understood the scope of a game, but then it turns out to be much bigger than I realized. The best example is FF7 when you leave Midgar and finally see the real world map. |
Oh, yeah... that was awesome.
Something to consider regarding world maps: some games have their world map initially far too open, and you can potentially wander into areas that would have you way over your head, or be able to visit towns that don't have an obvious function yet. I'm really a fan of the 'hand-holding' storyline which you see in OoT - you always know where you're supposed to go next, and you can spend all your time trying to get there, rather than futzing around on a huge world map wandering into random battles.
#28349 - sajiimori - Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:11 am
I only want the game to tell me where to go if the storyline isn't up to the task. That is, in OoT there were times when the plot doesn't guide you to your next destination, but the map has a blinking spot or Navi magically knows where you should go next. I always thought it was kind of a cop-out, but it was acceptable because the gameplay was fun.
Metroid Prime had too much hand-holding. I felt like I was running somebody's errands. It would have been better to have the game implicitly guide you through the relevant areas, the way Metroid 3 did on SNES. It always felt as if I had made a discovery, like a big orange archeologist. ;)
Back on the subject of RPGs, I always kind of liked those big open maps where you could stumble into the super-hard areas early on, like on Dragon Warrior. It made things feel more dangerous. Games that don't involve taking risks feel like watching a kid's movie where you know the good guys always win. Of course, the cost of the big open map is revealing more of the game's scope early on.
I think the appeal of the open map is that you can see things that you want, and that gives you something to work towards. It's like another memorable moment for me -- in Doom 1 E1M3 where the floating blue face is looking at you through the dark window. You just have to say, "I want to get in there!"
So those are 2 conflicting interests to balance: giving the player something to work towards, while leaving more yet to be discovered. It worked great in Midgar because you knew that you'd eventually get out, and you were implicitly working toward that, but the game keeps you so distracted by the plot that by the time you get outside you just aren't prepared for it.
Mystery, discovery, danger... some good things to strive for. ^_^
#28361 - Abscissa - Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:59 am
| sajiimori wrote: |
| Metroid Prime had too much hand-holding. I felt like I was running somebody's errands. |
Have you played Metriod Fusion? Knowing where to go in Prime is like stepping totally unprepared into a nuclear physisist's convenion compared to the rediculous amount of hand-holding going on in Fusion. It's absolutely horribible, it seriously feels like "Metroid: Errand Kid". A dang parrot could understand where to go next in it. Sorry, off topic, but had to rant ;)
#28363 - sajiimori - Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:08 am
Oh yeah, I had forgotten about Fusion! Perhaps I blocked it from my memory. =P It's a shame cuz there were a couple really cool moments in that game.
#28873 - greenllll - Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:25 am
Dungeons of Daggorath played on the TRS80. It was great because:
1 The heartbeat was used to indicate hit-points. The player hears the heart beating (boom boom) (boom boom) as he plays. The player had to act & think quickly to avoid being attacked by monsters, but he also had to strategize about every action taken. Walking too quickly would leave the heart unprepared for a battle. Taking too many hits would make the heart explode. Quaffing certain potion made the heartbeat slow down. As the player got stronger, the heartbeat got slower & didnt rise as easily. The rythm of the beating was awesome.
2 A game must allow the player to act creatively. It should allow him to think smarter to level his character quicker, or to attack/run/dodge/whatever in a certain combination to cheat the system to his advantage. Intelligence & experiance should be rewarded, not just by an increase in INT & EXP points, but also by the player just figuring out how to play w/ maximum efficiency.
Zelda was great because, again, of its strategy/quick thinking ability. &
1 There was a hidden secret in just about every room!!! This is very important. The game was all about secret discoveries. & when Link found the secret he was rewarded, not just w/ a new power, but with a sound to enforce the positive feelings of accomplishment. This is very important! I believe, the more hidden secrets in a video game -- the better, but do leave occasional rooms w/out any secrets so the player does not lose interest in discovering.
Dragon Warrior was good, BUT, Dragon Warrior III was by far the most amazing DW game out there. The problem w/ DW is the fighting system. Sometimes you do not want to level or fight dragons, but you just want to explore & get somewhere. The way the monsters just popped up out of no where w/out any warning, leaving little control to the player is lame. The player needs to feel in control. The menu-command fighting system is very very lame, tedious & boring. It requires a great deal of time & is not that fun. Turn based games are often very boring. Too much time is spent picking out a spell for one magician & healing w/ another & deciding to parry the pixie ... It just takes to long & is not really that interntaining when you can do basicly the exact same thing w/ animated sprites & the occasional start-button menu. DW3 was a great game because it sped up the tedious process of turn-based battling & had a great world to discover.
3D is not everything. 2D can be very entertaining. Anyone remember
Castle of the Winds: A fun windows shareware classic, that would make a great GBA game. Having a good selection of weapons/armor w/ neat properties is a lot of fun, but try to make it obvious which armor/sword is better & which is worse. If you have too many items it can get tedious looking up the attributes of items. I could be wrong here. Just my humble opinions w/ everything I say. If you disagree, I respect your opinion either way.
It is fun having cool powers & abilities.
3D polygon graphics can be amazingly fun. Anyone ever explore the world of "Test Drive 3"? That game was so fun to just drive around & see the polygon 3D world & explore.
Please, do not make a user use graph paper to map out a dark dungeon. A user should have some kind of clue letting him know that there is sudden death up ahead. A user should never just suddenly die or lose experiance, out of no where, without any -even the subtlest- clue or hint that there is real danger ahead. Saving games from anywhere is nice.
Another good game:
Rogue: A classic. Classic hack & slash. I know someone ported it to the GBA, but they made the controls too difficult. The GBA Rogue port could have been an increadable game if the controls were easier. Rogue is awesome because it can involve strategy, fun items, leveling...
I like games that give money to purchase fun items.
Much to think about. Good luck w/ your game.
#28874 - ScottLininger - Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:23 am
| greenllll wrote: |
Dungeons of Daggorath played on the TRS80. It was great because:
1 The heartbeat was used to indicate hit-points. |
Wow! Dungeons of Dagorath. That really was an amazing game, though it's rare to find people who have played it.
