gbadev.org forum archive

I noticed that someone has already registered dsdev.org, hopefully someone from gbadev.org. What do you think the chances of us being able to develop for this type of system like the way we are now?

I'm just throwing the idea out because I would really like to play around with this "new canvas" for game developers.

I'm sure people will try to homebrew it, but I'm not sure how far it will get...

wifi, touchscreen, mic input, and two high res screens makes this one hell of a PDA for a incredible price.
Of course it will become a homebrew platform.

My fear is that the GBA emulation patent will set a precedent for other Nintendo hardware, making it difficult to legally create homebrew software (can't exactly do it easily without an emulator).

The name for the DS is soon to change anyway. I hope some gbadev.org member quickly obtains the domain the moment the new name is released.
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Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(

Software emulation of a system in general can not be patented. It is a very old practice.

But specific techniques of emulation can be patented, and in the patent that everybody talks about, Nintendo claims to have invented switching speed hacks on and off based on recognizing a specific title by analyzing the ROM's data.
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tepples wrote:

But specific techniques of emulation can be patented, and in the patent that everybody talks about, Nintendo claims to have invented switching speed hacks on and off based on recognizing a specific title by analyzing the ROM's data.

Yes, but such hacks are of no use whatsoever for developers. Only pirates.

Of course there will be homebrew games, im already drooling over the possibilities.

And yeah, i tried to get dsdev.org too but was too late :(
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I wonder if someone bought it out to sell it to someone for a high price or if they intend to use it. It would be great if it became a website like gbadev.org.

I believe that we will eventually have compilers and an emulator to test your game, possibly a cart of some sort. Would be great for us, bad for Nintendo though. I know the emulator won't be too much of a problem since you can't really play the game without the touch screen, mic etc.

We'll now to think of a million new ways to play a video game.

Of course while all systems eventually get reverse engineered this one may take some time. I'm going to be very interested in seing the card format, see if its something people can make for piracy/dev (whatever, i dont care and dont pretend you dont pirate :P) or whether Nintendo has used a media that has strong patents on it this time.

Also can you imagine multiboot over wireless :P
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I can't remember which site said this, but since the DS has WiFi, and that perhaps the DS can access the internet through this connection, I'm thinking we won't really have to have a flash card to develop on the real hardware. We would just need a program that uses WiFi to transfer between the DS an your computer.

Wouldn't that be something!?
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DS - It's all about DiscoStew

I read that it got 4MBytes of RAM, so that should be enough for most homebrewed stuff, it would be really nice if one could multiboot from a PC with WLAN...
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I probably suck, my not is a programmer.

MumblyJoe wrote:

Of course while all systems eventually get reverse engineered this one may take some time.

It's been nearly 20 years, and nobody has publicly reverse-engineered the 10NES program in the front-loading NES's lockout chip.

DiscoStew wrote:

since the DS has WiFi, and that perhaps the DS can access the internet through this connection

That doesn't help if all the communication is encrypted heavily with, say, hardware-accelerated AES.
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The emulation patent Nintendo has though is very specific. They didn't patent emulation. They patented GBA emulation with speed tricks on portable systems. It doesn't cover PC systems. Prior art would disqualify their patent if they tried to include PC emulation.

Its amazing to see how many news sites and discussion groups say that Nintendo patented GBA emulation in general.

I have actually been thinking about something...

The DS has a GBA slot seperate to the DS card slot, (I assume for pokemon games or something to transfer data from old games any DS software can access the GBA slot) so what about a piece of software that connects to your wireless network, and lets you write to your flash card through the DS, then soft-reboots or whatever...

Maybe Borden will come up with something...
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MumblyJoe wrote:

I have actually been thinking about something...

The DS has a GBA slot seperate to the DS card slot, (I assume for pokemon games or something to transfer data from old games any DS software can access the GBA slot) so what about a piece of software that connects to your wireless network, and lets you write to your flash card through the DS, then soft-reboots or whatever...

Maybe Borden will come up with something...

