#29538 - benjamin - Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:40 pm
I am reading a lot of handwringing about Mario64DS, just take a look at IGN, Gamespot, or the reviews on Metacritic.
Apparently the concensus is that it isn't the system seller everyone was hoping for and that its marred by poor control.
I'll see about that as soon as mine is done charging.
#29573 - Abscissa - Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:28 am
I think they're just complaing because it isn't their beloved PSP.
#29575 - Nessie - Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:19 am
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I agree that the control is pretty lacking in Mario 64 DS.
BTW, the manual says you can play games while the unit is charging.
#29576 - DekuTree64 - Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:32 am
Well I'm certainly happy with M64DS, I've been playing it all day long. The controls are indeed poorly designed though. If they just would have locked the 'control circle' thing that appears on the touch screen in place instead of having it drag around with your finger, it would have been perfect. The way it is, you run into the edge of the screen constantly and have to re-click to be able to run full speed again. Because of that, you have to switch over to the control pad for time-critical tasks or you're too slow from having to stop re-click, but the pad is harder to use and causes you to jump to your doom frequently. GRR.
And then Metroid needed a touch screen distance/rotation sensitivity setting cause you can't make a full turn in one touch screen's sliding distance the way it is. Also grr.
Even so, they're both still really fun and I can't stop playing. Yay, precious!
_________________
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The best optimization is to do nothing at all.
Therefore a fully optimized program doesn't exist.
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#29582 - rooter - Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:59 am
I love the controls. Haven't had a single problem using the touch screen and it's just as good as analog on Mario 64 IMO.
#29587 - abilyk - Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:47 am
| DekuTree64 wrote: |
| If they just would have locked the 'control circle' thing that appears on the touch screen in place instead of having it drag around with your finger, it would have been perfect. |
Bingo. Still, that said, it makes for a passable substitute for an analog stick.
#29593 - dagamer34 - Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:24 am
| DekuTree64 wrote: |
Well I'm certainly happy with M64DS, I've been playing it all day long. The controls are indeed poorly designed though. If they just would have locked the 'control circle' thing that appears on the touch screen in place instead of having it drag around with your finger, it would have been perfect. The way it is, you run into the edge of the screen constantly and have to re-click to be able to run full speed again. Because of that, you have to switch over to the control pad for time-critical tasks or you're too slow from having to stop re-click, but the pad is harder to use and causes you to jump to your doom frequently. GRR.
And then Metroid needed a touch screen distance/rotation sensitivity setting cause you can't make a full turn in one touch screen's sliding distance the way it is. Also grr.
Even so, they're both still really fun and I can't stop playing. Yay, precious! |
Metroid Prime is still only a demo. But you should submit that idea to NST so that they can implement it before the game ships (I read somewhere that it will be 5/08/05).
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#29677 - DiscoStew - Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:31 pm
| DekuTree64 wrote: |
| The way it is, you run into the edge of the screen constantly and have to re-click to be able to run full speed again |
Yeah, it does get pretty annoying having to re-adjust the circle so that you can continue running.
One thing I just thought up that could help with games like this would be to have an attachment that hooks onto the touch-screen, with the bottom-left area having a circular barrier, so that games like Mario64DS won't have the problem of having to re-adjust. With this, they'll never move out of the circle, preventing the movement circle on the touchscreen to be dragged around. This would also require another thumb attachment that is more precise, smaller, and at least as tall as the height of the touch-screen attachment.
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For games already made like Mario64DS, this would be a problem because it checks for a center point, and offsets from that point until another point is made, whereas this attachment would require games to have it's center point right in the middle of the circle. Juts a thought.
Although I have gotten somewhat familiar with it's current use of the touch-screen, I have done a whole lot better with just the D-Pad/Y-Button setup. Sure, it isn't nearly as accurate, but most of the time you are just moving forward. It just seems easier, for me anyways.