That was back in the days before save-game as well, so when you got to the third level of the dungeon after an hour of play, your heart really was beating along with the game. Remember the slime with the iron sword? Whoohoo! What a thrill to get the Iron-freaking-sword. ;)
My first demo for my RPG engine utilized a beating heart. I'm definitely going to go back to that form of presentation at some point.
Thanks to everyone for submitting their ideas, BTW. I now have an excellent christmas list of old games to track down. I wish I had time to research (aka play) more of them before the compo deadline, but alas, I think I'll be spending all of my free time over the next month frantically working on content...
I just hope I have enough time for playtesting so people can tell me what sucks about my game before I submit it. :P
-Scott
#28899 - tepples - Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:33 pm
| greenllll wrote: |
| Sometimes you do not want to level or fight dragons, but you just want to explore & get somewhere. |
Those RPGs where the "Run away" command actually works solve this problem.
| Quote: |
| DW3 was a great game because it sped up the tedious process of turn-based battling & had a great world to discover. |
It seems that selecting the target and then choosing the action with a button (A: attack; B: magic; Select: spell) would make menu combat run quicker.
| Quote: |
| Anyone ever explore the world of "Test Drive 3"? That game was so fun to just drive around & see the polygon 3D world & explore. |
You just explained much of the success of GTA.
| Quote: |
| Rogue: A classic. Classic hack & slash. I know someone ported it to the GBA, but they made the controls too difficult. The GBA Rogue port could have been an increadable game if the controls were easier. |
How would you suggest the controls work? And can you suggest a control scheme for Starcraft Advance while you're at it?
| Quote: |
| I like games that give money to purchase fun items. |
But beating up wild animals shouldn't give you money directly, as it's just not plausible. It'd be a bit more plausible to collect loot such as teeth from such monsters and then sell them in a shop back in town.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#28905 - Mucca - Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:09 pm
Its a bit ridiculous to try to rationalise and legitimise such fictitious actions as beating up wild animals. Try doing it in real life, I guarantee you wont have much success selling teeth, you'll more than likely end up in jail.
Slavish devotion to reality can create tedious, irrelevant, repetitive tasks for the player, which add no diversity or choice to the gameplay.
Edit - er, on reflection, that sounded a bit like a rant, oops, not intended. Here's a smiley :)
#28918 - sajiimori - Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:02 pm
lololol "here's a smiley..."
#28923 - greenllll - Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:44 pm
It would be more apropriate to beat up rabid animals, or posessed wild animals, or dangerous animals that could kill small children, who have roamed to close to the village... but even better than the whole killing animals routine is killing evils like: greed, lust, pedophilia, hatred, racism, domestic violence, republicanism... ... (joking about the republicanism). but instead of making it obvious that you are battling the spirit of evil, you could sort of disguise it very subtly & say you are battling a greely dragon, lusatian kobolt, pedolopilus, hateroid, racigermous, domerulious viper, & an evil republibious. I think this is what I would do if I were making a game, but I would make it very difficult to figure out where the names came from so it wouldnt sound to Xtiany.
#28957 - greenllll - Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:24 am
I just got finished playing lego's Knights Kingdom. At first I was very impressed by the graphics, but after playing it for a few minutes I was repulsed by the speed that the character moves & the simplicity of the puzzles.
A rat can find its way through a maze, so whats the fun in having a character walk around in whats basicly a maze with the sole intention of getting keys? Sure there is an enemy to fight every now & then, but so what.. That game is extremely lame.
Dugeon games can be fun, but they should never be too complicated where the graphing paper is required. In fact, a map should be made, like in zelda's underworld levels. A map was autogenerated wherever he went & he could find the full map w/ almost all areas. That idea was brilliant! That is a great item to find. I love the idea of having lots of really useful items in a game. & finding them after good hard work & curiousity. I believe users should always be rewarded for following their curiosity. If there is a curious looking group of bushes in a certain unusualunique arangement, then let there be a secret entrance to a magical item near them.
I like overworld maps that are huge, detailed & can be moved across very quickly. A slow character, or a slow battling system kills totally kills an otherwise good game.
#30320 - Marill - Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:07 am
Ultima Underworld
Because of the immense sense of immersion in the game world. I needed to eat, I can tie a rope to a wooden pole, make a fishing rod and fish at the water, I can put maize into campfire and get popcorn. I can use a recipe and ingredients (including a rotworm i just killed) to make Rotworm Stew! Yum! :)
Weapon durability and doors, my lockpick skill ain't good enough to pick a door I could just club the entire door down with my weapon if I had enough strength and my weapon has enough durability.
I could run towards a monster and jump and collide into it and push it off the bridge into the water so it'll drown. In the sequel, I could lure a Yeti to walk over thin ice, which would break under the Yeti's weight and it'll drown in the water.
NPCs that wander about and do their own stuff, if they see me stealing their things they will get angry. If I provoke them enough even friendly guys will get angry and attack.
#30326 - blinky465 - Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:31 am
Do Laser Squad and Lords of Chaos on the ZX Spectrum count as RPG games? They were sort of turn based strategy games and were fantastic as two player games. I suspect that they would port to the GBA really well - it was always such a bind having to leave the room while your opponent took their turn! (at least with the GameBoy you could pass the whole console over to the other player and not get caught peeping)
#30596 - oblivi0n - Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:12 pm
| greenllll wrote: |
Please, do not make a user use graph paper to map out a dark dungeon. A user should have some kind of clue letting him know that there is sudden death up ahead. A user should never just suddenly die or lose experiance, out of no where, without any -even the subtlest- clue or hint that there is real danger ahead.
|
I really agree with this statement. A while ago I picked up a copy of the Phantasy Star package for GBA and so far I haven't managed to make it through the first game. I enjoy everything about the game except for the dungeons. I feel like a rat in a maze and since I am to lazy to break out the graph paper, I downloaded a guide with the dungeons already laid out. I can't wait to finish the first game because I heard the second and third are pretty good. I realize that for the time, this kind of game was probably amazing...but to play now, for me atleast, it is just annoying.
