#155754 - (sniper) 109 - Sat May 03, 2008 10:31 pm
i think it would be pretty cool to have that way you can use roms instead of he cartridge's
#155758 - silent_code - Sat May 03, 2008 10:59 pm
yes, if you are a pirate. ...
...
NOT!
i mean, letting the hardware emulate itself is really dumb, isn't it?
EDIT: this post is only about the use of the word "emulator". i think something like a "software passme" or remapper or whatever could be done. and yes, i think gba devs could benefit from it, although i still see very little use and MUCH, *VERY* much abuse! some kind of "wifi a gba rom to ram and then play it from there" would be much more (ab)usable, i think. yeah, noone has done that, yet, i know. just suggesting how to use more appropriate wording. ;^p
@ nsm333: <lol> ARRR! :^D
Last edited by silent_code on Sun May 04, 2008 12:24 am; edited 4 times in total
#155764 - nsm333 - Sat May 03, 2008 11:56 pm
lol. darn pirates. with thier eyepatches and stuff... but, seriously, i wanted one too. only because of gba homebrew, though. i do not pirate games! but, yah. this was a pirate topic.
#155765 - tepples - Sun May 04, 2008 12:04 am
Given the Neo-Geo emulator that got posted, and the fact that the DS-mode video hardware is so much like the GBA's, I would bet that a GBA emulator that can only handle multiboots might be possible. But I'm not the one to make it, sadly :-(
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#155766 - HyperHacker - Sun May 04, 2008 12:47 am
I'm sure it can be done, but I don't think anyone is interested. Those who want to play GBA homebrew bought GBA flash carts or RAM carts.
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#155767 - tepples - Sun May 04, 2008 12:53 am
| HyperHacker wrote: |
| Those who want to play GBA homebrew bought GBA flash carts or RAM carts. |
That's what people said about GBC homebrew until Goomba Color came out.
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#155795 - kusma - Sun May 04, 2008 11:52 am
| silent_code wrote: |
| some kind of "wifi a gba rom to ram and then play it from there" would be much more (ab)usable, i think. yeah, noone has done that, yet, i know. |
Spooky and I wrote a tool that wifi-transfers a ROM to RAM, writes it to a GBA-flashcart (a specific brand - Shitfaced Clowns Inc), and boots to GBA mode. Works like a charm.
#155821 - thoduv - Sun May 04, 2008 6:52 pm
I had begun to code such a thing with a "virtualisation" approach, using exception handler and CP15 to handle registers/rom read/writes, but I quickly gave up, given the uselessness (excluding for pirates) of the thing.
Useless source code and explanations: http://thoduv.drunkencoders.com/article27:vidage-de-poubelle-2-tgba.html (in french, sorry).
#155825 - silent_code - Sun May 04, 2008 7:12 pm
| kusma wrote: |
| Spooky and I wrote a tool that wifi-transfers a ROM to RAM, writes it to a GBA-flashcart (a specific brand - Shitfaced Clowns Inc), and boots to GBA mode. Works like a charm. |
i am aware of that and yeah, it's cool! :^D
what i was intending is: have you tried to boot it directly from ram after sending, without the need of writing the rom to flash?
#155828 - kusma - Sun May 04, 2008 7:23 pm
| silent_code wrote: |
| what i was intending is: have you tried to boot it directly from ram after sending, without the need of writing the rom to flash? |
No, I haven't tried making a multiboot-version, if that's what you're asking. Perhaps those RAM-expansion carts can let you wifi-boot bigger ROMs without going to disk.
#155833 - silent_code - Sun May 04, 2008 7:49 pm
just to make sure you didn't misunderstand me (i'm prone to irritation):
i thought of a nds program that would wifi a rom to ram. 4 mb should be fine for gba roms. (someone has a thread going on the topic. that person is trying to develop such a program, for nds roms.)
then the rom is executed from ram, just as if it was on a flash cart, no multiboot code requitred.
this was just a thought of something that would benefit devs more than haxorz. it's no request, at all. ;^D
sorry, if i'm being offtopic.
