gbadev.org forum archive

In this post there is a state-of-the-art but it's old:

http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?p=37450#37450

Could some kind, knowledgeable soul update that thread with the current state-of-the-art?

I just got a DS Lite and want to try some programming on it. But there's so much data and some of it's old and it's hard to tell what is correct, what's not, etc.

I would like to know first-hand what hardware do most people use and why. DS Lite hardware and wifi hardware. What are the risks in using some of the custom hardware for the DS Lite? Do the Ralinktech USB wifi dongles work for wmb? Is it easier to develop in windows vs. linux?

Has anyone ever had a homebrew game developed into a retail game?

WhiteCLoud wrote:

I just got a DS Lite and want to try some programming on it. But there's so much data and some of it's old and it's hard to tell what is correct, what's not, etc.

I would like to know first-hand what hardware do most people use and why.

A SLOT-1 card is probably easiest to use. You'll also need a SLOT-2 card if you want to run programs designed for a Game Boy Advance system, or if you want to run programs that need extra RAM (such as Quake II).

Quote:

What are the risks in using some of the custom hardware for the DS Lite?

Hardly any, now that SLOT-1 cards are widely available and now that popular antivirus software for Windows detects the handful of destructive programs that got into the wild.

Quote:

Do the Ralinktech USB wifi dongles work for wmb?

WMB is the old way. DSFTP is the new way.

Quote:

Has anyone ever had a homebrew game developed into a retail game?

Not that I can think of, at least on the DS in North America. For one thing, homebrew games run on the equivalent of a different operating system.
_________________
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-- Who?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.

Thanks tepples.

Okay I will get a slot-1 and slot-2 card. Which ones do people know are good? I suspect that there's a clear advantage using one over another and I presume that people here know which ones. Do you all have favorites and why?

Some destructive programs in the wild that targeted DS homebrew apps?
Can you point me to any info on that?

Thanks for DSFTP I will check that out. In all the reading I've done I never heard of that one. (exactly why I need a state-of-the-art update (^: )

I guess one thing I'm not squared away completely on is what I can do with this DS . Let me explain with an example. I want to write an app that anyone with a DS can download via wifi, interact with it and send the data back to the download server. Is this even possible to do? Or does this kind of devel/app require an official Nintendo devkit? In the reading I've done I understand the download server does a key exchange (1024-bit key I think) with the peer and that key can only be generated by an authentic DS. So does this prevent me from writing an app that will talk to a real DS? If so I may be stopped in my pursuit of developing an app before I've even started.

So my next question might be has anyone requested a devkit form Nintendo? What's the story there? Do they manage that closely and keep the barrier to entry high? i.e. they require financial statements, etc.

WhiteCLoud wrote:

Okay I will get a slot-1 and slot-2 card. Which ones do people know are good?

I have an R4 (SLOT-1) and an EZFlash V 3-in-1 (SLOT-2). But it may be difficult to find an R4 nowadays after Nintendo raided a lot of resellers.

Quote:

I suspect that there's a clear advantage using one over another and I presume that people here know which ones.

Datel's Games n' Music is the slowest and probably the most problematic of all the popular SLOT-1 cards, but it has one big advantage: unlike other DS homebrew products, it's available in traditional retail stores in North America.

Quote:

Some destructive programs in the wild that targeted DS homebrew apps?
Can you point me to any info on that?

There was r0mloader, written to get revenge on DS ROM pirates. This program would try to erase most of the DS firmware, the firmware of a few SLOT-2 cards, and the inserted CF card. Then there was taihen, which did the same thing while displaying pornographic drawings. But I'm pretty sure you won't encounter them unless you go looking for them.

Quote:

I guess one thing I'm not squared away completely on is what I can do with this DS . Let me explain with an example. I want to write an app that anyone with a DS can download via wifi

Do you mean "DS Download Play", or do you mean something that users who already have homebrew equipment can download? In order to use DS Download Play with a stock DS, you need to have an official devkit. But if you are targeting users who already have the equipment to run homebrew, such as Games n' Music, there are a few homebrew web browsers for the DS that can download .nds files from the Internet and copy them to the SD card.

Quote:

So my next question might be has anyone requested a devkit form Nintendo? What's the story there? Do they manage that closely and keep the barrier to entry high? i.e. they require financial statements, etc.