And how would you put that piece of software on the DS in the first place??

mmm yep, and what difference does it make if we flash the GBA card through the DS?
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FluBBa wrote:

mmm yep, and what difference does it make if we flash the GBA card through the DS?

because then we could humble the DS by using it as a flash linker tool for our beloved gba ;)

Col

I can stand alone with my no vote - I can take the pressure. Seems I'm the only pessimist here :)

Miked0801 wrote:

I can stand alone with my no vote - I can take the pressure. Seems I'm the only pessimist here :)

You're not alone anymore. It's always best to trust the guy who has the contacts.
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Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(

Miked0801 wrote:

I can stand alone with my no vote - I can take the pressure. Seems I'm the only pessimist here :)

Well, to be fair, the question is just "Will there be DS homebrew dev?"
Almost every system has some amount of homebrew development community, sooner or later. Whether the homebrew crowd will be able to make commercial-quality games and have access to good, stable, high-quality tools durring the main lifecycle of the system, would be a different question, and I imagine there might be a lot more "no"s
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"Only two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity. The first is debatable." -Albert Einstein

Gopher wrote:

Well, to be fair, the question is just "Will there be DS homebrew dev?"
Almost every system has some amount of homebrew development community, sooner or later. Whether the homebrew crowd will be able to make commercial-quality games and have access to good, stable, high-quality tools durring the main lifecycle of the system, would be a different question, and I imagine there might be a lot more "no"s

True, I was really comparing it to the level of quality on the GBA compared to some commercial games. The DS is just too different. And besides, how the heck would an emulator emulate the touch screen? The only thing I can think of is to use a PDA, but that might require a speed hack to get it up to a "respectable" speed, and sooner or later, Nintendo is going to use that patent for the invention of speed hacks in their games to use.
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Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(

dagamer34 wrote:

how the heck would an emulator emulate the touch screen?

With the mouse?

-Brendan

There is nothing really strange about the DS hardware.. ARM7 and ARM9 are well documented and supported CPUs. gcc can do both.
The only problems are:
1: Ability to load code on to the DS.
2: Access to pheripheral documentation. (Can be obtained by RE, officially published by N (right..), or leaks)

Once theese two are solved, there is nothing that can stop the closet developers. :)

sgeos wrote:

dagamer34 wrote:

how the heck would an emulator emulate the touch screen?

With the mouse?

-Brendan

or my wacom table =D

dXtr wrote:

sgeos wrote:

dagamer34 wrote:

how the heck would an emulator emulate the touch screen?

With the mouse?

-Brendan

or my wacom table =D

You know, you really do have a nack for making me look bad...

But, it just won't be the same to me. All that clicking.
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Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(

ampz wrote:

There is nothing really strange about the DS hardware.. ARM7 and ARM9 are well documented and supported CPUs. gcc can do both.
The only problems are:
1: Ability to load code on to the DS.
2: Access to pheripheral documentation. (Can be obtained by RE, officially published by N (right..), or leaks)

Once theese two are solved, there is nothing that can stop the closet developers. :)

... except for a well implemented code signing regime.

notb4dinner wrote:

except for a well implemented code signing regime.

So does Microsoft's Xbox console. There exist two known ways around Xbox's code signing verification:

mod-chipping the part of the machine that checks the signature, or
exploiting a buffer overflow vulnerability in a game's savegame handling (see also the Agent Under Fire and MechAssault bootloaders).

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dagamer34 wrote:

dXtr wrote:

sgeos wrote:

dagamer34 wrote:

how the heck would an emulator emulate the touch screen?

With the mouse?

-Brendan

or my wacom table =D

You know, you really do have a nack for making me look bad...

It seemed obvious.

dagamer34 wrote:

But, it just won't be the same to me. All that clicking.