#30600 - tepples - Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:37 pm
| oblivi0n wrote: |
| A while ago I picked up a copy of the Phantasy Star package for GBA and so far I haven't managed to make it through the first game. I enjoy everything about the game except for the dungeons. I feel like a rat in a maze and since I am to lazy to break out the graph paper, I downloaded a guide with the dungeons already laid out. I can't wait to finish the first game because I heard the second and third are pretty good. |
Are the other games unlockable or something?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#30602 - oblivi0n - Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:54 pm
I believe the game forces you to play the games in order. So you have to finish 1 before starting 2. Unless, of course, I missed some feature that lets you pick what game you want to play :)
#30603 - sgeos - Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:03 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| oblivi0n wrote: | | A while ago I picked up a copy of the Phantasy Star package for GBA and so far I haven't managed to make it through the first game. I enjoy everything about the game except for the dungeons. I feel like a rat in a maze and since I am to lazy to break out the graph paper, I downloaded a guide with the dungeons already laid out. I can't wait to finish the first game because I heard the second and third are pretty good. |
Are the other games unlockable or something? |
I don't think so. I didn't have to unlock anything, but I bought my cart used. I was too lazy to do any mapping in PS1 for a while. Once I started mapping, the dungeons became a lot easier and I had a whole lot of fun.
-Brendan
#30604 - oblivi0n - Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:03 pm
Hummm...I hope, for my sake, that you are right. I bought my copy used but I don't remember if any games were started or not when I got it. I'll have to check to see if I can play the second game. I think I might be more apt to do the mapping if I wasn't playing the game on GBA. Having to map stuff w/ pen and paper is not very fun for a portable game.
#30617 - sgeos - Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:51 pm
I had a pen and notebook on my lap and held/set down my gba. I did most of my mapping on the bus. I actually found myself mapping entire dungeons to make sure that I had found everything.
-Brendan
#30644 - oblivi0n - Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:07 am
Wow...I feel really dumb now. I broke out the PS collection and yes you can select any game right from the beginning. After the title screen you can pick what game you want by pressing up and down. I missed this...I guess thats what I get for jambing the A button until the game starts :) In my defense, there was no indicator on screen showing that I could choose something else.
#32167 - Issac - Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:29 pm
I got to say: Chrono Trigger...
why?
NO RANDOM BATTLES!!!!
and no screenshifting between those unrandomized battles!
and the story suits me perfectly!
gosh... I'm glad I own this game.... :D
_________________
yeah, well, maybe... or? anyways.... eh... what was i talking about??
#32170 - identitycrisisuk - Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:39 pm
| Issac wrote: |
| I got to say: Chrono Trigger... |
Yeah, I've liked what I've played of this, kinda forgot about it a while ago though. Kinda realised that Soleil on the Megadrive basically ripped off a combination of this and Zelda. It seems weird though, like when you can go back to present day and it's got monsters and at the same time you can get to where there aren't any. It kinda takes away from the scary feeling that time's gone wrong, I'd like it more if you felt that everything wasn't gonna be completely fixed until the end. Another game concept I'd like to see visited again today.
_________________
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#32178 - Abscissa - Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:21 am
| Issac wrote: |
I got to say: Chrono Trigger...
why?
NO RANDOM BATTLES!!!! |
Thank god! :)
#32221 - Lupin - Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:13 pm
1) Secret of Mana
2) Illusion of Time
3) Chrono Trigger
4) Secret of Evermore
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#32237 - Miked0801 - Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:50 pm
Pulled out the SNES the other day to show my daughter Super Mario and got hooked beating Chrono Trigger again :)
1. Chrono Trigger
2. FF7
3. FF3
Guess I should buy stock in Square/Enix :)
Also enjoyed the first 3 hours of Harvest Moon, but the last 9 months are just to tedious.
#32238 - Miked0801 - Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:51 pm
Secret of Mana is great too, but it just took way too long to power up your magic at the end - same for Dragon Warrior I, II - took too long to level up :)
#32489 - gauauu - Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:58 am
| sajiimori wrote: |
Metroid Prime had too much hand-holding. I felt like I was running somebody's errands. It would have been better to have the game implicitly guide you through the relevant areas, the way Metroid 3 did on SNES. It always felt as if I had made a discovery, like a big orange archeologist. ;)
....
Mystery, discovery, danger... some good things to strive for. ^_^ |
To make an off-topic rant, why do they keep making all these hand-holding games? I would LOVE to play a REAL sequel to metroid 3, where I get to explore and feel like I'm lost in a huge world.
#32493 - DekuTree64 - Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:14 am
| gauauu wrote: |
| To make an off-topic rant, why do they keep making all these hand-holding games? I would LOVE to play a REAL sequel to metroid 3, where I get to explore and feel like I'm lost in a huge world. |
I agree. A friend of mine got the GBA FF1/2, and I was awed by the sleek yet old-school-ish new look to the point that I was just about to buy it myself, and then bam, right in the first village, you're locked in and forced to go do everything you're 'supposed' to before you can leave. Immediately I shunned it and liked the original NES version better. I hate it when you're locked into small areas in RPGs, and something really irks me about adding it into a game that was once free of it.
I actually like interactive tutorials on all the little details of the game, just as long as it's an option to help and not mixed in with the gameplay.
_________________
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The best optimization is to do nothing at all.
Therefore a fully optimized program doesn't exist.
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#32521 - tepples - Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:35 pm
| gauauu wrote: |
| To make an off-topic rant, why do they keep making all these hand-holding games? |
So that people don't accuse Nintendo of making games just to sell strategy guides.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#32579 - gauauu - Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:09 am
| DekuTree64 wrote: |
....right in the first village, you're locked in and forced to go do everything you're 'supposed' to before you can leave. |
Well, dang it. Another classic ruined. And for them, another lost sale, since I won't be buying that one now that you warned me.
#32600 - sgeos - Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:16 am
I liked Rudra's Treasure. Three parties. The main characters of the three main parties form a new team for the last areas. You named your own spells. The game must have used some sort of string scanning/regular expression deal to figure out what they did. Really good stuff.
-Brendan
#32604 - Abscissa - Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:28 am
| gauauu wrote: |
| To make an off-topic rant, why do they keep making all these hand-holding games? I would LOVE to play a REAL sequel to metroid 3, where I get to explore and feel like I'm lost in a huge world. |
I've heard that Japanese gamers (In general, there's obviously exceptions) don't like to be in a game and not know where to go. That's one of the reasons why GTA-ish games tend to not do as well over there. And that combined with panic over Japan's declining video games sales over the past number of years is what I'm guessing has been prompting all of the hand-holding.
