#26626 - chrisrothery - Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:54 pm
I've used touch screen before with pocket pc's, but they cup nicely in one hand and you use the other to just hold the pen (rarely to press other buttons etc.).
At E3 (from pics/videos) I noticed the units were 'held' for you as they were mounted, allowing you to hold the pen and press the d-pad/fire buttons.
How do you guys (especially those that have had their hands on them) think it's going to work, say with the d-pad to move, and the pen to fire (I think this is how metroid works?). Even worse is that I'm left handed & don't fancy aiming the stylus with my right hand!!!
Half the time with my iPaq I can't be bothered to get the stylus out & use a finger but even doing that, I can't imagine holding the unit in 2 hands and making effective use of the touch screen.
Any thoughts/observations/ideas ?
#26629 - dagamer34 - Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:11 pm
You can hold the unit with one hand safely as long as you get a good grip. It shouldn't be that hard.
And I don't think games have a stylus hand preference. Metroid Prime: Hunters will support using the stylus with either hand.
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#26630 - chrisrothery - Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:24 pm
But the dpad is on the left, so grip the unit tightly AND walk using your left hand, stab the screen in retarded fashion with your co-ordination-less right hand.
Especially when putting pressure on the screen with your right hand is going to affect your grip on your left cos of leverage.
Being hooked on project gotham 2, rather than give me super-strong wrists (cos of the analogue triggers) has left them weak, and I know this is super-premature to be worrying about, but I can't see it being comfortable to use in your hands (maybe a lap-strap add-on?). on a table or your lap, where the unit is supported from below, fine.
Just my thoughts, and I'd love to be proved wrong
(can't believe this is only my 6th post in the 17months I've been on here. I read most days. Must be even more shy than I thought!)
#26635 - DiscoStew - Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:09 pm
If you take a look on the right side, the way that the buttons are positioned looks very much like the D-Pad on the left. I don't know what the developers plan to do, but maybe they may make an option to switch controls so that the buttons on the right side would act like the D-Pad, and the D-Pad would do what the buttons were to do. It seems like an easy switch.
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#26637 - tepples - Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:26 pm
I guess that the DS probably won't provide for swapping the Control Pad with the trigger buttons for two reasons: - Nintendo has had such an opportunity twice before but hasn't used it. The Super NES had a Control Pad and four buttons, but most games didn't allow swapping the sides. The Virtual Boy had a completely symmetrical controller (Control Pad, Select, and Start on left; B, A, and C-Pad on right), but most games didn't allow swapping the sides there either. Likewise with Sony's systems.
- GBA games detect the Game Boy Player by displaying a magic cookie image on the screen and waiting a few frames for the system to register pressing all four directions at once momentarily. Swap the Control Pad with the trigger buttons, and then have people fooling games into thinking there's a Game Boy Player connected and crashing when it can't find the register for controller rumble.
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#26649 - DiscoStew - Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:42 pm
It all depends on the developer. If they wish to make their games left-handed friendly, they will. It's very simple to switch which input register does what. For instance, suppose you copy an instance of the input register into a variable. For right-handed people, you make no change to the variable, and use that variable in your code. For left-handed people, you would just swap the bits as follows...
Up<->X, Down<->B, Left<->Y, Right<->A
...That way, the buttons will act like the D-Pad. No messing with the hardware registers, just a simple switch of changeable data, plus a bit/byte set in SRAM telling the program that the user requests the left-handed option.
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#26712 - Mr. Ploppy - Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:43 am
Yes, DiscoStew is right. Including a "lefty" option is entirely up to the developer. How many developers decide to make is of this option is another story, as Tepples pointed out with his Virtual Boy analogy.
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#26735 - ScottLininger - Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:28 pm
My understanding of the 3D metroid game is that it ONLY uses the pen for movement/firing control. The pen's position on the touchscreen determines movement (up for forward, left and right for rotate) and you "tap" the pen for fire.
Got this from some Portable Gaming magazine or another.
Anyway, I think your comments about stability and left/right handedness are well said. It's a totally unique and different game interface, so it will take a while for "standards" to evolve.
Just think about the early days of first-person shooters: developers tried all kinds of crazy mouse/keyboard layouts and combinations. Nowadays it's settled down to the point where the "default" controls are very similar across games, while still allowing the ability to customize.
-Scott
#26737 - DiscoStew - Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:19 pm
| ScottLininger wrote: |
| My understanding of the 3D metroid game is that it ONLY uses the pen for movement/firing control. |
That was how it was at E3 when they demo-ed the Metroid game, but if I remember correctly from the feedback given about using the pen in that manner, they had decided to make an alternate control scheme. What that scheme is, I don't know. There was a recent picture of Metroid Prime Hunters: First Hunt, a demo being included in the DS package, which shows the action on the top screen, and the map and such on the bottom screen that the touchscreen is on. Whether this is just some Photoshop image altering, or the actual way this game is displayed, I don't know that either. For an action game like this, I hope the pen is used, but not in such a stressful fashion. I know I don't want to scratch my screen. =P
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#26785 - originalself - Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:31 am
the most recent ignds mailbag confirmed the decision to change the screen with the action on it. How that effects controls i don't know.