I agree. I loved the super scope games on the SNES. I understand that the super scope is emulated with the mouse. Far from the same. Real hardware is always better. With a Wacom tablet (mine is a lot smaller than a table =) it would be ok, but having the pen over the screen would be a lot nicer. The wacom screen-a-ma-jigs were really expensive last time I clicked. (sic)

-Brendan

ops did I write table ;D

They are comming out with, or have already producted LCD screens with a tablet built into it. You basically draw on the screen, as if it were paper and pencil. Not many people are gonna have those, but if you're that anal then there's that option.

phonymike wrote:

They are comming out with, or have already producted LCD screens with a tablet built into it. You basically draw on the screen, as if it were paper and pencil. Not many people are gonna have those, but if you're that anal then there's that option.

The emulator would have to support such a device. If there ever will be a "decent" one for development.
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Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(

phonymike wrote:

They are comming out with, or have already producted LCD screens with a tablet built into it. You basically draw on the screen, as if it were paper and pencil.

It's called, um, a PDA, right?

Quote:

Not many people are gonna have those

I used to own a Newton PDA, and I have known lots of people with Palm PDAs. If DS is too hard to crax0r, I guess we may have to switch to coding for cheap Palm PDAs.

dagamer34 wrote:

The emulator would have to support such a device.

I'm pretty sure the official Palm devkit includes an emulator.
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I've been considering development of the DS emulators, and for now we can assume it will have similar hardware to the N64 just for development purposes, as I don't believe they will be that different anyway. And once we know what they're really like we can adjust the engine - but again it should only be minor changes.

The two processors can easily be emulated, though I hate arm and thumb opcode arrangements.

As for loading to the DS - this can be done through the network port. Assuming they will also allow a network boot, you can just create a boot loader that can load the rest of the ROM into the DS.

I personally think that people should develop for the N64 and iQue instead of the DS though - the DS doesn't have analogue controls or all those buttons

Developing on another system just for buttons?!
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keldon wrote:

I personally think that people should develop for the N64 and iQue instead of the DS though - the DS doesn't have analogue controls or all those buttons

Um, the N64 and iQue don't have built in screens, touch screen, wireless connectivity, and GBA compatibility. Thanks, but no thanks -- I'll stick with the GBA and eventually the DS :)
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dennis

Lupin wrote:

Developing on another system just for buttons?!

the buttons make a difference with gameplay as it gives you more options - - not much debate about that one :-/

it has a touch screen - - that's good
N64 has 4 player multiplay versus wireless LAN
GBA compatibility has nought to do with development :-)

anyway it's simply an issue brought up since most developers here are homebrew, and the N64's right round the corner

I don't know how to program squat on the n64, and forgive me for saying this but, the n64 homebrew scene is deader than dead. If I wanted to use the n64 controller, I'd cut off the end and plug into the serial port on a gba :)

I don't know how soon, but you know that eventually there will be DS flash carts. Maybe they'll stick out a little at first (remember the first 64mbit gba cards were the size of an old GB cart, now they fit 16 times that into the size of an original GBA cart. Though I do hope there's a multiboot system, and preferably lots of internal RAM to store code.

Also about LCD screens, I meant like 17inch LCD monitors with a 'tablet' covering the whole screen, giving 512 levels of sensitivity, for emulating the touch screen. But again, the mouse is the most obvious answer for this 'problem.'

keldon wrote:

Lupin wrote:

Developing on another system just for buttons?!

the buttons make a difference with gameplay as it gives you more options - - not much debate about that one :-/

More buttons <> Better Gameplay

More Buttons are not always the best. With the buttons you have on the DS you can do pretty much and the touchscreen gives you more options to crontrol the game.

I just remember the PS2 controler have 4 shoulder buttons. But why the hell do i need 4 shoulder buttons.
I recognised that on many playstation games you have an extra button for every single action you can do in the game. But as a smart Game designer you wont need this much buttons the most time if you make a situation dependend control in your game. Just look at all the actions you can do with the A button in Zelda. You can talk to persons, open doors, collect item, ...

If you think the more buttons the better then play pc games. The Keyboard has more buttons than any other controler.
Or bye yourself a phantom (*lol*)

NoMis

Last edited by NoMis on Wed May 19, 2004 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

Think more buttons == better gameplay?

Think again, and think C64, Amiga and Atari. A single digital button and a four way digital stick is all they have.