From what I've read on Nintendo's site (warioworld.com) as well as that of Microsoft (microsoftcasualgames.com), a studio that is new to the console world should have most or all of the following before it will get a devkit:

information about your company, including a business plan;
office space detached from any residence;
a proposal for a title that the console maker accepts, along with a marketing plan for this title; and
one or more previous successful titles developed by your company for Windows, Mac OS X, or Windows Mobile, a playable prototype of the proposed title on one of these platforms, or both.

But if your audience includes those who can already run homebrew on a DS, you do not need an official devkit.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.

tepples wrote:

I have an R4 (SLOT-1) and an EZFlash V 3-in-1 (SLOT-2). But it may be difficult to find an R4 nowadays after Nintendo raided a lot of resellers.

I've seen R4DS for sale is that the same thing?

Quote:

Datel's Games n' Music is the slowest and probably the most problematic of all the popular SLOT-1 cards, but it has one big advantage: unlike other DS homebrew products, it's available in traditional retail stores in North America.

Sounds tempting, but may be not worth the trouble. How problematic are they?

Quote:

There was r0mloader, written to get revenge on DS ROM pirates. This program would try to erase most of the DS firmware, the firmware of a few SLOT-2 cards, and the inserted CF card. Then there was taihen, which did the same thing while displaying pornographic drawings. But I'm pretty sure you won't encounter them unless you go looking for them.

Interesting, contract virues paid for by Nintendo? Not that anyone could prove it....

Quote:

Do you mean "DS Download Play", or do you mean something that users who already have homebrew equipment can download? In order to use DS Download Play with a stock DS, you need to have an official devkit. But if you are targeting users who already have the equipment to run homebrew, such as Games n' Music, there are a few homebrew web browsers for the DS that can download .nds files from the Internet and copy them to the SD card.

Yes, I meant DS download play, the users I would target would be run-of-the-mill DS users.

Quote:

From what I've read on Nintendo's site (warioworld.com) as well as that of Microsoft (microsoftcasualgames.com), a studio that is new to the console world should have most or all of the following before it will get a devkit:

information about your company, including a business plan;
office space detached from any residence;
a proposal for a title that the console maker accepts, along with a marketing plan for this title; and
one or more previous successful titles developed by your company for Windows, Mac OS X, or Windows Mobile, a playable prototype of the proposed title on one of these platforms, or both.

But if your audience includes those who can already run homebrew on a DS, you do not need an official devkit.

This is good to know, so maybe I develop it on homebrew then pitch the idea to a Nintendo Authorized
game house. Not that it would be free of risk either. Would have to get them to sign an NDA and would
have to negotiate something.

Of course I can't say my idea will even take off but the potential if it does gain in popularity
is big. Whenever there's big $$ the big players will gladly squash the little player.

I realize a lot of this information is old hat for many here but I suspect there are at least
a few like me that are just getting into this and find this helpful also, thanks.

WhiteCLoud wrote:

tepples wrote:

I have an R4 (SLOT-1)

I've seen R4DS for sale is that the same thing?

Yes. The M3 DS Simply is also 99% the same.

Quote:

so maybe I develop it on homebrew then pitch the idea to a Nintendo Authorized game house.

You might want to consider developing a version in parallel for Windows or Windows Mobile so that it isn't as closely tied to libnds, because (official) libnitro is different from libnds.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.

WhiteCLoud wrote:

Interesting, contract virues paid for by Nintendo? Not that anyone could prove it....

Darkfader made the "r0mloader" and "taihen" trojans on his own, without any involvement from Nintendo.
There's a lot of complex history involving Darkfader.
He was involved in initially hacking the GBA Movie Player which eventually led to Chishm working on FAT libraries.
Darkfader is also known being involved in the NDS w***z scene.
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gbadev.org forum archive

DS development > update to the state-of-the-art

#151270 - WhiteCLoud - Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:40 am

#151285 - tepples - Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:24 pm

#151297 - WhiteCLoud - Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:18 pm

#151302 - tepples - Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:23 pm

#151307 - WhiteCLoud - Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:55 am

#151331 - tepples - Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:24 pm

#151341 - Dwedit - Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:52 pm