#124035 - khan - Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:47 pm
Hi,
I really enjoy programming and I have achieved really high marks at University in several programming based modules so I was wondering if we have a GUI based development tools for NDS i.e. Flash/VB.NET/Dreamweaver etc?
Best place to start for a noob?
Regards,
-Khan
Sorry - If it's in the wrong section
#124041 - Lick - Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:35 pm
Sorry to disappoint you, but there isn't such a method.
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#124906 - tondopie - Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:47 pm
If there was, to many noobs would make random stuff that would fill up everywhere and no one would be able to keep track of all the homebrew
#124908 - relpats_eht - Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:55 pm
tondopie, might I ask how bringing homebrew into mainstream would be a bad thing? What does it matter if it is hard to catalog or of low quality, more participation equals recognition and acceptance.
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#124909 - tondopie - Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:56 pm
that is true... perhaps the makers of such a GUI would be able to host the finished projects on their site.
#124941 - M3d10n - Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:28 am
Sorry, I don't see how that's "bringing homebrew into mainstream".
If someone makes a DS Flash player, capable of script execution, your game will still be a Flash game which also happens to play on the DS, not a DS game. In the end of the day, you learned nothing about doing a game on the DS hardware.
It might seem "unfair" that only those who know C/C++ can have the "pleasure" of seeing their work running on a different platform other than a PC or a Mac, but consider this: if you have the skill, you can either use it for your own projects and be proud on your own creations, or you can spend it all creating a tool for allowing tons of people with supposedly less skill can start bragging all over the net about how they can make DS games, when it was actually you who did the "DS" part. (Not to mention the insane amount of shit you'd need to put up with people constantly asking for features, complaining about bugs, etcetera, etcetera.)
It would take an amount of altruism and self-sacrifice not available on the majority of human beings.
Wanna see your stuff on a console/handheld? Learn how to do it. Nobody is going to do all the work plus a nice UI for you for free, sorry. No company would do it commercially either, for many reasons.
Sorry if it sounds harsh, but this kind of stuff gets asked too many times.
#124949 - OOPMan - Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:39 am
Of course we have GUI-based tools. Ever head of Visual Studio? You can use that to write DS code. KDevelop also works well. I've used Netbeans with the C/C++ plugin as well, and also played with Eclipse + CDT. Plain 'ol text editors work fine as well though.
What are you actually asking?
Do we have GUI-based tools for RAD on the DS? The answer to that is no and shall probably remain so. RAD-style development doesn't really apply in this environment. You're not going to be able to string a DS app together by dragging and dropping stuff.
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You can find my NDS homebrew projects here...
#124953 - khan - Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:29 am
How do guys can make homebrew games/app on the DS and place graphics exactly where they want? by GUI-based I meant so I could simply drag n drop 2d sprites/backgrounds onto the screen etc... w/o any guess work.
OOPMan: Would I need any special plug-ins as I have got experience with Visual Studio 2003( i think) at Uni. BTW can someone plz link me to a very basic tutorial in explaining DS stuff.
Thanks
#124955 - OOPMan - Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:52 am
Like I said Khan, there is no Quick-And-Easy way to make games for the DS. The same is true of games dev in general. Did you really imagine that games were produced with RAD-style tools?
With regards to Visual Studio, there are instructions on the devkitPro website for using Visual Studio to develop DS homebrew software. Works pretty well, from what I recall, just a little more tricky to setup than using makefiles plain...
I afraid that if you are under the general impression that coding (In any field, not just games and homebrew dev) is 90% drag-n-drop and 10% coding then you are in for a shock.
Development is hard work, and DS dev is no different.
With regards to tutorials, please read the stickied forum post that deal with that subject.
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You can find my NDS homebrew projects here...
#124957 - simonjhall - Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:58 am
<sarcasm>
Whatchu talkin' bout?! I though all DS stuff was done with RAD tools! I haven't written a line of code whilst programming for the DS!
</sarky>
But yeah, really there's nothing that comes to mind regarding drag-and-drop game creation. I've found DS development to be pretty hit and miss! It's all about programming with baby steps - change something slightly, build it, run it, see what happens. Repeat thousands of times and you've got a game!
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#124969 - silent_code - Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:56 pm
*lmao* that was a good one!
but seriously:
1) you should better get to the point with what you mean to write, "gui tools" are too general. though, from what i read, i understand you mean flash-like rad tools, not programming environments or "extended" text editors.
2) | Quote: |
| How do guys can make homebrew games/app on the DS and place graphics exactly where they want? by GUI-based I meant so I could simply drag n drop 2d sprites/backgrounds onto the screen etc... w/o any guess work. |
ouch! *-500HP* that hurts!
as simonjhall pointed out, it's exactly that what makes you a developper, rather than a designer ("hey, let's paint a game!" [copyright by me ;^p]).
programming also means trial-and-error. a better programmer will find a better and faster solution to any given problem than a more average one, but he/she still needs to try things out (even if the first try is a hit - and even that doesn't have to be the best and final solution!).
placing sprites in a scene is about the last thing a programmer needs to worry (and even think) about - that would be the work of a level designer anyway (using some sort of level editor - could also be just a text editor in the worst case). but in general one has a pretty good guess of where to place stuff in the first place. simply use the *power of imagination!* *+9999 HP (melody playing)*. i'm being childish, i know. ;^p
finally, if you ultimately want to stay in flash land, don't bother with the nds, but if you want to get dirty and into the console, learn c/c++, game programming (rather than configuring) and get your hands on the devkit. that even comes with an editor! (though i don't use it.)
happy coding!
