#20971 - ampz - Thu May 20, 2004 10:05 pm
The DS memory card is obviously very different from earlier gameboy memory cards.
GB, GBC and GBA memory cards are memory mapped, and code is executed right off the cards.
Now, the DS card only has 17pins, this is far from sufficient for a memory mapped memory card. So, data must be copied from the card to internal RAM before it is executed. This means the DS card is most likely a block device (like compact flash, SD card, memorystick...).
17pins is about right for a block device. You got VCC and GND, 8 data pins, a read pin, a write pin, a chip select and/or a clock pin, a interrupt or DMA event pin, and a few (2 or 3) register address pins.
Another thing wich is also very different is that the DS cards most likely does not support battery backed sram savegames. The cards are simply too small. Unless they have separate savegame memory cards or savegame memory internal to the DS (I find both rather unlikely), the only savegame memory types they may have used are EEPROM and flash.
This could mean both good and bad news... Good news could be that there is a chance inexpensive compact-flash style memories could be adapted to work with the DS. Bad news is that with block memory, one is relatively free to implement various copy protection / encryption / digital certificate technologies. Think this is the case?
#20984 - Miked0801 - Fri May 21, 2004 12:21 am
Very well though out... :)
#20990 - tepples - Fri May 21, 2004 2:09 am
| ampz wrote: |
| Bad news is that with block memory, one is relatively free to implement various copy protection / encryption / digital certificate technologies. |
Same thing can be done with random-access ROM cartridges such as those used in the Atari 7800, Atari Lynx, and Atari Jaguar systems.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#21031 - ampz - Fri May 21, 2004 11:43 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| ampz wrote: | | Bad news is that with block memory, one is relatively free to implement various copy protection / encryption / digital certificate technologies. |
Same thing can be done with random-access ROM cartridges such as those used in the Atari 7800, Atari Lynx, and Atari Jaguar systems. |
Well, you can do some tricks with random access memory, but you cannot for example encrypt the entire cart and then decrypt it in realtime when running. This can be done with block addressed memory.
#21036 - tepples - Sat May 22, 2004 2:13 am
| ampz wrote: |
| you can do some tricks with random access memory, but you cannot for example encrypt the entire cart and then decrypt it in realtime when running. |
Tell that to anybody who has tried to emulate Capcom CPS-2.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#21051 - ampz - Sat May 22, 2004 2:14 pm
I stand corrected. Capcom have gone to great lengths to implement realtime hardware decryption.
With block memory, Nintendo could simply use software decryption.
#21511 - Guest - Sun May 30, 2004 7:41 am
Here a image u can look at of it
[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]
And it dose indeade look like a SD card
#21514 - SimonB - Sun May 30, 2004 9:49 am
And here is another picture that I took focusing on the connectors of the card:
http://gbadev.org/e3_2004/e3_2004_d2_08.jpg
Simon
#21517 - ampz - Sun May 30, 2004 11:47 am
Yeah. That's where I counted the connectors :)
#21522 - dagamer34 - Sun May 30, 2004 9:39 pm
I was wondering what that was a picture of. Captions would help next time!
And the cards are really, really thin. I hope that means that they don't break or get lost easily.
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#21524 - ampz - Sun May 30, 2004 9:58 pm
| dagamer34 wrote: |
I was wondering what that was a picture of. Captions would help next time!
And the cards are really, really thin. I hope that means that they don't break or get lost easily. |
They look sturdy enough to me. Only reason GBA carts are thicker is that they contain a battery.
#21584 - ampz - Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:00 pm
I just realized...
Nintendo says: "For its compact cards, the unit uses newly developed semiconductor memory, which allows for lower cost, shorter manufacturing time and memory capacity of more than one gigabit of information. "
Shorter manufacturing time... Think they are talking about programmable memory, like flash or OTP EPROM?
#21664 - tepples - Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:38 pm
CONFIRMED: The new memory technology is indeed OTP (one time programmable) semiconductor memory similar to EPROM or flash.
SPECULATION: It's just flash memory, with all of the blocks write-protected by a fuse blown on the card except those designated for savegame data.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#21667 - ampz - Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:02 pm
It does not really help us anyway.
But it is interesting.
#22261 - PhoenixSoft - Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:54 am
Perhaps saves will be stored on the unit itself, that's the way Nintendo kept the size of the Pokemon Mini cartridges down (I have a Pokemon Mini so I would know). My question is, does the system have an RTC built in? Because how can Animal Crossing DS work unless it has an RTC to check? I doubt those tiny carts can have an RTC built in.
Maybe Nintendo will sell special GBA carts designed for storing DS game save data so you can just plug in the cart and have access to all your saves off it.
#22276 - sgeos - Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:50 pm
| PhoenixSoft wrote: |
| Maybe Nintendo will sell special GBA carts designed for storing DS game save data so you can just plug in the cart and have access to all your saves off it. |
Perhaps a flash cart with a special header?
-Brendan
#22283 - dagamer34 - Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:01 pm
| PhoenixSoft wrote: |
| Perhaps saves will be stored on the unit itself, that's the way Nintendo kept the size of the Pokemon Mini cartridges down (I have a Pokemon Mini so I would know). My question is, does the system have an RTC built in? Because how can Animal Crossing DS work unless it has an RTC to check? I doubt those tiny carts can have an RTC built in. |
I'm hoping that the DS has an OS-like interface that includes the RTC and PictoChat function so there is no need to keep swapping carts. I really do doubt that RTC can be built into a cart, with then being so small. I hope it's built-in the system along with save game memory because I am really tired of people borrowing my games and erasing them (especially Pokemon)
| PhoenixSoft wrote: |
| Maybe Nintendo will sell special GBA carts designed for storing DS game save data so you can just plug in the cart and have access to all your saves off it. |
I don't think that would be a good idea. Maybe if the system still had save game memory built-in and you want to keep and extra copy, that would be all-right, otherwise, for general purpose saving, it would cause increased wear on the connectors. Kind of how some flash carts with external linkers are now, except much worse.
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#22327 - phonymike - Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:37 am
would be very awesome if there was internal sram and you could connect the DS to your computer to manage saves. also trade saves online and stuff.
would be even more awesome if connecting to the computer you could upload small multiboot like code to hold up to its name.
#22348 - dagamer34 - Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:56 am
| phonymike wrote: |
| would be even more awesome if connecting to the computer you could upload small multiboot like code to hold up to its name. |
I think Nintendo would have to make a name change: Nintendo Licensed Developer's System. :)
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#22361 - PhoenixSoft - Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:35 am
I'm wondering if it will accept code over WiFi as well or only over Ninty's proprietary protocol... If it accepts code over WiFi, it would be simple to test programs on it!
#22362 - Zero - Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:57 am
if it did accept code over standard 802.11b there would probably be a protocol on top of that, that is encrypted and/or proprietary. like http or ftp sit on top of tcp. and tcp sits on top of ip......
dstp://myprogram....... 8)
![[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]](http://img46.photobucket.com/albums/v142/trinest/sexy-hands-on-nintendo-ds-images-20040521010403100-000.jpg){kind=link}