#73825 - gauauu - Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:56 am
I wanted to get people's opinions about this game design standard...unlockable content.
My opinion tends to be that I HATE it, but there's got to be a reason they (they being the game industry in general) keep using it, so I wanted to ask.
I tend to feel that if I bought the game, I want to be able to play all of it, without having to do some stupid thing to unlock content. Sometimes you buy or rent a game solely for multiplayer. Why, then, should I have to play through the game SINGLE player, in order to get to play all the different arenas for multiplayer? I'll never understand.
The worst was when I bought rayman 2 for dreamcast. (after the dreamcast was already a dead system, I bought the game for $5). The back of the box advertised 4-player minigames. But it turned out, you had to unlock them to play them. And to unlock them, you had to use the dreamcast's built-in web browser to navigate to the company's long-since-removed website, which would store certain data on your save pack and unlock the game. So basically, I bought the game for certain content, which turned out to be "locked", and I couldn't access it.
WHY?
So my question: what is the motivation for this? does it add value in some way? do gamers (other than me) want this? or is it just some stupid unwanted thing that developers keep forcing on players?
Now I'm not specifically referring to very minor bonus content, like the hidden characters in Tony Hawk 3. Although fun, they didn't add much to the game, so I didn't feel cheated that they were locked at the beginning (and they did add value for me, causing me to replay the game over and over to unlock them). But the fact that I couldn't play levels in multiplayer until I had gotten to them in single player? That made me so mad.
Ok, please, someone, explain to me the other side of the coin (surely there is one?)
#73835 - SeanMon - Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:22 am
The goal of unlockables, I think, should be a combination of motivating the player to try to unlock them, but also to draw them back in for more.
For example, a game might have upgradable weapons that can be purchased with game money. After the player beats the game, though, he unlocks a more challenging game mode, enticing him to play the game again.
#73836 - tepples - Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:30 am
Then why do games have time-limited unlockables that can never be unlocked if they are not unlocked before a certain Real World date?
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#73837 - gauauu - Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:34 am
| SeanMon wrote: |
| The goal of unlockables, I think, should be a combination of motivating the player to try to unlock them, but also to draw them back in for more. |
I generally agree...see my comment about the hidden characters on Tony Hawk.
But I think they often defeat their own purpose....I can't figure out how things like preventing me from playing most of the levels of the game is supposed to keep me coming back for more.
| Tepples wrote: |
| Then why do games have time-limited unlockables that can never be unlocked if they are not unlocked before a certain Real World date? |
Is there really a game that does that? If so, please tell me what it is so I can know to NEVER buy it. That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
#73838 - tepples - Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:37 am
| gauauu wrote: |
| Tepples wrote: | | Then why do games have time-limited unlockables that can never be unlocked if they are not unlocked before a certain Real World date? |
Is there really a game that does that? If so, please tell me what it is so I can know to NEVER buy it. That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. |
rayman 2 for dreamcast, as you mentioned. If you don't unlock them before the web server goes down, you can't ever unlock them.
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#73840 - SeanMon - Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:44 am
Animal Crossing: Wild World, in many ways, has time-limited unlockables, but there are so many of them that you can't realistically "unlock" them all, so I don't feel cheated by the system. Rayman 2, on the other hand, now I would have wanted to kill whoever put those unlockables in.
#73942 - gauauu - Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:18 am
Ha, I'm dumb. Here you were referring to my example and I didn't realize it.
Yeah, I was really ticked about the rayman example. Especially because it ADVERTISED those features on the back of the game box.
Last edited by gauauu on Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:40 am; edited 1 time in total
#73945 - sajiimori - Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:28 am
Progression in most single-player games can be seen as unlocking successive levels or abilities.
A coworker has been playing the new Street Fighter for PSP and unlocking tons of abilities and powerups, which enables him to tackle more powerful CPU opponents. It's like levelling up in an RPG.
#73950 - tepples - Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:52 am
So why does one need to unlock things in one mode that are only useful in a completely separate mode? For instance, why does one need to play single player to unlock new abilities in multiplayer?
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#73955 - sajiimori - Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:17 am
*Shrug.* I probably wouldn't endorse that.
#73978 - byg - Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:56 am
I don't know. If it wasn't essential to the core game I don't think it would be a maor problem. For example, unlocking extra skins or playable characters (for multiplayer) in the single-player game might actually encourage people to play the multi-player game.
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#73980 - chishm - Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:28 am
Perhaps the unlockable multiplayer content is there to give the player some sense of accomplishment for wasting time on the single player mode.
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#73981 - keldon - Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:39 am
I thought the unlockable cheats in goldeneye were ace. Just having the invincibility [facility] cheat proved yourself amongst a higher class of gamer.
#74008 - sumiguchi - Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:48 pm
| Quote: |
| Perhaps the unlockable multiplayer content is there to give the player some sense of accomplishment for wasting time on the single player mode. |
Or maybe the single player lacks lustre - so the only reason to keep playing is to unlock the stuff that you WANT to play.
