#22779 - Leo - Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:43 am
Hi ya all...
i am planning a homebrew game for DS
if u would like to join me to make the game post here...
(btw gba programmers needed)
Current Stage of Development :
Planning and thinking for ideas...
Current Job :
Collecting Ds Specs...
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Leo's Law of Programming
------
"A Program Is Useless Without A Purpose Is Like A Man Without A Life"
Leo~
#22815 - dagamer34 - Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:20 pm
Umm... I'm not sure what exactly you are planning to do on a system that has yet to be released. Nintendo hasn't even announced the official design of the system.
It's good to ambitious. Maybe you should wait just a little bit longer (like when we can actually run some code on the system) before you annnounce you want to make a homebrew DS game.
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#22816 - Zero - Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:22 pm
never hurts to be prepared, but after i started The DS Wiki way to early it has died of cause of no news. (I expect it to pick up again once people start figuring the system out).
#22839 - zazery - Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:45 am
| Zero wrote: |
| (I expect it to pick up again once people start figuring the system out). |
I hope that is really fast, I've been itching to try it since I saw it for the first time. I don't know if this pong game that Leo mentioned is a community project. But I think it would be great if everyone here worked on one game together with source code released so people could learn from it while some tutorials are being written for it.
#22841 - Shock The Dark Mage - Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:32 am
I'm interessed by your idea of the first homebrew DS game.
Please contact me when you'll get more info about programming the DS.
I program for the GBA at this moment, and Pong isn't very hard to do.
Jabber: darkshock@linux-quebec.org
MSN and email: shock@shockdev.ca.tc
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Founding membre of Pixel Coders.
#22842 - Leo - Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:50 am
| zazery wrote: |
| Zero wrote: | | (I expect it to pick up again once people start figuring the system out). |
I hope that is really fast, I've been itching to try it since I saw it for the first time. I don't know if this pong game that Leo mentioned is a community project. But I think it would be great if everyone here worked on one game together with source code released so people could learn from it while some tutorials are being written for it. |
ya it is a community project.
and i will also release the source code.
but now i am collecting specs of the ds to fully uterlise the power of the ds
_________________
Leo's Law of Programming
------
"A Program Is Useless Without A Purpose Is Like A Man Without A Life"
Leo~
#22869 - ampz - Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:02 pm
| Leo wrote: |
ya it is a community project.
and i will also release the source code.
but now i am collecting specs of the ds to fully uterlise the power of the ds |
Yeah, you probably need to squeeze the most out of the DS hardware if you want it to run something as complicated as pong... :D
#22924 - Leo - Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:57 am
Here is the update :
Ds specs collected...
next face plan a interface for pong...
any one with ideas?
post here...
_________________
Leo's Law of Programming
------
"A Program Is Useless Without A Purpose Is Like A Man Without A Life"
Leo~
#22951 - tepples - Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:46 pm
Controls: place pen where you want the paddle. Speed of pen on paddle-ball collision determines english placed on ball.
Bottom screen: view from player's side of the field as in air hockey.
Top screen: scoreboard.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#22957 - dagamer34 - Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:31 pm
| tepples wrote: |
Controls: place pen where you want the paddle. Speed of pen on paddle-ball collision determines english placed on ball.
Bottom screen: view from player's side of the field as in air hockey.
Top screen: scoreboard. |
Wow, a whole screen for a scoreboard. Maybe you should add some fans too. And a commentator. I think John Madden's contract with the NFL is up. :)
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#22966 - grumpycat - Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:32 pm
| tepples wrote: |
Controls: place pen where you want the paddle. Speed of pen on paddle-ball collision determines english placed on ball.
Bottom screen: view from player's side of the field as in air hockey.
Top screen: scoreboard. |
I think tepples is on to something here.
Also, the angle of the pen could affect the Z-rotation of the ball... sending the ball out of the screen. That would be very cool.
Also a view mode where you see the ball's perspective - projected down onto the lawn, but not so far as to affect the gait.
This sounds exciting. I can't wait to play it.
#22968 - tepples - Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:45 pm
| dagamer34 wrote: |
| Wow, a whole screen for a scoreboard. Maybe you should add some fans too. |
In other words, like NHL Stanley Cup for Super NES?
| Quote: |
| And a commentator. I think John Madden's contract with the NFL is up. :) |
Nope.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#22980 - dagamer34 - Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:27 am
| tepples wrote: |
| dagamer34 wrote: | | Wow, a whole screen for a scoreboard. Maybe you should add some fans too. |
In other words, like NHL Stanley Cup for Super NES?
| Quote: | | And a commentator. I think John Madden's contract with the NFL is up. :) |
Nope. |
The last part was a joke. Notice the smiley at the end?