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#26792 - Abscissa - Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:15 am
| DiscoStew wrote: |
| I don't know what the developers plan to do, but maybe they may make an option to switch controls so that the buttons on the right side would act like the D-Pad, and the D-Pad would do what the buttons were to do. |
I thought I saw something in the E3 reports that said they were doing that. (Or maybe that was just their own speculation...)
#26793 - TwinD - Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:20 am
The alternate control scheme was always planned. Nintendo reps said as much at E3. The touch screen control scheme was more for showing off the system capabilities then for everyday use.
#26884 - Elekin - Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:38 am
The pen has many problems IMO
-Grip on DS is limited to one hand
Uncomfortable to hold for long periods of gaming
Higher risk of dropping DS
-Pens are uncomfortable to use for long periods of gaming
-Cant access abxy buttons or shoulder buttons
-Difficult for left handers to use D-Pad
the pen should be replaced with either:
-a shortened version that straps to your thumb
-a pointed thimble that is placed on your thumb
this would solve all of the problems, however lefties would still be in the same situation as they have been in the past, but not as severe as using the pen
#26901 - ScottLininger - Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:59 pm
Isn't the bottom screen a touch pad as well? If so, I think most games would be designed to work without the stylus.
Seems like a "thumb thimble" wouldn't be necessary for simple "select the button" kinds of interfaces. But it's a cool idea. Maybe a third party accessory will be developed...
-Scott
#26902 - SmileyDude - Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:21 pm
[quote="tepples"GBA games detect the Game Boy Player by displaying a magic cookie image on the screen and waiting a few frames for the system to register pressing all four directions at once momentarily.[/quote]
This is such a kludge, in my opinion. Nintendo could've went with a method similar to the Super GameBoy, but instead, used the video display and buttons as a way to enable the rumble. I'm sure it saved them a few bucks on the design of the GBP, but they could've made it much nicer.
On the other hand, I would really like to see exactly how they interfaced the display portion of the GBA chip to the GCN.
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#26913 - WillyWonka - Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:20 pm
This would suck. Has anyone here ever played with the Lynx? You could flip the system around and play it in the other direction if you wanted. Being left handed I tried it.... ONCE. I write with my left hand and I control the D-Pad on all computer game systems with my left hand. I do not want to switch with the DS and suddenly become crappy at controlling characters.
#26921 - sgeos - Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:28 am
I do not thing that DS should require to player to use the pen and the control pad/buttons at the same time. One or the other. Ideally, let the player choose.
-Brendan
#29358 - sp - Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:14 am
Elekin said
| Quote: |
the pen should be replaced with either:
-a shortened version that straps to your thumb
-a pointed thimble that is placed on your thumb
|
Well, I was just reading
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/computing/20041118-0957-techtest-nintendods.html
| Quote: |
This control scheme was nearly impossible with the toothpick-sized stylus, but it was very intuitive with the included wrist strap.
The end of the strap has a rounded plastic nub that you tighten around the tip of your thumb. It keeps the screen from getting smudged by your fingers and is much easier to use in tandem with the DS' 10 buttons.
|
#29423 - peebrain - Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:51 pm
| DiscoStew wrote: |
| If you take a look on the right side, the way that the buttons are positioned looks very much like the D-Pad on the left. I don't know what the developers plan to do, but maybe they may make an option to switch controls so that the buttons on the right side would act like the D-Pad, and the D-Pad would do what the buttons were to do. It seems like an easy switch. |
This is true. I played a demo of Metroid at EB. Obviously it's up to the developer, but Metroid specifically allows both.
You don't use the pen, you hold it with both hands and smudge your thumb all over the screen. I hear they are including a thumb attatchment so you don't smudge stuff.
Metroid didn't have any option for it, it just had the D-Pad for strafing-forward-back, and the buttons on the right for the same purpose. The touch screen acted like a joystick, and controlled where you looked. I think the fire button was the trigger, but I don't remember.
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#29469 - Abscissa - Sat Nov 20, 2004 8:02 pm
| sp wrote: |
| Quote: |
This control scheme was nearly impossible with the toothpick-sized stylus, but it was very intuitive with the included wrist strap.
The end of the strap has a rounded plastic nub that you tighten around the tip of your thumb. It keeps the screen from getting smudged by your fingers and is much easier to use in tandem with the DS' 10 buttons.
|
|
Hmm, that quote's referring to Metroid Hunters. I've tried that game at the store and have to disagree with what that guy says about using the stylus. I thought it was very intuitive with the stylus. Although I can see how the strap would be *more* intuitive (but it wasn't there to try though).