Last edited by silent_code on Sun May 04, 2008 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
#155838 - tepples - Sun May 04, 2008 7:54 pm
| kusma wrote: |
| silent_code wrote: | | what i was intending is: have you tried to boot it directly from ram after sending, without the need of writing the rom to flash? |
No, I haven't tried making a multiboot-version, if that's what you're asking. Perhaps those RAM-expansion carts can let you wifi-boot bigger ROMs without going to disk. |
I think that's what s_c is talking about: use Lick's RAM API to copy a ROM from DS RAM to the RAM of a SuperCard or M3, possibly in small chunks for ROMs between 3 and 32 MiB in size, and then jump to it.
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#155840 - silent_code - Sun May 04, 2008 8:01 pm
@ tepples: nope, good try though.
my point was more like: have nothing in the nds, start wifi transfer, transfer a rom to main system ram, remap "stuff" (some sort of nds host program / loader is needed here, that is transfered prior to the rom, with the rom attached to it or whatever) in the rom (or however one wants to do it) to be runable directly from main ram, "soft reset" or start the system into gba mode, but preserve system ram and needed settings (remapping).
gba games are run from rom anyway, so if the nds could be "forced" to pretend its 4 mb ram are a 4 mb rom, there would be no need for extra hw.
i have no idea if this is doable, i don't even think i would use it (no$ with eventual hw testing is enough for me!) i just know there are very talented people out there and people who would appreciate such software.
:^D
#155841 - Maxxie - Sun May 04, 2008 8:08 pm
The NDS' ram is completely cleared or inaccessible when booting into gba mode.
#155849 - Dwedit - Sun May 04, 2008 9:15 pm
| Maxxie wrote: |
| The NDS' ram is completely cleared or inaccessible when booting into gba mode. |
Except of course for the border. (which is not readable by the GBA, only displayed)
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#155854 - Maxxie - Sun May 04, 2008 10:02 pm
I was aware of that, hence the inaccessible :p
#155999 - HyperHacker - Tue May 06, 2008 5:48 am
Has anyone tried just getting GSF files to play? That might be a bit easier and less "useless".
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#156128 - tepples - Wed May 07, 2008 2:02 am
Most popular SLOT-1 flash cards are big enough that they can hold a game's entire soundtrack transcoded from GSF to Vorbis. Even on a smaller card, your favorite tracks might be smaller than the gsflib.
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#156153 - (sniper) 109 - Wed May 07, 2008 4:09 am
im not a pirate im talking about the stuff within gba dev like that doom2 engine and supersmash and half life i would never pirate any game
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#156154 - (sniper) 109 - Wed May 07, 2008 4:13 am
also SNEmulDS hmmmm.....so gba is pirating and snes isnt.And yet there still is snes emulator ;)
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#156158 - spinal_cord - Wed May 07, 2008 6:42 am
You can see from many other forums, probably a couple of threads here too, that although it is theoretically possible to do a GBA emulator that loads .gba files from slot-1, nobody want to code it because there is absolutely no point. If you have a machine with something built into it, emulating is becomes a completely useless idea, just use the hardware that's there. There are plenty of GBA flash carts about, some slot-1 card now come with slot-2 expansion carts specifically for copying files from slot-1 to slot-2 for booting in GBA mode.
Tell me which is more logical, but a slot-2 cart (quite cheap these days) or spend hundreds of hours working on some software that will struggle at best to run.
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#156173 - silent_code - Wed May 07, 2008 12:38 pm
| (sniper) 109 wrote: |
| also SNEmulDS hmmmm.....so gba is pirating and snes isnt.And yet there still is snes emulator ;) |
that's right. because, last time i checked, the nds didn't have a snes build in, but sure had gba hw inside. emulating the gba wouldn't be more or less illegal than emulation the snes, but what's the point, if you *own* your games and can simply put the cartridges into the system and play? pirating.
the one and only exception from this are hb devs, but with super fast and sufficiently accurete emulators, that isn't a big issue any more.
@ spinal_cord: totally right. sorry for repeating your post. X^D
#156175 - tepples - Wed May 07, 2008 12:42 pm
The DS already eliminated the GBA's GBC compatibility, and the Wii already eliminated the GameCube's GBA compatibility. When the next DS eliminates GBA compatibility, how will anybody run GBA homebrew? It might fall into obscurity as GBC homebrew already had.
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#156180 - silent_code - Wed May 07, 2008 1:12 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| The DS already eliminated the GBA's GBC compatibility |
i can still play my old gb games on my (wide, unlit) gba. you sure mean the micro, don't you?
well, as for the rest, we'll have to see what architecture the next system will have. well, it's the same with every generation of game consoles. :^C
the new "light" ps3 (40gb? some stuff is missing) model dropped ps2 emulation! that made me a sad panda.