#124982 - Stuk - Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:35 pm
| khan wrote: |
| ...have achieved really high marks at University in several programming based modules |
Just out of interest, what are you studying at Uni?
With regards to your actual question, I can't really elaborate any more on what other people have said.
| khan wrote: |
| ...and place graphics exactly where they want? |
It's all done in the code, loading the graphics into memory and then placing them requires twiddling actual bits on the hardware:
| Code: |
spriteEntry->attribute[0] |= (y & 0x00FF);
spriteEntry->attribute[1] |= (x & 0x01FF); |
Code from sprites.cpp from http://www.patatersoft.info/manual.html
#124985 - tepples - Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:52 pm
| OOPMan wrote: |
| I afraid that if you are under the general impression that coding (In any field, not just games and homebrew dev) is 90% drag-n-drop and 10% coding then you are in for a shock. |
Clickteam and Agetec products give people that impression. To set up collision detection in Clickteam's The Games Factory, all the user does is click an object, click another object, choose "Objects begin to overlap", and then choose one or more actions to take from menus.
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#125089 - OOPMan - Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:05 am
I thought those sorry little games-creators programs died a screaming death years ago?
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You can find my NDS homebrew projects here...
#125093 - simonjhall - Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:10 am
LOL!
If you were a program, how would you see yourself in a "screaming death"? "NOOO! Don't delete me!"
Yeah.
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#125103 - silent_code - Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:06 pm
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! *laughs with tears in the eyes*
"suicidal programs". *finds himself sort of funny atm*
but seen from a diferent pov these programs are sure good level editors with lots of functionality under the hood. like most of them... ok, the two i've ever seen. ;^p
ps: i don't mean to be mean. *what a joke!*
#125142 - jester - Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:12 pm
XtenDS Maybe???
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#125243 - khan - Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:01 am
I know that whether it is a game/app 90% of it is coding whilst the rest of goes to actual designing the interface.
I did not mean to say that I want the program to auto-program for ME, of course not!
I was thinking towards having GUI-based tool similar to Flash 8 in that we place graphics and alot of programming goes behind every button or actions of the game/app.
Very basic guide to understanding the DS functions will be appreciated.
#125244 - OOPMan - Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:06 am
Dude, games programming DOES NOT happen like that.
Not real games programming.
Real games require a lot of heavy coding and extreme tweaking to run well because they tend to milk the hardware for all it's worth.
With regards to a very basic guide, please look at the top of this section of the forum and note the Tutorial thread. It's stickied.
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"My boot, your face..." - Attributed to OOPMan, Emperor of Eroticon VI
You can find my NDS homebrew projects here...
#125284 - tepples - Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:38 pm
| OOPMan wrote: |
Dude, games programming DOES NOT happen like that.
Not real games programming.
Real games require a lot of heavy coding and extreme tweaking to run well because they tend to milk the hardware for all it's worth. |
Does Tetris DS need a lot of extreme tweaking? What about the other casual games? Some people just want to be able to throw something together in the style of a Clickteam product.
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-- Where is he?
-- Who?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#125433 - OOPMan - Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:55 am
Gah, okay, you have a point tepples.
I made a large generalisation there, sorry.
Nevertheless, I somehow doubt Tetris DS was thrown together using a click-team product.
I'm not saying constrained systems are always bad. You need only look at the large variety of Warcraft 3 mod maps out there to realise that a constrained system can be very flexible.
Nevertheless, they do have their limitations. In Warcraft 3, actually adding in a brand new skills that are not variants on old ones isn't really possible without hacking the EXE, last time I checked anyway...
Well, anyway. I wrote some crap :-)
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"My boot, your face..." - Attributed to OOPMan, Emperor of Eroticon VI
You can find my NDS homebrew projects here...
#125556 - marovada - Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:05 pm
#125732 - silent_code - Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:13 pm
it is *so* NOT. come on, a gui program template generator (aka wizard)... ? christ!
#125813 - marovada - Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:06 am
Think possibilities. Rome wasn't built in a day.
#125846 - silent_code - Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:32 pm
| marovada wrote: |
| Think possibilities. Rome wasn't built in a day. |
??? *what* do you mean ??? (i know what the words you wrote mean, but what you intend by writing them is beyond me.)
whatever.
Last edited by silent_code on Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
#125850 - Lick - Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:52 pm
He means that more functionality can be added later on, I think.
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#125891 - marovada - Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:43 am
Exactly what Lick said.
#125924 - LiraNuna - Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:41 am
Code from sprites.cpp from http://www.patatersoft.info/manual.html
Actually Patater used the code presented in ToD and never credited me. (not thtat I blame you)
Take a look yourself, even the filename is the same
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