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DS development > Will Nintendo allow another Phantasy Star style backdoor?

#27051 - MumblyJoe - Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:13 am

Just thinking. The main way people have been able to play pirate games for the GC has been through a backdoor in the Phantasy Star Online games that virtually uses your network to get game data from an iso on your computer rather than from it's built in drive. I have seen this in action and it's... less that satisfactory for alot of games.

Where does the DS come into this? Well, we know it has wireless multiboot (which is great for us because it means a great way to play with development for the console until flash cards or an alternative becomes availiable). What I am thinking is that it won't be long before somebody writes something that multiboot's from a home wireless network and allows you to play roms on your DS (assuming roms can be ripped, which is fairly certain) as long as you are withing range, with it doing what the cube does with Phantasy Star and getting data chunks from the network instead of from a cart.

The other option, as far as I can see, is somebody finding a backdoor in a DS game that allows people to send thier own compiled code or roms or whatever to the DS like with Phantasy Star Online.

As far as I know about the system, something like this seems to be a virtual certainty (every system seems to get pirated or hacked in one way or another), and the real question is: will Nintendo leave openings for this to happen or are they going to use encryption or some other method of stopping this from happening. Of course, I would like to be able to get my code to run on a DS, but it would be a shame for Nintendo if it was possible, due to all the piracy options it opens up.

Anyway, what do you think? Possibility or Probability? Would you sacrifice your ability to run your own code on the DS if it meant real development companies won't be ripped off? Personally I think I will be too busy playing it to develop for it anyway but yeah...
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#27060 - DiscoStew - Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:09 am

Perhaps the question is not "Will they?", but "Why would they?" In saying, "Why would Nintendo allow another Phantasy Star style backdoor?" The answer? They don't want to. It was not meant to be there in the first place. It just so happened that Sega, the authors of the game, did not completely check their own code for this fault, and some person, or persons, with lots of knowledge in hacking or of the such found it, and exploited it. Besides, I would imagine that many people try to exploit these backdoors in any way they can, such as in Microsoft's software.

In conclusion, if one is found, then it is found, and can be used. Developers do not try to make backdoors in their software, it just so happens that they may end up making one not to their knowledge. I personally would like to run code through the DS's wireless multiboot system, but it all depends if that option ever becomes available, or exploited.
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#27067 - PhoenixSoft - Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:00 am

I doubt Nintendo would encrypt the wireless services - imagine how much processor time that would take up, encrypting and decrypting the signals, precious processor time that could be used for the actual gameplay.

#27068 - ampz - Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:31 am

Encryption does not take much CPU time (we are not exactly talking about high-bitrate data transfers..) Besides, they have a CPU dedicated to the audio and wifi.
I think most wifi chipsets have built in encryption support anyway.

#27088 - dagamer34 - Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:22 am

Streaming data wirelessly wouldn't be practical, at all. In fact, I don't think it will be a real problem. It's just like an handheld emulator on a PC. The game isn't really fun unless you play it on the go.

Besides, that would KILL the battery. However, such a backdoor would be perfect for homebrew developers. 4MB of space should be enough in the beginning, I don't think we will be using the full power of the 3D core in the DS anytime soon anyway.
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#27115 - PhoenixSoft - Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:15 am

We shouldn't care about the pirating possibilites of a backdoor, all that would matter is for us to be able to test our code easily on it. And the battey drain wouldn't matter; if we're streaming the game data, we can just leave the DS plugged into the AC adapter.

#27117 - tepples - Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:33 am

But isn't the whole point of developing for a console rather than for SDL+OpenGL the ability to demonstrate your work running on a console? On a handheld, you'll want to make your project look like a handheld game, which means you may need a laptop with a WiFi card within range to stream the game data and maintain the illusion.
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#27194 - zazery - Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:45 pm

Seems like Nintendo might have built a back door in themselves.

http://ds.ign.com/articles/554/554214p1.html

From my understanding you could possibly send a game over wireless. Once the DS specs become available it might be a matter of months before we get something working on the DS.

#27203 - Abscissa - Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:15 am

zazery wrote:
http://ds.ign.com/articles/554/554214p1.html


Hmm. The DS is starting to sound more and more like a "gaming PDA" of sorts. Or maybe like what the N-Gage was trying to be. I think I'm starting to understand how this thing counts as a "third-pillar".