But I totally sympathize. I would LOVE another Super Metroid. God, that game was great (And I didn't even play it until long after the SNES was discontinued!) Has anyone tried Zero Mission? How's that compared to Fusion?
| tepples wrote: |
| So that people don't accuse Nintendo of making games just to sell strategy guides. |
That strategy guide conspiracy theory ranks as one of the top things on my list of "sounds that are even more cringe-inducing than nails-on-a-chalkboard" (That list ironically includes styrofoam as well...but that's another topic entirely ;) )
#32640 - identitycrisisuk - Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:30 pm
Zero Mission still has a bit of hand holding but it's a bit less rigid than Fusion, they're just markers on the map rather than direct instructions from someone. Still, both of them have potential to section break and do things in a completely different order, missing 'essential' items completely. You should download some speed runs through them, they're quite fun and just left me open mouthed going "how did they work that out?" [/off topic]
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#32645 - Quirky - Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:28 pm
| gauauu wrote: |
| DekuTree64 wrote: |
....right in the first village, you're locked in and forced to go do everything you're 'supposed' to before you can leave. |
Well, dang it. Another classic ruined. And for them, another lost sale, since I won't be buying that one now that you warned me. |
Was this in FF1? Is that the bit where you go to the castle at the start? It's not *that* bad, since on the original, you didn't have too much freedom (go and see the king... or don't) the only difference on the GBA version is you jump to the throne room as soon as you enter the castle, right? The biggest difference is the difficulty - you have too much cash to spend and I was always several levels higher than on the NES in the same section, without really trying.
I finished FF1 yesterday, and niggles apart it is a lovely remake. The cracks show in the sheer number of random battles and the effects aren't cutting edge, but if you get your head round that then the gameplay is still fun. And the music is lovely! I miss these old-skool RPGs, villages with "new stuff" in them, overworld maps, dungeons, bosses, stats, levelling up... they work really well on the handheld. It's a shame Square didn't get round to porting the rest of the series.
#32672 - tepples - Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:30 pm
I could explain Metroid Fusion's hand-holding within the story line. Perhaps Samus's cognitive skills got damaged during the incident or during the blood transfusion from the metroid used to make the immunity, both mentioned in the opening cinema.
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-- Who?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#32687 - DekuTree64 - Sat Dec 25, 2004 12:43 am
| Quirky wrote: |
| Was this in FF1? Is that the bit where you go to the castle at the start? It's not *that* bad, since on the original, you didn't have too much freedom (go and see the king... or don't) the only difference on the GBA version is you jump to the throne room as soon as you enter the castle, right? |
Yeah, it was in FF1. I'm not sure exactly what was going on, but there were guys blocking all the exits to the town. It seems like he was on the overworld map at first though, just got trapped as soon as he went into the town. The reason it made me so mad is because I wanted to see what the new battle system was like, but didn't get to because of the blocks.
I probably did overreact a bit though, glad to hear it's not modified too much throughout the rest of the game.
How about FF2? That's my favorite game of all time, so I may still buy the combo if it's just as good as the original. Or even better, if it's the full original version and not the already trimmed down one we got here in the states before (mostly just some items removed, and the hiddens paths being visible)
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Therefore a fully optimized program doesn't exist.
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#32715 - sgeos - Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:43 am
| DekuTree64 wrote: |
| How about FF2? That's my favorite game of all time, so I may still buy the combo if it's just as good as the original. Or even better, if it's the full original version and not the already trimmed down one we got here in the states before (mostly just some items removed, and the hiddens paths being visible) |
It's the real FF2. A remake of the famicom game that never made it to the states on the NES. Square was a small company back then and Nintendo refused to release it because it was too graphically similar. Unless, of course, you were talking about the Playstation port.
-Brendan
#32717 - tepples - Sat Dec 25, 2004 6:29 am
Was the translation of FF2j to English in Final Fantasy Origins as butchered as the translation from FF4j to "Final Fantasy II" for Super NES?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#32718 - DalaiLiam - Sat Dec 25, 2004 6:44 am
I hate to say It but I'd like to see some DIABLO-esque games (w/a japaneese look) that focus on multiplayer.
Just need to find some way to apply a bit mroe of a storyline to it.
#32824 - Abscissa - Tue Dec 28, 2004 2:57 pm
| Quirky wrote: |
| The biggest difference is the difficulty - you have too much cash to spend and I was always several levels higher than on the NES in the same section, without really trying. |
Heh, that would probably be good for me. I don't think I've ever been able to beat a single battle on the NES FF1.
#32839 - tepples - Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:21 pm
In NES FF1, you had to make sure to buy and equip weapons before going into any area with random battles. Your bare fists aren't very strong.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#32847 - dagamer34 - Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:17 pm
Pokemon
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Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#32949 - Quirky - Wed Dec 29, 2004 3:35 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| In NES FF1, you had to make sure to buy and equip weapons before going into any area with random battles. Your bare fists aren't very strong. |
Unless you happen to be a monk :)
I'm a fair way through FF2 now, and it is "different" to other FFs (I haven't played the NES original before). I do miss the normal way of levelling up at times - I feel I should use magic just in case I need it to be better later - but it makes a change. Plus the story is fleshed out more than the first game.
As a history lesson it's interesting, you can see some common FF themes appearing (Cid, Chocobos, rebel armies, etc) and as a game it's pretty good too. But what's happened to the "fading out" of monsters when defeated? It looks like they got the hblank interrupt a bit off in the second game!
#32958 - tepples - Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:01 pm
| Quirky wrote: |
| I feel I should use magic just in case I need it to be better later |
XP on magic? Did someone say Materia Girl?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#33079 - sgeos - Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:09 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| In NES FF1, you had to make sure to buy and equip weapons before going into any area with random battles. Your bare fists aren't very strong. |
First time I tried FF1 I thought it was very hard. I got the ship before I figured out how to equip stuff. =P
-Brendan
#33104 - extrarice - Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:40 pm
| sgeos wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | In NES FF1, you had to make sure to buy and equip weapons before going into any area with random battles. Your bare fists aren't very strong. |
First time I tried FF1 I thought it was very hard. I got the ship before I figured out how to equip stuff. =P
-Brendan |
One word: damn.
I'll BET you thought it was hard!
