#23560 - rapso - Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:58 am
as nintendo said, it doesn't matter if the PSP is more powerfull than the DS, what counts is the gameplay. That's why this console will have a dual screen and one of them with a kind of touchpad(?)
My question to _you_ is, if _you_ could make a game for the DS now, what kind of game would you create that excites the gameplay by using the new features of the DS that the PSP doesn't have.
I think it's allways easy to say "i want a faster and more realistic 3d graphic" but to invent a completely new gameplay experience is some kind of hard.
of course, all of us can make a 3d level and an overview map on the second screen, but you can put this map as an alphablend overlay to the normal 3d screen...
what will _you_ do with the second screen?
greets
rapso
#23566 - mymateo - Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:38 am
Hmmm..
Okay, let's say we have a splinter cell type game, top screen is your 3D view, whether it's first or third person (what IS second person anyway? off topic, sorry) and there is a basic map overlay (draft view, like the map in the original DOOM), perhaps a radar in the corner similar to the one in Metal Gear Solid for PS1.
On the second screen:
Multiplayer mode would have the screen split into four.
- Three of the screens would show a map of your teammates.
- The remaining section would be used to show your stats and team scores.
Double-tapping on one of your teammates maps would enlarge it to full screen (keeping an overlay of your stats and team scores), allowing for more detail such as 2D icons to represent accurately the surroundings (crates, power-ups, players faces) because with 3 maps showing at once, they would have to represent items with colored blips in order to keep the maps un-cluttered enough to understand at a glance. Double-tapping again would return to normal view.
Also, simple voice commands could switch modes. Eg. "Map 1", "Map 2", "Return", "Zoom", "Unzoom" etc. to allow switching screens without having to worry about moving your hand to touch the screen when you're trying to strafe around a corner while rotating and shooting.
Single player mode:
The bottom screen would remove all stats from player's view on the top screen, show mission objectives still needing completion (marquee scrolling if too many to display), and could switch modes to the same view as a multiplayer layout. This would allow for trackers to be placed on people, or objects such as cars, walls, telephones, etc., then the screens would show a map surrounding the area of the tracker. Or, if it's a tracer on a phone, then the tracer's screen could scroll text to show dialog occuring conversations on the phone (bold text for deep voice, regular for regular voice, italic for high voice, blue for male, red for female, grey for indistinguishable, etc.), and the mini-screen could actually fuzz over when the reception gets bad (better that what other games do for phone conversations that are muffled or static, which has been to cut out words and leave only relevant information, such as
"... has been ... cut out words ... relevant information"
which really suchs.)
And then, if you double-tap the screen tracing a phone conversation, then you could actually hear the conversation through the speakers.
And if you encounter a pad requiring a password or anything of the sort (touch-tone phone, security keypad, remote control), then the bottom screen would show an image of whatever it is you're using and you would actually push the buttons you need to use.
Well, that's off the top of my head. I hope I was on topic enough, I don't think I strayed! :)
Hmmm... If anyone comes up with a game like that, I want royalties for the gameplay ideas! I'm not greedy, 5% of the net profit is plenty! lol, yeah right, some company is reading these forums and stealing ideas. Ha ha, I have to laugh.
#23581 - dagamer34 - Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:46 pm
I would love to do anything with the touch screen. How the heck, in general, would you program a touch screen? I mean, you have to track the input of what is being touched and what if some idiot wants to touch it in two places at once?
I'm not sure about the second screen or anything else, but using the touch screen would be my top priority.
Assuming anyone ever figures it out...
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#23585 - keldon - Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:04 pm
The touch screen deals with inputs in more than one place by giving an average in between position.
#23589 - Miked0801 - Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:39 pm
NDA? That's a no no :)
#23590 - mymateo - Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:54 pm
What's NDA stand for??
Yours thoroughly confused,
MyMateo
#23596 - dagamer34 - Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:12 am
| mymateo wrote: |
What's NDA stand for??
Yours thoroughly confused,
MyMateo |
It stands for Non-Disclosure Agreement. Basically, if you say anything that violates the NDA, kiss your career goodbye.
But I'm confused about what Miked0801. It's a little out of place. Heck, it's really out of place. I don't even know why he said it. :)
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#23600 - rapso - Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:00 am
@mymateo
the multiplayer idea sounds great. but the singleplayer part is just a luxury, but I wouldn't choose the DS just 'cause I'm able to read some text at an other screen.
I thought the whole day long about it.
I think it would be a great to play magician. On one screen you could see your 3d level and "target" some objekt, on the bottom touchscreen you could "draw" some kind of Signs that produce a spell that you cast on your target. The more accurate you draw it, the more power your spell will have.