#156227 - tepples - Wed May 07, 2008 10:14 pm
| silent_code wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | The DS already eliminated the GBA's GBC compatibility |
i can still play my old gb games on my (wide, unlit) gba. you sure mean the micro, don't you? |
That, but more importantly the DS. Nintendo will eventually stop making the GBA SP, just as it has stopped making the original GBA, GameCube, and Game Boy Player.
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#156249 - nsm333 - Thu May 08, 2008 1:12 am
what??? they stoped making the game cube? really? but, you're right. at some point, we will have to emulate gba games. why not start now? maybe put some sort of "lock" against real games, and only do homebrew.
#156257 - silent_code - Thu May 08, 2008 2:32 am
| nsm333 wrote: |
| maybe put some sort of "lock" against real games, and only do homebrew. |
not practical. and there are quite some gba emulators out there, have been fpr years. like no$gba maybe? or visual boy advanced? ;^D
again, to me, it makes no sense to emulate the gba on the nds (beause the nds is sort of a gba advance ;^D ) and as we don't know the secs of a possible future hw, starting to work on an emu for that hypothetical device makes no sense either.
after all, they will NOT drop gba support in the nds. the hw of both systems is too close to the gba, it wouldn't benefit anyone to drop it. it's like taking out the game cube (R.I.P., my true love!) out of the wii: there would be only duct tape left! makes no sense!
could anyone convince me that i'm wrong? i fail to see the need for such software.
@ nsm333 - ps: homebrew games, that are actually runable software, are real as well. you might use "commercial" or "pirated" games instead of "real" games. ;^) the opposite to that are "imaginary" games. like halo on the nds. ;^)
Last edited by silent_code on Thu May 08, 2008 2:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
#156268 - spinal_cord - Thu May 08, 2008 6:48 am
Why start now? if indeed the DS2 removes GBA support, do it then, the next DS will undoubtedly be more powerful and able to do the task of emulating the GBA much better than the current hardware. There is absolutly no reason to try and emulate the GBA on the DS.
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#156277 - M3d10n - Thu May 08, 2008 1:24 pm
Just buy a slot-2 solution. As a bonus you get extra RAM for the homebrew that can use it.
#156325 - tepples - Thu May 08, 2008 10:02 pm
| silent_code wrote: |
| after all, they will NOT drop gba support in the nds. |
after all, they DID drop gbc support in the micro.
| silent_code wrote: |
| it's like taking out the game cube (R.I.P., my true love!) out of the wii: there would be only duct tape left! makes no sense! |
You'd end up with a USB host controller, a 512 MB flash drive, an SD card reader, a Wi-Fi dongle, and a Bluetooth adapter. Seriously. That's all that makes a Wii a Wii.
| silent_code wrote: |
| @ nsm333 - ps: homebrew games, that are actually runable software, are real as well. you might use "commercial" or "pirated" games instead of "real" games. ;^) the opposite to that are "imaginary" games. like halo on the nds. ;^) |
You mean like Halo 2 on the GBA? (Google it)
| spinal_cord wrote: |
| if indeed the DS2 removes GBA support, do it then, the next DS will undoubtedly be more powerful and able to do the task of emulating the GBA much better than the current hardware. |
Unless the DS2 has much better security against hobbyists than the DS has.
Two users named s_c? Ow.
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#156351 - silent_code - Thu May 08, 2008 11:08 pm
i'm not arguing here. ;^) i'm just interested and would like to know more (i probably should search wikipedia then) ... anyway:
tepples, i understand and i really hope what you wrote will not come true.
were there any architecture changes made in the micro?
they *did* have gbc guts in the gba(sp) (booted via a switch triggered with by the cartridge's shape), that were taken out of the micro. that hw was, afaik, not vital to gba mode. that's not true with the (slightly altered) gba hw in the nds. am i wrong?
again, i'm not argueing here, just curious! ;^D
#156371 - nsm333 - Fri May 09, 2008 12:24 am
i have no money. no way i can buy another card. anyway, i have a slot-2 card, just a crappy one.