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#33135 - sgeos - Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:47 am
I don't remember my party, but I bet I had at least a couple of mages. =P Mages suck less without equipment.
-Brendan
#100706 - cppdungeon - Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:45 pm
my all time favorite RPGS:
zelda ocorina of time (best zelda game)
good storyline, i liked the graphics (then), just challenging enough, catchy music...PERFECT
fire emblem 1/2
both 1 and 2 were good. i like the controls (very intuitive), the graphics, and the storylines. the duel storyline in #2 made me re-beat it.
FF tactics advanced
apperentyl i like tactics games. this game has good character specialization and development (as in changing stats, not the the characters character). it was also very free-form. it was like, well i can take this mission, or i can take this one...or this one...300+ MISSIONS. woot.
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#105554 - Dracker - Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:16 pm
I think the inclusion of the "Look at your map!" popup followed by "Seismic activity detected: GO HERE!!" in Metroid Prime was a terrible idea.
But who brought that up? Metroid games are not RPGs ;)
I liked the map->battle system of Super Mario RPG, Paper Mario, Mario&Luigi, Chrono Trigger. No random battles. You fight something if you run into it on the map. For the Mario RPGs, if you "jumped on the enemy to start the battle" you would get a free hit. I liked this better than the "You got surprised!" mechanic of Final Fantasy games where you or the opponent could RANDOMLY get an advantage (and for the record, I WASN'T surprised, I fully expected that battle!).
I don't consider Zelda an RPG - it's a realtime action game (I'd sooner compare it to Viewtiful Joe than Final Fantasy). But anyway, the Zelda games had a mechanic where the treasure in the dungeons game you a new ability that helped you explore new places in the dungeons and on the world map. THIS, rather than an elaborate plot (Though there WAS an elaborate plot for games like OoT), dictated where you could go next. But even so, you could do dungeons somewhat out of order. I liked that.
Fire emblem was also mentioned, and I say again that this not an RPG (It's RTS). But what I liked from FE was that there was a rock-paper-scissors advantage, though not a huge one, of weapons over other weapons -- not just magic. If you had an axe, you had an advantage over someone using a lance, and a disadvantage against someone with a sword.
#105562 - tepples - Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:02 pm
| Dracker wrote: |
| I don't consider Zelda an RPG - it's a realtime action game (I'd sooner compare it to Viewtiful Joe than Final Fantasy). But anyway, the Zelda games had a mechanic where the treasure in the dungeons game you a new ability that helped you explore new places in the dungeons and on the world map. THIS, rather than an elaborate plot (Though there WAS an elaborate plot for games like OoT), dictated where you could go next. But even so, you could do dungeons somewhat out of order. |
So Zelda is like Mega Man?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#105568 - gauauu - Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:34 pm
| tepples wrote: |
So Zelda is like Mega Man? |
No. In mega man, you gain an advantage for doing things in a correct order, as certain weapons are better against certain bosses, but in Zelda, you sometimes HAVE to to have completed a level to progress to the next (you had to get the raft from level 3 before getting to level 4).
Also, the levels were numbered, giving you some recommendation of order, even though you didn't have to strictly follow it.
#105573 - Optihut - Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:20 pm
| Dracker wrote: |
I think the inclusion of the "Look at your map!" popup followed by "Seismic activity detected: GO HERE!!" in Metroid Prime was a terrible idea.
But who brought that up? Metroid games are not RPGs ;) |
It was a great idea for the casual gamer who'd play a bit and then doesn't touch the game for a couple of weeks / months. At least with those hints I had a chance of completing it, without getting frustrated because I couldn't remember where I had been and how the map was set up. Then again, I mostly used a walkthrough anyway...
#105645 - gauauu - Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:46 pm
| Optihut wrote: |
| At least with those hints I had a chance of completing it, without getting frustrated because I couldn't remember where I had been and how the map was set up. Then again, I mostly used a walkthrough anyway... |
Wow, I guess it's people like you that are ruining gaming for people like me ;-)
For games like Metroid, I absolutely abhor the fact that they are getting more and more dumbed down. I want a game where I have to explore and try to find my way. What I DON'T want is a game where I simply walk through the content....the idea of using a walkthrough (or of built-in walkthroughs like those in the newer metroid games for GBA) bores me to tears.
#105647 - Sausage Boy - Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:55 pm
Getting stuck and having to walk around forever bores me to tears. Isn't there a hard mode or something that removes the hints for you freaks?
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#105655 - Optihut - Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:09 pm
| Sausage Boy wrote: |
| Getting stuck and having to walk around forever bores me to tears. Isn't there a hard mode or something that removes the hints for you freaks? |
Exactly right. I fear it's old age in my case: When I was younger I never used a walkthrough, but nowadays with the limited amount of freetime I have left, I do want to see the cool points (like the Metroid suit OS rebooting in Metroid Prime 2 after being hit by some energy beings) and the end cinematics of a game I buy, without having to look for some hidden key for hours. Also, as I said, it's nice if you can jump back into a game after you haven't played it for a while. If it weren't for the hint feature and walkthroughs this would be outright impossible in the Metroid Primes (unless you have a superhuman memory).
#105724 - Diirewolf - Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:00 pm
best imo was Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars prob because of the music and graphics which giv it that 'mario' feel. But forgetting about mario it was an amazing RPG in all ways.
#105725 - gauauu - Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:08 pm
| Optihut wrote: |
| but nowadays with the limited amount of freetime I have left, I do want to see the cool points (like the Metroid suit OS rebooting in Metroid Prime 2 after being hit by some energy beings) and the end cinematics of a game I buy, without having to look for some hidden key for hours. |
See, as I get older, I'm the other way around. I don't care at all about all the cinematics or the "cool points". I want to play the game, which includes looking for a key for hours. That's the fun part to me.
What makes me impatient is when I can't skip the cinematics and other "cool points."
Ok, but enough tangenting. My favorite RPGs are:
1. Crystalis
2. FF1
3. Champions of Krynn (the old SSI computer game)
#105744 - Optihut - Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:00 pm
| gauauu wrote: |
| See, as I get older, I'm the other way around. I don't care at all about all the cinematics or the "cool points". I want to play the game, which includes looking for a key for hours. That's the fun part to me. |
Fair enough. Fortunately we both have the freedom to read or not read walkthroughs and the help function in Metroid Prime could be disabled as well (afaik). So we both get to play the way we want to - everybody wins ;)
As for my favourite roleplaying games:
I enjoyed the Ultima series up to part 6; never really got into 7, which usually is considered the best. To me part 6 was the peak of the series.