At the minimum - if there is unlockable content on a multiplayer game - it should be possible to unlock that content in multiplayer. (I always think it is dumb when this isn't the case - ie. Wave Race Blue Storm -fun multiplayer game - but you have to go through in single player mode <yawn> to unlock new tracks)
#74009 - Palamon - Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:01 pm
One situation to lock some things in multiplayer mode, mainly levels, until unlocked in single player mode is to not spoil the storyline of single player mode.
Leaving any twists in the storyline hidden.
Without that, if you played the multiplayer level (especially if the multiplayer levels are really similar to the single player ones) it would ruin the sense of discovery when playing the single player mode. Plus you would have a good idea what happens thoughout the single player story even before you play the single player game.
#74020 - SeanMon - Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:34 pm
| sumiguchi wrote: |
| At the minimum - if there is unlockable content on a multiplayer game - it should be possible to unlock that content in multiplayer. |
Metroid Prime: Hunters has this I have heard: you can't use the different bounty hunters unless you either see them in the single-player, or you beat an opponent who is playing as them in multiplayer.
#74030 - byg - Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:34 pm
| sumiguchi wrote: |
| Quote: | | Perhaps the unlockable multiplayer content is there to give the player some sense of accomplishment for wasting time on the single player mode. |
Or maybe the single player lacks lustre - so the only reason to keep playing is to unlock the stuff that you WANT to play. |
In my view the actual game itself should primarily foster a sense of accomplishment just by completing a level or task and making it to the next stage. As someone mentioned before, the entire game can be viewed as a sequence of unlockables - once you complete one level you can access the next. It's the challenge/reward scenario. 'Extra' unlockables are a bonus. If the game is a waste of time, I don't think many people will bother playing it just to unlock extra content.
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#74047 - keldon - Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:02 am
Like I was saying about goldeneye - the feature is not the only accomplishment. Being able to show someone that you finished facility in under 2 minutes is something to revel in.
I for sure found unlocking the goldeneye cheats much more fun than some games completely. It gave me a reason to play a game I had already completed. It tied into their idea of having different levels of difficulty for each level - and unlocking a cheat through skillful playing is in a sense just a more difficult mission.
#74049 - shen3 - Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:04 am
It is a pain that most games you don't even know what most of the unlockable stuff is, or how to unlock it.
It would be good if a game would show every unlockable thing, and what needs to be done to unlock it.
Eg
Battle Fortress Mode - Beat normal game 5 times
Extra Costume for Chun Li - Beat Chun Li with Guile
etc etc.
Then the player at least knows what to do to get the things without having to go to gamefaqs.
As a real world example Advance Wars DS has 300 medals you can get. Once you unlock the first of each type of medal, you know you just need to do that thing x number of times to get the other 2 medals. Why not just show all the areas + number needed for each medal?
Shen
#75792 - Ultima2876 - Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:57 am
It adds depth - it's optional content. Making time limited content is dumb, but as long as everything is unlockable, I love to try and unlock everything. I love the feeling of having a perfect game - especially if the challenges are incredibly difficult, such that I knew I'm better than a lot of other people for doing them.
I'm an arrogant showoff - but I sure do love to try and unlock everything.
#75806 - tepples - Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:17 am
| Ultima2876 wrote: |
| I love the feeling of having a perfect game - especially if the challenges are incredibly difficult, such that I knew I'm better than a lot of other people for doing them. |
Start up DDR, plug in a dance pad, and get a AAA on Max 300 on heavy. Unless you're Yasu, you might get a heart attack before a perfect game.
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#75811 - gauauu - Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:31 am
| Ultima2876 wrote: |
| It adds depth - it's optional content. |
I think the difference is the fact that it's optional content. Not the main content of the game itself.
Going back to your goldeneye example, we played the game entirely for multiplayer. Many games nowadays do crap like not letting you play more than one multiplayer level until you've played through enough of the single player game. It's as if, instead of unlocking extra characters and cheats, you were unlocking multiplayer mode itself. That's the difference in my book.
#75829 - keldon - Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:10 am
| tepples wrote: |
| Ultima2876 wrote: | | I love the feeling of having a perfect game - especially if the challenges are incredibly difficult, such that I knew I'm better than a lot of other people for doing them. |
Start up DDR, plug in a dance pad, and get a AAA on Max 300 on heavy. Unless you're Yasu, you might get a heart attack before a perfect game. |
I once saw this fat guy; and I know that this sentence does not adhere to that of which one would write in a language exam; but I have just watched a tarrantino film so for this once lets make an honourable exception.
I was walking through the local arcade; and as you would normally do in an arcade I thought that I might have a watch at this fat guy playing DDR. Now it is more than obvious where I am going with this but, as we all know, the expectation of an event, the anticipation of the climax only adds to its effect.
Now back to this guy. He inserts his pound coin into the arcade and appears to be listening to the songs, choosing one that he likes. Now I'm no statistician, or psychic for that matter, but I had an incline that he might like a more heavy metal type song than the more dancy tunes that he had listened to so far. So it was no surprise when he took an interest in the most rock-like song, MAX 300. But we all know that even no beginner should attempt this, even at the beginner level. But we weren't to say a word, and he weren't to know. Besides who doesn't like seeing a fat guy try his witts at MAX 300; the poor thing.