#156386 - elwing - Fri May 09, 2008 7:28 am
| silent_code wrote: |
tepples, i understand and i really hope what you wrote will not come true.
were there any architecture changes made in the micro? |
not sure, but from what I remember it can only run gba games... and since it came out after the nds it prolly mean that the GBA internal was directly coming from the nds one... that's something to verify trough... I am not sure that the old Z80 is still present...
#156395 - silent_code - Fri May 09, 2008 12:05 pm
nope, it's gba sp hw.
| wikipedia wrote: |
| Backward compatibility for Game Boy and Game Boy Color games is provided by an 8.4 MHz Z80 co-processor |
which was not included in the micro, possibly to reduce manufacturing costs.
#156421 - kusma - Fri May 09, 2008 3:53 pm
| nsm333 wrote: |
| i have no money. no way i can buy another card. anyway, i have a slot-2 card, just a crappy one. |
I have no spaceship, but you don't see me complaining about not getting to go to the moon ;)
Seriously, don't expect people to invest a lot of time to help you save a little bit of money. Unfortunately in this world, most things cost money. And it's not going to change real soon, so you have to prepare yourself to make sacrifices.
Besides, I'm not really sure if a GBA emulator is even possible to do properly without requiring a SLOT-2 RAM expansion (which again is pointless, since then you have a working GBA already), due to the huge (32MB) ROM-space on the GBA. Sure, you could cap it to only runn ROMs smaller than 4MB (minus the size of the emulator?), but that would prevent you from running a lot of software, including at least everything I've ever made for the GBA. ;)
So it looks to me like you'd only get around to make a half-assed emulator, which doesn't make much sense to me. As tepples pointed out, Nintendo might remove the GBA-support in the next generation of handheld consoles. But hopefully those handhelds will be powerfull enough to emulate it properly.
#156427 - knight0fdragon - Fri May 09, 2008 5:48 pm
| kusma wrote: |
| nsm333 wrote: | | i have no money. no way i can buy another card. anyway, i have a slot-2 card, just a crappy one. |
I have no spaceship, but you don't see me complaining about not getting to go to the moon ;)
Seriously, don't expect people to invest a lot of time to help you save a little bit of money. Unfortunately in this world, most things cost money. And it's not going to change real soon, so you have to prepare yourself to make sacrifices.
Besides, I'm not really sure if a GBA emulator is even possible to do properly without requiring a SLOT-2 RAM expansion (which again is pointless, since then you have a working GBA already), due to the huge (32MB) ROM-space on the GBA. Sure, you could cap it to only runn ROMs smaller than 4MB (minus the size of the emulator?), but that would prevent you from running a lot of software, including at least everything I've ever made for the GBA. ;)
So it looks to me like you'd only get around to make a half-assed emulator, which doesn't make much sense to me. As tepples pointed out, Nintendo might remove the GBA-support in the next generation of handheld consoles. But hopefully those handhelds will be powerfull enough to emulate it properly. |
you could always do a page swapping system into the slot 1 ROM since the gba ROM is not being accessed all the time.
as for the GBA drop in the next system....nintendo uses that slot for ds games also,so unless they want to drop compatibility for that stuff as well, I dont see the GBA being totally phased out till the DS phases out, they may just make a GBA emu on the DS the next time around
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#156438 - nsm333 - Fri May 09, 2008 8:17 pm
ok, ok. just was giving the idea some thought. i'm sorry i can't buy you a spaceship, but you can make a giant cannon. and, what the hell are you talking about? the gba does not have 32mb of space.
edit: do you mean 32 mb for size of the rom? that makes more sense. sorry to bring piracy in, but they run ds games more that 4 mb just fine. i think.
#156442 - Tockit - Fri May 09, 2008 9:24 pm
| nsm333 wrote: |
ok, ok. just was giving the idea some thought. i'm sorry i can't buy you a spaceship, but you can make a giant cannon. and, what the hell are you talking about? the gba does not have 32mb of space.
edit: do you mean 32 mb for size of the rom? that makes more sense. sorry to bring piracy in, but they run ds games more that 4 mb just fine. i think. |
GBA games require a faster streaming speed than DS games, hence why GBA ROM data is copied to RAM first. DS games run at a much slower stream, and therefore, can run directly from sd cards, which can stream that data fast enough for the DS to keep up. (even though I've heard some brands or speeds of SD cards can NOT keep up with that speed requirement.)
that's also why some slot-2 cards sux0rz. (RAM quality issues.) m3 perfect, for example, claims they use static RAM, which seems a bit un-fathomable to me. 32 MB of static ram costs alot more than 70 bucks. ALOT. more.