While not really being RPGs, I also loved the two Diablo games.
#107772 - Maple - Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:45 pm
| Optihut wrote: |
| It was a great idea for the casual gamer who'd play a bit and then doesn't touch the game for a couple of weeks / months. At least with those hints I had a chance of completing it, without getting frustrated because I couldn't remember where I had been and how the map was set up. |
I kind of dig the "Log Book" hint system in Okami. It's more of a memory jog than hand-holding. All of the hints are just quotes from the NPCs you interact with. Usually it seems to tell you what just happened in the present and you can infer the next step from there. That way I'm not really that worse off if I step away from the game for a week or two, either. I also like the way that Issun (the Navi of the game) will give you stronger suggestions when you screw up a few times.
#108897 - OOPMan - Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:48 pm
Let me see, that would be Planescape: Torment. One of the only RPGs that wasn't ever focused on saving the world, combat and the other cliched crap you see in mosr RPGs.
In my opinion this was one of the best, if not the best, RPGs ever made. Too bad it didn't sell well. It's unlikely anything as deep and philosiphical as this one will be made for a long time...
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#108906 - gauauu - Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:27 pm
crap, I forgot about shadowrun for the SNES. Definitely one of the best RPGs out there.
#120361 - RegalSin - Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:11 am
My favorite is
Tales Of Phantasia TOP took the Fighting game elements and brought them to the RPG world. The storyline and plot is Pangea based and while being your Average RPG it just blows me away. Never have I seen, read, or listen to a game like this in my life. I research earlier works of the creators and the games that they have been involved n shows there strengths and weakness in there various feilds. The game itself is just fun and the only other thing that ever nearly top this game was........SO
The antaganist or badguy is like the ultimate badguy in all RPG universe.
This guy was trying to save his world by taking what another world never really needed. However he failed and kept trying. He took control of all animals, monsters, Ninjas, and anybody or anything that could aid his goal. The character was like Vega and Ganons Love child. I felt ???? when i found out he was trying to save his world.
I dislike the Tale Series after this game. I mean it just does not feel the same as before I mean where is the soul.
Star Ocean
Star Ocean almost did the impossible create a 3d atmosphere world that is in a action RPG like state. It had alternative Endings, and extra chracters. The game itself was ausome and intense where you could be there for days fighting untile there is no end. It also went back to it's roots.
The antagonist here is not a big deal but I like the refrence to him ( from a certain movie ) and then we find the true antaganist is some perfected cyborg who is hatefilled on purpose and is prgramed to hate earth. I really hate the fact this whole thing went to Next Generation and back again.
I also like the Blue Sphere Spin off. The Second game is kinda bleh and the third game I have yet to try but looks bleh repeat.
EarthBound Series
OMG if TOP never did a good job and was like every other game out there then the Mother Series would be on top. I mean while the FPS RPG is negleted I still love to play them. This game is grand. You all should checkout "Wild Zero" the movie which is kinda borrowing from Mother.
I could play this game forever. I wish they released the N64 game already. All three games is okay but man oh man. Game Over.
Romancing Saga
I have never fully played any game in this series but it is refreshing from the same Final Fantasy based games. I love the theme and action and will look forward to playing these games even more.
Golden Sun is the last of the Shining series. I never fully played those games but Golden Sun was something back then. I even compared it to TOP.
I love the way how they traveled to the ends of the Earth and it left us with a cliff hanger.
However I hate the sequel. It is like erasist junk from the Lotr movies. I mean why oh god why did they do it.
Zelda Series
I loved Zelda alot more but now not anymore the games are too corney and Nintendo stop being Nintendo when they released th GCN. The last good Zelda was OOT. The new ones is not my thing.
Great Greed
Is probably one of the most intresting games you will play. I mean it has the save the planet atmosphere we need now and the gameplay in unique.
ShadowRun
To be honest the Snes game I own and finished is grand but the Genisis game I recently played is too much like Gautlet with the monster swarms regenerating. I get tired of fighting Monsters everytime. I mean is there every a break time?
I have a RPG idea like this world senario but then again I really wish the genisis game was less like Secret Of Mana and more like the Snes game but then agian I can't argue with Senario.
personally I wish the upcomming RPG is a failure. Yes I do not own a 360.
Rockman Legends
I know people wil say this and that but this is my favorite Rockman. Finally we get something that gives us the world of Ruby Spheres Megaman and is not bad. It is like what Zelda should have done also. The game is perfect for a Action/RPG/ or even Adventure.
I love the interaction with the enviorment and how you get around with auto skates. The Lego-man/Metols are halarious and the bonnes is my new favorite villians.
I mean why have they not released a Rockman Legends III. I mean if they did now on a newer system I would be like ??? Still this game had so many diffrent outcomes to built upon. Why did they not give us a cartoon already. Then again why bother when the game is perfect already. However the second game is kind of ifi if you know what I mean.
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#129230 - Karatorian - Sun May 20, 2007 8:28 pm
My two favorite RPG are rather different.
Final Fantasy Series
I personally love the FF series. I discovered it when I aquired an original NES cart of FF, years after the NES was outdated. I still have it and it's one of my most treasured possesions. (Now I just need a NES that'll stay working long enough to beat it without eating my save. I have the PS port and have beat it, but it's slightly easier because you can save more often.)
Of the series, I tend to feel the 2D ones are better. My personal favorites are FF and FF6, but their are elements of the whole series I really enjoy. The job system that first appered in FF3 (I've played part of the fan translation), was expaned in FF5 (I've got the PS port), and was magnificently done in FFT is one of the better features that hasn't appeared in recent versions.
I really like the ATB system, but I do agree that in the 3D PS games, it got too slow. The summons are cool, but when first implimented, they where kinda boring (and very slow). The later PS2 games fixed this by allowing you to control a summon like a normal character, but it's kind of annoying that the rest of your party can't fight at the same time.