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#22983 - Shock The Dark Mage - Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:43 am
| tepples wrote: |
Controls: place pen where you want the paddle. Speed of pen on paddle-ball collision determines english placed on ball.
Bottom screen: view from player's side of the field as in air hockey.
Top screen: scoreboard. |
Yeah, I was thinking out to use the pen to move the paddle.
Also I think I will make many views like the plain and old classic view, and other views suggested by yours.
If only GCC 3.40 was supporting ARM946E-S and the homebrew have one programming document :'(
_________________
Founding membre of Pixel Coders.
#22988 - tepples - Fri Jul 02, 2004 5:12 am
Doesn't GCC already support ARM9 instructions? Then the problem would reduce to finding and REing the registers.
There exists an official emulator. Once that's leaked all hell will break loose.
Non-framebuffer 3D hardware and dual processors point to the real meaning of DS: "Duplicating Saturn". The Sega Saturn console faked 3D through rot/scale sprites.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#22989 - DiscoStew - Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:51 am
Would the official emulator ever be leaked? It could be, but I would think that anyone that has ever seen it might have gone through a "reveal/leak this and your dead" contract or something.
It has only been recently that I found out about the Sega Saturn's fake 3D, but wasn't the PS1 not a true 3D machine too? Something about pseudo-3D caught my eye many years ago in an article, but I never looked further on that.
_________________
DS - It's all about DiscoStew
#22990 - Zero - Fri Jul 02, 2004 7:11 am
the e3 demo footage i saw didn't look so fake? i don't know how the saturn faked though i never used/saw one. I do hope though that in the 2d core each of the 4 layers can have a z value for polygon/pixel sorting. so that both could be used on a screen at the same time.
#22997 - PhoenixSoft - Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:48 am
| DiscoStew wrote: |
| Would the official emulator ever be leaked? It could be, but I would think that anyone that has ever seen it might have gone through a "reveal/leak this and your dead" contract or something. |
I believe the words you are searching for are "Non Disclosure Agreement" :)
#22999 - keldon - Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:39 pm
well it doesn't take much for Ninty to distribute emulators watermarked with details of who's version it is; so we'll never see one. no$gba has one so I doubt Ninty wouldn't include one.
#23011 - Miked0801 - Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:31 pm
Bad info here - I got confused. :)
Last edited by Miked0801 on Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
#23012 - DiscoStew - Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:40 pm
And the infamous "No Dongle" software crack ;)
I've got LightWave 5.6 that requires a dongle to use. It saddens me to see people who look on the internet to find those cracks to use these products illegally. :(
_________________
DS - It's all about DiscoStew
#23054 - tepples - Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:40 am
Most executable watermarks are based on one of two things: either text, or exchanging equivalent instructions such as ADD #x with SUB #-x, SUB r1, r2, r3 with RSB r1, r3, r2, etc. They can prove easy to defeat if you have leaks from multiple sources, showing where watermarks are likely to hide.
Yes, the original PlayStation was a true 32-bit machine, with dedicated coprocessors for triangle filling and T&L.
This framebufferless rendering may have implications for how much transparency a scene can use, as remember that a GBA can't do sprite-on-sprite transparency.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#23061 - DiscoStew - Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:54 am
| tepples wrote: |
| Yes, the original PlayStation was a true 32-bit machine, with dedicated coprocessors for triangle filling and T&L |
I know it was a 32-bit machine, I was referring to 3D processing, but I guess the triangle filling was the answer. The PS1 had T&L? I thought consoles like the PS2, GC, and XBox started using T&L.
I assumed the PS1 wasn't a true 3D machine because of what I read years ago, plus for the fact that the polygons looked kinda odd as they move on the screen, like the points of the polygons didn't move quite smoothly from one point to another.