More Buttons = more confusion ^_^

I don't think that more buttons == better gameplay, but it is nice that they are at least putting the same number of buttons that the SNES had.

Dan.

I think the A+B+X+Y buttons in the SNES are pushing it a bit for what is easy to use/learn..
Shoulder buttons are great, and A+B is fine, but the X+Y buttons do complicate things a bit. It takes me a while to learn which button do what for each SNES game.

I don't see the point of adding the X and Y buttons... Very few (if any) games really need thoose buttons. They just add confusion, and make it easier for game developers to do poor user interfaces.

ampz wrote:

I think the A+B+X+Y buttons in the SNES are pushing it a bit for what is easy to use/learn..
Shoulder buttons are great, and A+B is fine, but the X+Y buttons do complicate things a bit. It takes me a while to learn which button do what for each SNES game.

I don't see the point of adding the X and Y buttons... Very few (if any) games really need thoose buttons. They just add confusion, and make it easier for game developers to do poor user interfaces.

It depends on whether or not they want to continue porting SNES games to the DS. If so, then having X and Y are a good thing. :P

Dan.

I have a serious feeling that all the new ports will be N64 games :)

yes lots of N64 ports .. :-/

more buttons <> better gameplay .. but ..
more buttons == more choice

I wouldn't compare a mouse - touchscreen in the same way as a mouse - gun .... but a mouse will never come close as most people take longer to focus with a mouse than touch - - having said that you would have to lift your fingers off the d-pad / buttons to use it so few, if any would ever use the touch screen for fast paced gaming action

back to buttons - - the lack of analogue controls may prove a problem porting some N64 games, and also poses problems due to the nature of having a 3d perspective and range of movement. Having said that, good games can be made to use only the d-pad, but it completely eliminates the possibility of some whereas having one does not at all :)

Miked0801 wrote:

I have a serious feeling that all the new ports will be N64 games :)

Having the second screen there unused, will probably be what keeps developers from flooding the DS with N64 ports. I don't think Nintendo will allow developers to simply port games to make a cheap buck without using that second screen. The same thing will happen to the PSP and it's likely PS2 ports.
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(

Maybe they are just going to increase the resolution by using the second screen? :P

Or they just display a map or something...
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Because the DS cart can use info from the Gba cart (some games) surely there could be a way of having a gba flash cart programmed to send the information to a blank DS cart instead of saving the info from a PC to the GBA cart but bypassing the saving of the GBA and using the DS? wooo long sentence there.. But, that might work. when i said the ds cart can use info from the GBA one, i didn't mean it would send GBA info straight to the DS cart. That would be easier for this process, but could bring other problems. It probably meets further inside the machine, and when i said programming the GBA cart before, that is to send the information to be saved to the connection point, then make it turn back to the DS slot. Too bad i won't be getting a DS 'till next year. Nintendo of europe always delay. Why can't just be one of the US states? Oh, yea. i see. :( .

A GBA game can access the GB/GBC sound hardware in the GBA. This does no mean a GB/GBC game can access the GBA hardware (like the ARM7, memory, graphics modes) in the GBA.
The same could very well be true for the DS. Just because a DS game can access the GBA hardware does not mean a GBA game can access the DS hardware.

ampz is correct except for two possibilities:

Super Game Boy style operation, or
a hole similar to that of MechInstaller for the Xbox, leveraging a buffer overflow to load DS code from the GBA slot.

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I suppose you could be right, but i didn't mean it like the GBA accessing the DS. The DS accessing the GBA, then the info getting taken to the DS cart, and saved there. Might that work instead?

loading a game into the DS will never be known until we know how the whole machine works. It could be this or that - but there's no point in speculating until then.

Just wait till someone gets hold of one and opens it up and gets to play with the hardware, for now there is nothing other than guessing how it works.

If we can't do homebrew on the new machine, there are always the SNK's and cybiko's

I feel like a traitor, cause now I'm working out here where Mike works (on a DS project, no less), so I know all about it.
Well, not ALL about it, since I haven't thouroughly read the docs yet either, but still, I wish I could spill something to you guys, since I wouldn't be where I am without this forum^^
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The best optimization is to do nothing at all.
Therefore a fully optimized program doesn't exist.
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Offtopic, but hey, congrats, Deku! Nice to see a fellow Missourian make it into the industry. Where are you from, anyhow?