I like the equipment system in the older games and am saddened to see it dumbed down in more recent incarnations. In the early games, weapon choice meant something. For instance, swords and axes are the two main fighter (or knight) weapons. Swords are more accurate and do more consistant damage, whereas axes are less accurate and do a wider range of damage, but are more powerful. In the later games, these sorts of choices seem less abundant.
One thing you shouldn't copy from FF is the fact that everything drops gold. That makes no sense to me. While I haven't played it myself, some of what WoW does in the monster treasure department makes mores sense to me.
Nethack
Nethack is a bit of an odd game, but I love it. It's a pure dungeon crawl. The plot is a cliched "fetch the dingus and get out alive". The levels are all randomly generated. If you die, you have to start over. And to top it all off are the horrendously outdated ASCII graphics.
But what makes it great is the sheer number of items and interativity they have. No matter what class you are, you can wear any armor, weild any weapon, or learn any spell. Whether you'll be any good at it is another matter, but you can do it. You an weild any object you desire as a weapon. Most of them aren't very good, some are interesting. For instance, you can use the body of a cockatrice to petrify your enemies, but you need to wear glove so you don't petrify yourself in the process.
Items can be blesses or cursed in addition to other magics. When you find a magic item, you don't know it. If it's a weapon or armor, you only know what type it is. If it's a wand or spellbook, or something like that, it's got a random description. There are ways to find out what stuff is. You can uses spells or you can experiment. You can enchant non-magical equipment, or enhance the magic of enchanted equipment with scrolls. You can bless (or uncurse) stuff with holy water.
You have to eat, or you'll starve. Most food rots with time, but you can eat anything edible, including the corpses of monsters (and people). Stuff you eat can have affects on you. You can get food poisoning, become confused, get drunk, start hallucinating, find a fortune in a fortune cookie, or gain strange magical powers. If you defeat a monster, you get all it's equipment (along with it's body).
Of all the stuff I've mentioned, that's just the surface. There are loads more features I've left out, forgotten, or haven't discovered yet. I've yet to play any other RPG with a fraction of the depth of Nethack. (I know they're out there. They're a group of games known a rouge-likes.) A would be RPG designer could add a lot to thier design by studying Nethack and co.
In Conclusion
So I guess I like games with lots of options and stategic depth. A good storyline is nice, but not essensial. I really dislike the trend in modern RPGs to not let me name my characters. I don't care for the simplification of once complex systems and I like my cut scenes short. I prefer an open world where I can wander about at will.
#130580 - burito - Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:20 pm
I'm glad someone mentioned nethack and ultima... but.. ULTIMA RANT!!!
Ultima VII: part one or two, both are cool. But different.U7P2: Serpent Isle was more hand holding, only at the end of the game did you have free reign to run around anywhere, but had a much stronger plot because of it.
U7P1: Black Gate, started you in a single town, walled off from the world. After you'd done some basic detective work (figureout out the basics of a murder) you tell the mayor that the murderer skipped town on a boat, the Crown Jewel, he then gives you the password to get out of the town... and bam. There you are, in the biggest game world not in an Elder Scrolls game.
The BEST thing about Ultima7 tho, is that you were supposed to be the hero of all that is good, but in reality you stole everything that wasn't bolted down, and came back at night time with bolt cutters for what was.
My favourite trick was, go to the Royal Mint, kill the lady who worked at the front counter, and run (cuz guards came to kill/arrest you), come back after you had payed you dues (either bribes or jail), search her corpse for the key, unlock the mint, steal the gold, come back out and ressurect her, then sell her the gold bulion.
Combat was also great, just hit "c" and all your party would run off and kill anything that was hostile, or die trying.
Monsters had realistic possetions. None of this "You got 4gp and 5exp from killing the deer", killing a deer got you deer meat. And a criminal record if the deer belonged to anyone, and you got seen killing it. Killing a crocodile would often result in you finding a human arm inside it. Or maybe a whole baby if the croc was lucky.
And in the event that the entire party got slaughtered (it happened), the main character would always get ressurected in a town just south of the capitol. It was your duty to drop your backpack, head back to the battle site, grab a companion, and lug their body back to a healer to get ressurected, then the 2 of you would go back, and grab 2 more bodies, and eventually with everyone alive again, you'd make a final run to get everyone's backpacks and armour back.
You could buy a horse and carrage, you could buy a boat (seasoned players know where the magic carpet is). You could forge your own weapons, from iron you mined yourself. You could bake bread. Starvation wasnt an issue like in nethack, rather a major nuisance, people would pass out from hunger, and whine and moan about it.
It even had a spell called Armageddon, which you could cast, and yes, it killed everything in the world, except for you and your party.
Everyone had a life. People would wake up, have breakfast, go to work, work all day, go to the tavern after work for dinner and some ale, then head home to go to sleep.
Lastly... it was the subtler things... the moral dilemmas. A good example (from ultima 9 instead though), was in one dungeon, you encountered a little girl. When you talked to her, she told the story of how some orc's had given her a poison, for which the antidote was several days travel away. She was going to die an agonizing death. And then she begged for you to save her from the pain, by killing her. The Ultima's prided themselves on prodding you with questions like this, for which there was no right answer. Ultima 6's character creation rather than asking you what class you wanted, asked you questions and picked a class from your answers. An example...
Your friend lies mortally wounded on the battlefield, and asks you "How fares the battle, milord?", you can see the enemy forces are overwhelming your position, and you must retreat soon. Do you...
Tell him your winning, knowing he will die in peace.
Tell him the truth, knowing tis better not to lie.
So yeah, Ultima 7 is the game with a fraction of the interactivity of nethack. A tiny fraction, but nothing comes close to Ultima7 in interactivity or detail. No, not even Oblivion. Not even close.
Think of Ultima 7 as "Nethack for people who are sick of dying, and want graphics, and a plot would be nice too, thanks". Even if the graphics are primitive by todays standards, us DS folks wont complain. Tis a pity an Origin employee was quoted "Ultima 9 is not about baking bread". I liked baking bread. And being the evil "Good Guy".
#169680 - GugloPWN - Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:41 pm
| Sausage Boy wrote: |
| Getting stuck and having to walk around forever bores me to tears. Isn't there a hard mode or something that removes the hints for you freaks? |
There is. In the first Metroid Prime you could turn off the hints. I don't think that was true in Metroid Prime 3 though.