Now selecting the song's difficulty, he seems to like the look of the word maniac. And I can only assume it is somehow connected to his rock and roll attitude and his ignorance to the meaning of the words, standard, difficult, and maniac. And again, who doesn't like seeing a fat guy try his witts at MAX 300.
Now I can say that this would have been a good time for a gambling man. Because here we have a fat guy, MAX 300, and a moment where the game of odds might have an enjoyable time.
Now back to tepples obsession, admiration, or interest - if you may, "getting a AAA on Max 300 on heavy[maniac in the UK]". Because with the asian culture in the UK, we do get to see many great gamers in the west end. But as for this fat guy; and I'm not sure what the likelihood of him recieving a heart attack was, but I think it would be a crime not to put it somewhere above a hundred if this likelihood was a percentage. Now he was not obese, but was over the average weight to say the least. And after his antics had us all in a state of shock and disarray, he earned himself a well deserved AAA - and I honestly did think about heart attacks at that moment. But I guess I learned something that day about judging a book by its cover ^_^
#75835 - byg - Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:42 am
| keldon wrote: |
| ... and I know that this sentence does not adhere to that of which one would write in a language exam; but I have just watched a tarrantino film so for this once lets make an honourable exception. |
I'm glad you haven't just watched Memento. Then again, maybe we'd get to your point quicker :-)
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#75841 - keldon - Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:49 pm
| byg wrote: |
| keldon wrote: | | ... and I know that this sentence does not adhere to that of which one would write in a language exam; but I have just watched a tarrantino film so for this once lets make an honourable exception. |
I'm glad you haven't just watched Memento. Then again, maybe we'd get to your point quicker :-) |
Yes; it is by far my dumbest forum post ever. But you've got to give me credit for trying. The idea came and I just went off at a tangent.
#76081 - Ultima2876 - Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:47 am
| tepples wrote: |
| Ultima2876 wrote: | | I love the feeling of having a perfect game - especially if the challenges are incredibly difficult, such that I knew I'm better than a lot of other people for doing them. |
Start up DDR, plug in a dance pad, and get a AAA on Max 300 on heavy. Unless you're Yasu, you might get a heart attack before a perfect game. |
Yeah, but DDR is mad ;P
Obviously, I can't perfect every game -- as if I'm that good XDD
EDIT: I'll make a semi useful post. The multiplayer thing - I see your point, and it's a good one, but in my game I'm having it so that you can only play levels (whether multiplayer or single player) if you've completed them before. If you complete a level in single player it is "unlocked" for multiplayer and single player - if you do it in multiplayer it is only unlocked for multiplayer, and the "session" won't carry over to if you start playing with someone else.
I will also have additional multiplayer levels available as rewards for various tasks - but this is optional content ;P
#76212 - gauauu - Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:38 pm
| Ultima2876 wrote: |
| The multiplayer thing - I see your point, and it's a good one, but in my game I'm having it so that you can only play levels (whether multiplayer or single player) if you've completed them before. If you complete a level in single player it is "unlocked" for multiplayer and single player - if you do it in multiplayer it is only unlocked for multiplayer, and the "session" won't carry over to if you start playing with someone else. |
Why? What's the advantage or draw of doing it this way?
#77208 - Pastek - Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:22 am
in my opinion this is a way developers found to extend life duration of their game.
#77474 - APL - Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:17 am
(I know I'm joining this conversation late, but I'm going to input my two cents anyway.)
I know there's a big game design debate about which is more important, the fact that unlocking game content gives the player a sense of accomplishment and extends replay value, or the fact that the player has a right to do whatever he wants with the software he's purchased.
My feeling on the matter is that a compromise exists, It's certainly not the perfect solution that will bring peace to both sides of this argument, but it's enough to keep most of us gamers happy. This compromise is to include cheat codes that allow the player to bypass the unlocking while being forced to acknowledge that he is, in fact, cheating.
While I enjoy playing to unlock cool stuff, I am bothered by games that presume to force me to play the game even if I want to cheat. Why would I want to cheat? For example, what if I bring in a game to work for the multi player? If I can't put in a cheat code, I wind up bringing my save card in too.
Worse, when our save-game for "Red Dead Revolver" went corrupt, nobody still had a save-game at home we could copy. So someone actually had to take the game home for a weekend and play through the game even though we were all only interested in the multi player. If we could have simply looked up a "unlock all" cheat code on GameFaqs we would have been all set!
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#77796 - sgeos - Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:19 am
An unlock all cheat that drops a "cheater" trophy on the save data?
-Brendan
#78950 - MrD - Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:18 pm
What if you hit the goals legit after gaining Cheater status?
(This is what Grand Theft Auto > III does, btw)
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#83181 - Natso - Sat May 13, 2006 10:06 pm
then you did so by cheating. i like this idea :D
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#87422 - clockworkengine - Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:32 pm
If you've still yet to unlock that Rayman 2 content, you probably could with a gameshark.
#87434 - gauauu - Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:46 pm
which would require buying a gameshark....