DekuTree64 wrote:

I feel like a traitor, cause now I'm working out here where Mike works (on a DS project, no less), so I know all about it.
Well, not ALL about it, since I haven't thouroughly read the docs yet either, but still, I wish I could spill something to you guys, since I wouldn't be where I am without this forum^^

Hmm... interesting. What would happen if say... those documents accidentally slipped into a scanner and those pictures accidentally made it to this site? Hypothetically, of course!!

Nintendo said that they were going to change the design of the system. Do the docs say anything about that? Or is it simply hardware specs.
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Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(

Then hypothetically, he'd be moving back home :)

Just as the same thing would happen to me...

So you're a official developer for the DS?
then maybe you could atleast answear this.. cuz I've always been wondering...

When you become a developer for nintendo, do you get like tons of documents and manuals and tutorials and stuff like that? or just a little book containing registers.

and are the development tools (like hardware and compilers) any good? Is there a IDE for the tools?

I hopy you might could atleast answear some of them =)

You get access to a bunch of large classified docs with information about the DS, access to their news server, and access to their official web site. We are right now where the homebrew community will be in about 1.5 years if one does come into existance with this stuff. We are also allowed to buy official hardware and software. Can't tell you anything in those docs though or what the tools are like until there's more info in the public sector - sorry.

ok. thanks
Just wonder how it looks.. if the official devkits from nintendo and other consoles are great or really crap and you need tro write youe own tools ;D

Miked0801 wrote:

You get access to a bunch of large classified docs with information about the DS, access to their news server, and access to their official web site. We are right now where the homebrew community will be in about 1.5 years if one does come into existance with this stuff. We are also allowed to buy official hardware and software. Can't tell you anything in those docs though or what the tools are like until there's more info in the public sector - sorry.

Why 1.5 years? Is it too much for us?
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Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(

Miked0801 wrote:

Can't tell you anything in those docs though or what the tools are like until there's more info in the public sector - sorry.

So how long until you know everything there is to know about the DS?

-Brendan

Quote:

Why 1.5 years? Is it too much for us?

About 1.5 years as homebrew was roughly 1 year behind on the GBA (from my perspective) and the DS is a more complex machine.

Quote:

So how long until you know everything there is to know about the DS?

I still don't know everything about the GBA and it took me about 2 years to really feel I'd mastered the GBC (an exceedingly simple machine in comparison). I have know idea - I guess I'd be decent in a month, proficient on 6, and really good in a year. But I'm also a very strong developer. YMMV.

and dXtr, Nintendo docs in general are nice. I don't like their demo/sample code, but the docs are great.

Seeing as how homebrew GBA development is pretty mature, do you still have to hold back because of the NDA Miked? Or is it as soon as the "public" knows something, you are allowed to discuss it more freely?

I can't wait 1.5 years. Any suggestions to help speed it up?
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Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(

Yes of course. Anytime I'm typing up info - especially at all related to DS - I look at it 3 or 4 times just to be sure I still have job when my boss reads it. I won't be able to tell anyone squat for months on it.

With GBA, I have had extensive info for months about the Nintendo RFU unit as I was the first person to get the thing working outside of Japan (my Japanese got a bit better too.) A couple of times I had to go edit posts to make sure that I kept that secret until it was officially announced. Just like the game I'm working on now is confidential and the previous which was Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaben (recently announced so I can mention it.) This board is a great resource to me for finding obsure information about the GBA or bouncing off the wall ideas off other developers. I pay for that info by helping people in kind. I just have to be real careful in how I do that.

So yes there is still GBA stuff that I can't announce or discuss even now. (Even now I'm editing this post for content.) That 1.5 years thing fo DS may be offbase, it may not. It just depends how quick someone gets a decent emulator running or someone leaks info. The person that leaks though will not be me.