#169707 - Karatorian - Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:08 pm
Seeing as some necro'd this thread, I decided to add a few things to my earlier post and reply to a few things I didn't notice before.
| expos1994 wrote: |
| Final Fantasy III (translated Rom, I think there's an SNES and PSX release of the game)... good story. |
Sorry, no such luck. FFIII wasn't ever ported to the PS (or SNES, thinking of VI perhaps?) and wasn't (officially) translated into English until the DS remake. The still isn't a 2D version for a modern platform. This kinda annoys me.
| gauauu wrote: |
| DekuTree64 wrote: | | ....right in the first village, you're locked in and forced to go do everything you're 'supposed' to before you can leave. |
Well, dang it. Another classic ruined. And for them, another lost sale, since I won't be buying that one now that you warned me. |
Actually, it's not that bad. They do lock you into seeing the first cut scene (wherein, the king tells you to rescue the princess, etc.), but after that, it's just like the original (which was pretty railroaded at first anyway, but opens up later). I've beaten it and now I'm wondering whether I should beat the bonus dungeons, or run through the game with the notoriously difficult four white mages party =_=
As for the topic at hand, I'm come across a few new favorites and have some comments on other games mentioned.
Chrono Trigger
I recently played through the PS port (I got in with with a FF (4?) and never bothered to play it) and I think it's one of Square's best. Most of it's pretty standard Square RPG stuff, but the strategic level is deeper (boss fights require thought or you loose), the lack of random encounters is nice, and the story owns. Plus there's several endings to unlock and New Game+ to make that easier.
The time travel has to be the most innovative and fun part. For some reason I just love changing history. It's kinda like Light World vs Dark World puzzles in Zelda 3, but more complex and tied into the plot in an integral way (at times, other times it's just sidequest stuff).
Fallout 3
Does it count? It's kinda an action RPG / FPS thing, but definetly got RPG roots. I never player the first two and only got to play a little bit of 3 before my brother moved away and took the 360 with him, but it's an awsome game. If you've got a current console (is there a PC version?), get it.
Dragon Warrior
I've only ever played the first one and I kinda like it, but it's got some issues. Mainly it's the difficulty. The game's not actually that hard, except if you're where you're not supposed to be.
The game world is wide open and you can wander about pretty freely. There's nothing wrong with that, but the random encounter balance is screwy. It's staggeringly easy to get in over your head with no warning whatsoever.
One second you'll be fighting boring stuff that dies in one hit and the next you're fighting what may as well be the final boss for all the chances you have of winning. It wouldn't be that bad if you could just retreat, but as they're that much higher level than you, trying to run away fails too and you just die faster.
These sudden jumps in monster dificulty also mean you have to grind a lot to be able to explore. I don't mind a nice grind now and then, but in DW it's tedious. This is because of the uneven difficulty curve. After leveling a bit, the stuff you can handle is boring and almost pointless, but you're still too weak to move on.
So you have to grind low level garbage, or you have to explore for a nice area to powerlevel in. While doing so, it's quite likely you'll find some more powerful enemies, but the odds are pretty good that they're as bad or worse than what you're trying to level up to beat, so you die (and loose any XP you did manage to gain).
This is the main reason I've never beaten the game dispite having had an NES cart of it for years. It's also the reason I never bothered to look into the rest of the series (which I hear is quite good).
Final Fantasy XII
As a hardcore FF fan, I guess this should be obvious, but it deserved mention. For starters, with XII, Square-Enix actually made some signifigant changes to the basic engine. It's still Final Fantasy at the core, but many of the shortcommings of the earlier 3d titles have been overcome and the really new stuff (like no random encounters) is awesome. I've liked Ivalice as a setting since Tactics, so that's a plus too. I've only played a little bit of the game (too many other things to do), but it's good stuff so far.
Metroid
Ok, not an RPG, and not one of my all time favorites either, but seeing as the thread got derailed and I've been playing it lately, I'll chime in. I rather like the original Metroid and this is despite the fact that I suck at twitch games and as such tend to be unhappy with them. I still die constantly, but in this case I actually enjoy it a lot more than other similar games.
Firstly is the open world (one of gaming's earliest), which allows you to go do whatever you want. You never feel railroaded despite the fact that you sometimes need power-ups to get to some places. There's almost always several places to go and exploring is fun. I won't be winning and speedrunning contests, but I can see how that would be another fun aspect for those who're twitchier than I am.
To get a little bit back on topic, an RPG designer could learn a lot from Metroid. In a famous typing of RPG players (done for MUDs, but somewhat generalizable), explorer is one of the archetypes and a good RPG should provide for that.
I've never played any of the later games (not even the critic and fan acclaimed Super Metroid), but from the comments in this thread, it sounds like the explorational aspect has been nerfed lately. That's pretty sad because, it's about the one thing that makes Metroid stand out from other similar games (for me).
#169709 - wallacoloo - Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:18 pm
I tend to like final fantasy games the best. That's because of their battle system mostly.
Try to avoid:
Too much talking. A storyline IS important, but it can't interrupt gameplay! If there is a lot of talking allow the user to skip it if they want.
Too much walking around.
Repetitive battles. Nobody wants to fight the same type of battles over and over.
I find that games with some form of branching gameplay seem to be more fun. The user should have choices of what to do/where to go. Also, if the user gets stuck on one quest, there should be other quests he can take to help him level up. Don't get this confused with grinding. Grinding is BAD.
Action or turn based battles can both be fine.
For handheld systems, action battles can be a little tougher though.
On the DS, the touch screen can allow for some pretty cool action battles. But on the GBA, I would suggest turn based battles.
Well, after previewing the post, I realize that this thread is 5 years old. But I figured I'll go ahead and post this anyways.
#169710 - sgeos - Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:25 pm
| wallacoloo wrote: |
Try to avoid:
Too much talking. A storyline IS important, but it can't interrupt gameplay!
|
Are you making a game or an interactive novel?
#169728 - wallacoloo - Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:57 pm
| sgeos wrote: |
| wallacoloo wrote: | Try to avoid:
Too much talking. A storyline IS important, but it can't interrupt gameplay!
|
Are you making a game or an interactive novel? |
Haha. Well I just played Fire Emblem for the GBA. That game has more talking than playing!