An other nice part of a game could be, if you try to crack a save and you listen carefully to the "ticks" of it and by moving your finger over the touchpad, you turn the wheel (sorry I do not know the correct english word for this) of the save and you have to stop at a special "tick", this robbery would have a timelimit, of course.
ok, that's the touchpad, but what should we draw on the second screen (it's just 2d)
on a "Tron" like game, we could draw the top-down view, but that's the only think I can think of.
Maybe nintendo develops some kewl ideas.
greets
rapso
#23601 - rapso - Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:01 am
| dagamer34 wrote: |
| mymateo wrote: | What's NDA stand for??
Yours thoroughly confused,
MyMateo |
It stands for Non-Disclosure Agreement. Basically, if you say anything that violates the NDA, kiss your career goodbye.
But I'm confused about what Miked0801. It's a little out of place. Heck, it's really out of place. I don't even know why he said it. :) |
he just tries to say, that he would like to talk about his game-ideas, but he has signed an NDA.
greets
rapso
#23612 - notb4dinner - Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:53 am
I'd really like to see a good quality RTS, the touch screen would be such an intuitive interface for it. You could have one screen dedicated to a wide angle map with stats etc. and another with a more zoomed in 3d interface for individual/group unit control. A button could be used to switch the positions of the screens so the stylus can be used on both interfaces.
#23632 - tepples - Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:46 pm
| rapso wrote: |
| I think it would be a great to play magician. On one screen you could see your 3d level and "target" some objekt, on the bottom touchscreen you could "draw" some kind of Signs that produce a spell that you cast on your target. The more accurate you draw it, the more power your spell will have. |
Last time I checked, that was called "Black & White".
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#23637 - Miked0801 - Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:56 pm
lol - I actuallygot excited and bought Black and White for full price - whoa is me :)
I did have some fun though and got some laughs. I was teaching myself the rain spell. While learning, I cast it over a patch of forest a few dozen times. 30 minutes later, I come back to see my Avatar monkey blissfully casting rain over the same patch of forest. I never did cure him of eating his own poo though :)
#23638 - rapso - Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:15 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| rapso wrote: | | I think it would be a great to play magician. On one screen you could see your 3d level and "target" some objekt, on the bottom touchscreen you could "draw" some kind of Signs that produce a spell that you cast on your target. The more accurate you draw it, the more power your spell will have. |
Last time I checked, that was called "Black & White". |
that's not a console game, I think there's no standard input device for consoles that could be used for somethink like this until the touchpad of the DS.
greets
rapso
#23639 - Abscissa - Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:56 pm
| rapso wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | rapso wrote: | | I think it would be a great to play magician. On one screen you could see your 3d level and "target" some objekt, on the bottom touchscreen you could "draw" some kind of Signs that produce a spell that you cast on your target. The more accurate you draw it, the more power your spell will have. |
Last time I checked, that was called "Black & White". |
that's not a console game, I think there's no standard input device for consoles that could be used for somethink like this until the touchpad of the DS.
greets
rapso |
Some games have used a D-Pad or A-Stick to move a cursor around onscreen - but it's a hideous thing to use.
#23651 - cappeca - Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:09 am
"what kind of games would you make for the DS"
Well, other than a nice remake of the old dual screen Game&Watch Pinball, I'd make a very intensive 2d RPG.
I'm giving some ideas away here, so listen up! :-)
For me the great deal about a dual screen system is that you have to double your attention. Most of the ideas for the second screen right now are maps, which is nice, but doesn't require a lot of interaction. My first obvious choice was some radar for the second screen, like the one in "Aliens". Nice, but boring after a while.
Now, you guys see how almost everybody, when fighting some special or strong enemy in regular games has to press start and go to an inventory screen and switch weapons? Or even to take a break from a heated fight, one just presses start, takes a breath and complains how his thumb is already aching. Well, what if you couldn't do that? You don't have to press start to access the inventory, because it would be already there in the second sceen. There's no time to think, either you switch weapons or die - pausing the game won't help you. Also, it would improve those boring sequences where you have to switch from one thing to another to go somewhere and all that inventory screen popping up gets really annoying. If you had a constantly open inventory screen, the game would be much faster. You wouldn't even be able to stop to talk to people, because as they would speak, some enemies could attack you right then.
Okay, nice, but a little bit of a pain to hit the screen with the stylus and shoot enemies with the controls in the same time. Well, then, let's make the weapons change automatically.