If the top five posters on this forum just put their huge brains together I bet they could reduse that 1,5 years thing to 5 months=)

One can always dream...

alek wrote:

If the top five posters on this forum just put their huge brains together I bet they could reduce that 1,5 years thing to 5 months=)

One can always dream...

Let me go save up my money to buy a DS first, then I'll try to help. Good thing I'm number 6!!!
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Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(

alek wrote:

If the top five posters on this forum just put their huge brains together I bet they could reduse that 1,5 years thing to 5 months=)
One can always dream...

It took quite a while before we could even run any code on GBA hardware. At least a year.
Judging from the information available, the DS may be a significantly harder nut to crack.

dagamer34 wrote:

Let me go save up my money to buy a DS first, then I'll try to help. Good thing I'm number 6!!!

As number six your ambition should be to be among the top 5 you should not feel reliefed that you are number 6:)

alek wrote:

If the top five posters on this forum just put their huge brains together I bet they could reduse that 1,5 years thing to 5 months=)

Sorry, I don't do much electrical engineering, nor have I learned to interpret a disassembly of ARM code. And if the DS carts are encrypted... remember that Capcom's CPS-2 still hasn't been 100 percent cracked. If dagamer34 wants to have my seat on the DS RE team, it's fine by me :)

ampz wrote:

It took quite a while before we could even run any code on GBA hardware. At least a year.

It also took roughly a year for the GBA hardware to become available in U.S. chain stores (rather than importers), didn't it?
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tepples wrote:

ampz wrote:

It took quite a while before we could even run any code on GBA hardware. At least a year.

It also took roughly a year for the GBA hardware to become available in U.S. chain stores (rather than importers), didn't it?

I wouldn't know. I live in Sweden.
And I don't really see how the release date in various countries is important. Hackers live in all countries in the world. And besides, the really fanatic ones imported it from lik-sang as soon as it was available anyway.

Hey Miked, could you at least tell us how comfortable it is to hold the DS with one hand while using the stylus with the other? Surely that wouldn't be classified.

Oh, and by the way, I'm new on these forums. I'm an official Tapwave Zodiac developer, soon to be an official Inifinium Phantom developer, and I'm an unofficial GBA developer.

Good question, but as it's not public knowledge yet, I can't really tell you. But this early before release, I doubt the hardware/form-factor is final yet anyways.

Miked0801 wrote:

Good question, but as it's not public knowledge yet, I can't really tell you. But this early before release, I doubt the hardware/form-factor is final yet anyways.

Nintendo said that they would start production of the DS in the summer, giving them about 1-2 month period to finish the retail prototype and then begin manufacturing. So it really isn't that early.
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Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(

Trust me, they'll be tweaking the design up to the last 2 weeks - just like they've done on every other product...

Yeah, I guess it will kinda be like how much the PSP changed from the initial concepts up to the E3 models - Sony watched the public's reaction in regards to the PSP concepts and changed it a bit, so Nintendo will probably listen to the criticisms and make something hopefully a little more sexy.

I don't know it looked abit like that could be the final look. When I watched some movies and saw some high quality pictures I am starting to see a more finished product rather than a quick put together everyone believes it to be.

Seeing as they never forgot about the realistic Zelda everyone wanted, they might change the design. I think they might of liked to have kept the design but now they may be thinking it over.

*not really related to this topic entirely but..*
dagamer, it's weird you have that signature now, because that has been my signature on the nintendo boards (.co.uk) for more than a month! oh well, coincidences.. or maybe not...

zazery wrote:

I don't know it looked abit like that could be the final look. When I watched some movies and saw some high quality pictures I am starting to see a more finished product rather than a quick put together everyone believes it to be.

If you ever take a look at the issues that show the revealing of the Nintendo Gamecube, take a look at the controller and the one now. Notice how the B button has changed and the color scheme is a bit different. Except now everyone is expecting the changes, so they will probably deliver.

Fatnickc wrote:

*not really related to this topic entirely but..*
dagamer, it's weird you have that signature now, because that has been my signature on the nintendo boards (.co.uk) for more than a month! oh well, coincidences.. or maybe not...