_________________
DS - It's all about DiscoStew
#23065 - tepples - Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:35 am
| DiscoStew wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | Yes, the original PlayStation was a true 32-bit machine, with dedicated coprocessors for triangle filling and T&L |
I know it was a 32-bit machine, I was referring to 3D processing, but I guess the triangle filling was the answer. The PS1 had T&L? I thought consoles like the PS2, GC, and XBox started using T&L. |
Because the MIPS processor model in the PS1 didn't have a floating-point unit, Sony added the GTE chip (not Verizon but Geometry Transformation Engine) to help with vector arithmetic chores such as transformation and lighting.
| Quote: |
| I assumed the PS1 wasn't a true 3D machine because of what I read years ago, plus for the fact that the polygons looked kinda odd as they move on the screen, like the points of the polygons didn't move quite smoothly from one point to another. |
That's quantization. It seems either the GTE or the triangle filler would sometimes lose precision and round vertices to pixel boundaries. In addition, the triangle filler (called GPU, nothing to do with NVIDIA) used affine texture mapping, and later games compensated by subdividing larger surfaces.
TRIVIA: The GBA uses the PS1's pixel formats almost exactly. Major difference is that the PS1 uses linear textures instead of the tiled textures of GBA sprites.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#23067 - wintermute - Sat Jul 03, 2004 9:29 am
| tepples wrote: |
Doesn't GCC already support ARM9 instructions? Then the problem would reduce to finding and REing the registers.
|
it certainly does - I've avoided doing anything GBA specific to devkitARM for just that reason. It should, in theory, be sufficient to provide a suitable crt0 and linkscript and use the appropriate -mcpu option.
| Quote: |
There exists an official emulator. Once that's leaked all hell will break loose.
Non-framebuffer 3D hardware and dual processors point to the real meaning of DS: "Duplicating Saturn". The Sega Saturn console faked 3D through rot/scale sprites. |
hmm. would such a scheme be able to support Z & W buffering?
#23083 - tepples - Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:51 pm
The NES, Game Boy, Super NES, and GBA have both framebufferless rendering and a Z buffer. Each sprite (and each background on Super NES and GBA) has a "priority" value which is really a one- or two-bit Z value. I didn't know of a W-buffer until I just checked it on Google, but it appears to mean a Z-buffer in a different numeric encoding.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#23243 - Leo - Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:09 pm
UPDATE :
Idea planned out....
inproving on it...
sketch out soon..
_________________
Leo's Law of Programming
------
"A Program Is Useless Without A Purpose Is Like A Man Without A Life"
Leo~
#23452 - wintermute - Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:15 am
| tepples wrote: |
| The NES, Game Boy, Super NES, and GBA have both framebufferless rendering and a Z buffer. Each sprite (and each background on Super NES and GBA) has a "priority" value which is really a one- or two-bit Z value. I didn't know of a W-buffer until I just checked it on Google, but it appears to mean a Z-buffer in a different numeric encoding. |
W is 1/Z, it means you have greater resolution closer to the viewer.
I see what you mean about the sprites but I find it difficult to imagine HW 3D as rotated scaled sprites. I suppose when all's said and done it's a natural progression from sprite rendering though.
The part I have trouble with is the per pixel granularity of the 'priority' that would be needed to fake Z or W buffering effectively
#23930 - foog - Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:40 pm
classic pong veiw on top
air hocky first person veiw on bottom
use the styllus to move the airhocky thingy? and have a classic pong veiw on the top screen (use the d-pad to move it or the L and R buttons). a picture/picture view would be cool too. the score text can be transparent to save more screens space for extra features....
thas what im thinking about..... i have a few more ideas.
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#23941 - Leo - Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:50 am
foog cool idea i will try to fit my ideas in your ideas...
_________________
Leo's Law of Programming
------
"A Program Is Useless Without A Purpose Is Like A Man Without A Life"
Leo~
#23947 - foog - Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:42 am
ok, now for gameplay ideas
i was thinking of a mario tennis esque....
you choose from different characters that have there own special abilities....
when you score a point your character can do a celebration on one of the screens...
you can have power shots (speeds the ball up), some kind of funky (a special move that varies w/ every character), and maybe some others....
of course there could be different options, (classic pong, air hockey, new pong, and what other things people can think of)....
airhockey would give you the ability of move the paddle in true 2d (up, down, left, and right).
------
then you have different boards.
-slow, fast, intermediate (speeds)
-maybe a board w/ rubber on the side walls that makes it bounce more than normal
-etc. (all i can think of at the moment)
ill come back w/ more ideas if i get a reply again
_________________
want to earn some cash?? no joke, its awesome!
http://tinyurl.com/5dvuw