Have you guys ever played Mage Knight? It's a miniature game, where each miniature has a dial, with abilities that come and go as you turn the dial. What if you had some sort of dial in the second screen, where you could place some power ups as you find them along the game, but you'd have to wait for the dial to turn to activate that precise power up? Things like flight, invisibility, armor, all that changing as you play - you'd be flying over a lake, but some enemies took some time to kill and all of a sudden, OOPS, you lost your flight! Wow, great thing you placed your Scuba right next to your Wings on the dial. That would give you a very different kind of challenge in battle - what would be your strategy to place the power-ups on the dial, in order to gain the best performance? What about two dials, one for weapons, the other for spells/abillities?
And you could also leave some basic stuff for the stylus as well. That would give people a lot to work with.
That's what I'd do. I'd put my already developed plot around this "dial" idea, and make a great game.
#23656 - tepples - Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:30 am
| rapso wrote: |
| [black & white is] not a console game, I think there's no standard input device for consoles that could be used for somethink like this until the touchpad of the DS. |
Super NES Mouse?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#23660 - mymateo - Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:49 pm
Hmmm... tepples, I can see where you're trying to make an argument, but have you ever USED the snes mouse? It's about as accurate as putting a puzzle together by throwing the peices at a ten foot distance and hoping they fit together. At lest, mine was. :)
#23661 - SimonB - Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:27 pm
How about the N64 Mouse then? =)
Simon
#23662 - dagamer34 - Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:16 pm
| SimonB wrote: |
How about the N64 Mouse then? =)
Simon |
I didn't know the N64 had a mouse! Looks like it wasn't very popular.
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#23665 - mymateo - Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:43 am
SimonB
I've never heard of a mouse for the N64 either, but I'm curious. Can you post a URL to an image of one, or at least a site where I can find one?
#23671 - SimonB - Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:46 am
Google is your friend:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&q=%22n64+mouse%22&btnG=Search
Sure it was only(?) used with Mario artist: Paint Studio (64DD) but it exists =)
Simon
#23674 - tepples - Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:26 pm
| mymateo wrote: |
| have you ever USED the snes mouse? It's about as accurate as putting a puzzle together by throwing the peices at a ten foot distance and hoping they fit together. At lest, mine was. :) |
You got a bad unit. My mouse worked just fine when I used Mario Paint to title videos.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#23680 - Abscissa - Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:39 pm
Mine was fully usable, but certainly not as responsive as my PC's mouse. I think it may have had to do with the lack of a real desk surface, and unfamiliar acceleration settings.
#23932 - foog - Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:48 pm
strategy!! the ds has hardware good enough for porting warcraft 2! my favorite strategy game of all time. some fps's too, goldeneye remake????
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#23940 - dagamer34 - Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:22 am
More on the homebrew scene, I think SNES Advance should be eventually ported to the DS. There is plenty of workroom and great space for improvement, especially in the sound area where there currently is none.
Oh, and WE FINALLY HAVE ENOUGH BUTTONS!!! :)
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#23951 - tepples - Sun Jul 25, 2004 6:35 am
Yeah, but according to a leaked Nintendo memo, you're not allowed to stream audio, which means no emulating the output of the SNES DSP.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#23959 - ector - Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:20 pm
Considering that the thing has a microphone, I find it unlikely that there will be no audio streaming whatsoever available. However people might not be allowed to access the 8 or 16 or whatever PCM/ADPCM channels directly.
#23993 - dagamer34 - Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:40 am
| tepples wrote: |
| Yeah, but according to a leaked Nintendo memo, you're not allowed to stream audio, which means no emulating the output of the SNES DSP. |
How do they control the audio then? Through libraries?
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#24094 - foog - Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:56 pm
flight sims maybe???? should be powerful enough to pull off a decent flight simulator.
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#24103 - tepples - Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:05 am
| dagamer34 wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | according to a leaked Nintendo memo, you're not allowed to stream audio |
How do they control the audio then? Through libraries? |
Yes. It is an open secret (if not actually press-released) that the official Nintendo DS development kit comes with an audio library. (Even the GBA BIOS does, but almost nobody uses it.) I postulated that the library that comes with the official kit might allow the app to start and stop standard MIDI files and to control the volume and panning of encrypted ADPCM sound effects, but not much else.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#24138 - oxymen - Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:51 pm
well, A game that I think would work great on DS is a
game similar to the game "Heroes of might and magic".
You move your Hero around whith the tuch-screen and you have
info like resources, date, other heroes and so on, on the other screen.
This is a great game for multiplayer too
#24143 - foog - Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:59 pm
ohhh, Guantlet Dark Legacy..... ah hah! finally we will get a 3d zelda on the go!!! PLEASE NO PORTS N! ive played OCT 3x through already and i hate MM!
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