I only found out about the quote from the latest issue of GameInformer, which had E3 coverage.

I've only been to the Nintendo.com boards 4 times; I'm usually at the Playstation.com boards in the PSP Handheld topics, simply because there is so many fanboys crazily bashing the DS, someone needs to defend it. If you ever go there, you'll see what I mean....
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Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(

Yes, i guessed you hadn't taken it. It's just a quote. Anyway, i think the DS changes might be minimal as they said 'this is not the FINAL look' that usually means, they will keep most things, but changed some.

Fatnickc wrote:

Yes, i guessed you hadn't taken it. It's just a quote. Anyway, i think the DS changes might be minimal as they said 'this is not the FINAL look' that usually means, they will keep most things, but changed some.

Yeah, we were talking to the Nintendo reps at E3 and they were talking about how they didnt know where to put the stylus yet :=)

dagamer34 wrote:

If you ever take a look at the issues that show the revealing of the Nintendo Gamecube, take a look at the controller and the one now. Notice how the B button has changed and the color scheme is a bit different. Except now everyone is expecting the changes, so they will probably deliver.

It's more fun to compare to the first dolphin controller tests =)

Simon

SimonB wrote:

dagamer34 wrote:

If you ever take a look at the issues that show the revealing of the Nintendo Gamecube, take a look at the controller and the one now. Notice how the B button has changed and the color scheme is a bit different. Except now everyone is expecting the changes, so they will probably deliver.

It's more fun to compare to the first dolphin controller tests =)

Simon

That's a bit over the top... :)

How did you get a picture of that anyway? Or is it a leak?
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(

dagamer34 wrote:

How did you get a picture of that anyway? Or is it a leak?

Me? Nah, that's Shiggsy's controller test pcb...and pics :)

Simon

Lol, SimonB - Imagine playing with that, we wouldn't be able to tease the Xbox fanboys about their huge controllers :)

Anyway, I reckon Nintendo will change the DS slightly to look more sexy, but they won't change the overall layout. They'll probably change the colour schemes like they did with the GBA - I miss the good old silver and green/orange schemes.

But what I really want to know is what the hell the name of the system will be! I reckon it will be called Nitro, but until Nintendo confirms the name, who knows what it'll be.

I believe that the DS will still go through changes, not just design. There was an article I saw at PlanetGameCube that because of the oddness of controlling Metroid Prime: Hunters, Nintendo plans on including a non-touch screen control option. Analog stick anyone? It would be great if that was it, because games such like Mario64 4 will not have the jerkiness that the D-Pad brings forth.
_________________
DS - It's all about DiscoStew

DiscoStew wrote:

Nintendo plans on including a non-touch screen control option. Analog stick anyone? It would be great if that was it, because games such like Mario64 4 will not have the jerkiness that the D-Pad brings forth.

That's true, but how would you close the lid with an analog stick in the way?
_________________
I'm just off to Hartleypool to buy some exploding trousers. Cluck, cluck, gibber, gibber, "my old man's a mushroom", et cetera.

Mr. Ploppy wrote:

DiscoStew wrote:

Nintendo plans on including a non-touch screen control option. Analog stick anyone? It would be great if that was it, because games such like Mario64 4 will not have the jerkiness that the D-Pad brings forth.

That's true, but how would you close the lid with an analog stick in the way?

The PSP has an anolog stick that just rises a millimeter or two above the surface of the console

There are all sorts of possible designs for a near-flat analog direction control. What about a pressure-sensitive analog pad like the one in the PS2? What about a slide element like on the old NES Max controller?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.