I'm no programmer, so I can't speak for how HB runs from said scenarios.
every time this godforsaken topic comes up, it seemingly ALWAYS gets 3 pages of argument oriented posts. it never ceases to amaze me. never.
that, and N64 emus. EGADS, make it stop!!
:) I'm done.
#156450 - tepples - Fri May 09, 2008 10:52 pm
| knight0fdragon wrote: |
| you could always do a page swapping system into the slot 1 ROM since the gba ROM is not being accessed all the time. |
But in some games, enough of it is being accessed at once that paging isn't going to help much. But if you can run multiboots, you can run a lot.
| Quote: |
| as for the GBA drop in the next system....nintendo uses that slot for ds games also |
Other than DS-GBA link (like in Pokemon) and for the rumble and RAM paks (which would probably be integrated into the next handheld), what does Nintendo use SLOT-2 for in DS mode?
| nsm333 wrote: |
| edit: do you mean 32 mb for size of the rom? that makes more sense. sorry to bring piracy in, but they run ds games more that 4 mb just fine. i think. |
DS Game Cards are block devices, returning 512-byte pieces of information just like CF and SD cards. GBA Game Paks, on the other hand, are word-addressed, meaning that the memory controller can seek to any 16-bit unit in the same amount of time.
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#156456 - HyperHacker - Sat May 10, 2008 2:06 am
| Tockit wrote: |
| m3 perfect, for example, claims they use static RAM, which seems a bit un-fathomable to me. 32 MB of static ram costs alot more than 70 bucks. ALOT. more. |
I've heard it called pseudo-SRAM, as in DRAM that acts like SRAM.
| tepples wrote: |
| Other than DS-GBA link (like in Pokemon) and for the rumble and RAM paks (which would probably be integrated into the next handheld), what does Nintendo use SLOT-2 for in DS mode? |
A pong paddle controller and a camera come to mind. In the future, Guitar Hero DS.
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#156461 - knight0fdragon - Sat May 10, 2008 3:33 am
doesnt diagasso band bros use the GBA cart to expand its songs, also the DS TV tuner out in japan, plus who knows what else they will think of
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#156470 - silent_code - Sat May 10, 2008 9:34 am
one thing is for sure: nintendo require the customers to change their accessory with each new console.
i guess they might drop the gba slot with the next "real" new handheld (gamecube ds portable? ;^D ), but not for the nds.
hopefully, i repeated myself the last time in this thread. ;^)
#156506 - tepples - Sat May 10, 2008 9:44 pm
| knight0fdragon wrote: |
| doesnt diagasso band bros use the GBA cart to expand its songs, also the DS TV tuner out in japan |
Those would probably be collateral damage, like GBA multiplayer on the DS, or like GBA compatibility at all on the Wii.
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#156610 - dantheman - Sun May 11, 2008 10:16 pm
| HyperHacker wrote: |
| Has anyone tried just getting GSF files to play? That might be a bit easier and less "useless". |
According to Wikipedia, GSF files are basically just GBA files with everything but the sound data removed, thus you'd need a GBA emulator to make even GSF files run at all.
The GSFOPT program can turn *.gsf files into *.gba executable files. However, each converted file takes up the same amount of space as the original GBA game. Thus, an idea Tepples brought up long ago was to use the GSFOPT sourcecode to create a program that converts the GSF file into a GBA rom, loads it into slot-2 RAM, and then boots it in GBA mode.
#156611 - tepples - Sun May 11, 2008 10:19 pm
| dantheman wrote: |
| According to Wikipedia, GSF files are basically just GBA files with everything but the sound data removed, thus you'd need a GBA emulator to make even GSF files run at all. |
But if you're only emulating a music engine, you could probably get away with emulating the CPU at 20 percent of native clock speed and only a tiny subset of the video chip. DSOrganize and MoonShell both have an NSF player; notice how much simpler they are than nesDS.
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#156614 - dantheman - Sun May 11, 2008 10:25 pm
I guess I forgot about that. In that case, you're right in that a GSF player would probably be much simpler than a GBA emulator.