What about jus using the touch screen itself as analog - the farther from center you touch, the faster he moves :)

I wish the d-pad was raised a little bit more because playing a fighting game on a SP is just plain difficult. :(
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(

You can get little stick-on pads to raise the height a little if you want :)

well if i am not wrong DS also means Developer System
hopefully Netendeo release a offcial carts for DS...
_________________
Leo's Law of Programming
------
"A Program Is Useless Without A Purpose Is Like A Man Without A Life"
Leo~

You can read about what other people on this board think about that in this thread

gbadev.org forum archive

DS development > DS Dev

#20487 - zazery - Wed May 12, 2004 3:39 am

#20535 - Miked0801 - Wed May 12, 2004 4:47 pm

#20537 - ampz - Wed May 12, 2004 5:38 pm

#20550 - dagamer34 - Thu May 13, 2004 12:15 am

#20551 - ampz - Thu May 13, 2004 12:20 am

#20553 - tepples - Thu May 13, 2004 1:07 am

#20555 - ampz - Thu May 13, 2004 1:20 am

#20559 - MumblyJoe - Thu May 13, 2004 2:31 am

#20562 - zazery - Thu May 13, 2004 2:39 am

#20566 - MumblyJoe - Thu May 13, 2004 4:23 am

#20569 - DiscoStew - Thu May 13, 2004 5:40 am

#20574 - FluBBa - Thu May 13, 2004 8:41 am

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#20677 - Miked0801 - Fri May 14, 2004 6:10 pm

#20692 - dagamer34 - Sat May 15, 2004 1:29 am

#20703 - Gopher - Sat May 15, 2004 12:55 pm

#20711 - dagamer34 - Sat May 15, 2004 3:12 pm

#20712 - sgeos - Sat May 15, 2004 3:42 pm

#20715 - ampz - Sat May 15, 2004 4:51 pm

#20716 - dXtr - Sat May 15, 2004 4:57 pm

#20717 - dagamer34 - Sat May 15, 2004 5:09 pm

#20721 - notb4dinner - Sun May 16, 2004 12:17 am

#20724 - tepples - Sun May 16, 2004 2:00 am

#20727 - sgeos - Sun May 16, 2004 4:21 am

#20737 - dXtr - Sun May 16, 2004 3:08 pm

#20738 - phonymike - Sun May 16, 2004 4:14 pm

#20739 - dagamer34 - Sun May 16, 2004 5:36 pm

#20746 - tepples - Sun May 16, 2004 10:38 pm

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#20833 - Lupin - Tue May 18, 2004 3:38 pm

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#20910 - Miked0801 - Wed May 19, 2004 7:04 pm

#20914 - keldon - Wed May 19, 2004 7:51 pm

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#21007 - Lupin - Fri May 21, 2004 3:34 pm

#21015 - Fatnickc - Fri May 21, 2004 4:20 pm

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#21045 - Fatnickc - Sat May 22, 2004 11:33 am

#21053 - keldon - Sat May 22, 2004 2:46 pm

#21167 - DekuTree64 - Tue May 25, 2004 6:07 am

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#21226 - dagamer34 - Wed May 26, 2004 3:54 am

#21275 - Miked0801 - Wed May 26, 2004 4:41 pm

#21289 - dXtr - Wed May 26, 2004 8:06 pm

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#21318 - dXtr - Thu May 27, 2004 6:24 pm

#21321 - dagamer34 - Thu May 27, 2004 8:26 pm

#21322 - sgeos - Thu May 27, 2004 8:50 pm

#21329 - Miked0801 - Thu May 27, 2004 10:44 pm

#21352 - dagamer34 - Fri May 28, 2004 3:36 am

#21367 - Miked0801 - Fri May 28, 2004 5:23 am

#21400 - alek - Fri May 28, 2004 8:06 pm

#21425 - dagamer34 - Sat May 29, 2004 12:10 am

#21431 - ampz - Sat May 29, 2004 2:22 am

#21444 - alek - Sat May 29, 2004 10:34 am

#21453 - tepples - Sat May 29, 2004 3:39 pm

#21481 - ampz - Sat May 29, 2004 10:03 pm

#22299 - PhoenixSoft - Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:27 am

#22376 - Miked0801 - Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:14 pm

#22388 - dagamer34 - Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:17 am

#22394 - Miked0801 - Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:17 am

#22397 - PhoenixSoft - Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:52 am

#22398 - zazery - Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:54 am

#22399 - Fatnickc - Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:16 am