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#29688 - keldon - Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:58 pm
d-pad games were fine on the playstation ?!?
#29699 - Cupcakus - Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:14 am
I find the controls in M64 DS abismal... I have only used the touch pad for walking slowly past the sleeping plants, maybe that's my problem... but the D-pad for movement just sucks... if you didn't have to hold the run button down to run it would be light years better... you run FAR more than you walk slowly.
I find the whole thing terribly frustrating... An analog control on the DS would have helped leaps and bounds.
I'll try just using the touch screen for control and see if I like it better... but it's not looking good.
#29703 - DekuTree64 - Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:11 am
Actually I agree with N's decision on using a digital control pad instead of an analog pad. The reason being that it's shaped very similar to the A/B/X/Y set, so you can use left/right handed controls in games (very important when you have a touch screen). Surely developers will learn to better use the touch pad for analog control in the future, it really could be every bit as user-friendly as a control stick if done right.
And yes, making you hold Y to run is also very cruel because then you can't reach A to attack while running without stretching your pointer finger around to it.
I've also found it much more difficult to do a side-flip jump (one of my favorite moves) than it was in the original version, with the touch controls and even moreso with the pad, because it tends to make you run in a circle rather than turn straight around (also irritating because that circle you run in often happens to go right over the edge of the platform you're standing on...)
_________________
___________
The best optimization is to do nothing at all.
Therefore a fully optimized program doesn't exist.
-Deku
#29710 - satanicfreak2 - Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:12 am
I agree, if they had made the circle stay in place it would be a lot easier to move around. Its hard to get use to where to move your thumb since it changes whenever you go outside the cricle.
I think they should add a button that locks the circle in place. so if you like touching on the lower corner you can do that or the top corner instead.
I have gotten used to the controls but sometimes my thumb runs out of sceen and i get hit. I think that in future games they'll make the controls better.
#29720 - dagamer34 - Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:58 am
Actually, I just thought of something. If you have a digital representation of an analog stick on the screen(represented by a circle) located on the left(or right) hand part of the screen, you could have a virtual joystick. It's not that i have created a new idea for the DS, but simply expanded upon the one implemented in SM64DS.
It's not the actual touch screen that makes it hard to control, but the feeling that we are moving something in with a certain sensitivity.
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Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#29725 - keldon - Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:24 am
I just think it's a bad set up, full stop. It was a port and this was bound to happen because the control system was designed for something different.
The thumbpad thing is a really good idea because I always doubted the success of using it as a joypad because peoples thumbs are too stubby.
| Quote: |
| Actually, I just thought of something. If you have a digital representation of an analog stick on the screen(represented by a circle) located on the left(or right) hand part of the screen, you could have a virtual joystick. It's not that i have created a new idea for the DS, but simply expanded upon the one implemented in SM64DS. |
That's what I thought they would have done. But when I play one I can see for myself what all this 'bother' is about ... but I bet there'll be a big queue and a paying ticketting system for this one ;)
#29750 - dagamer34 - Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:57 pm
Perfect example of what I was thinking: http://media.ds.ign.com/media/682/682873/imgs_1.html
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#29761 - Abscissa - Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:17 pm
That looks like a good way to do it. Although I'd hate to see developers make a habit out of using the touchscreen as nothing more than a makeshift thumbstick.
#29762 - dagamer34 - Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:54 pm
| Abscissa wrote: |
That looks like a good way to do it. Although I'd hate to see developers make a habit out of using the touchscreen as nothing more than a makeshift thumbstick. |
True, it would just get repetitive. But for games that really need it, I can understand. If only the D-pad was pressure sensitive... :(
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#29794 - ScottLininger - Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:06 am
So I just got to the first boss in MarioDS and the game FROZE UP on me.
Sound got stuck on a single looping sample, the inputs stopped responding, and the video on both screens froze.
This IS NOT supposed to happen on a console game. It's frustrating and it worries me. Usually Nintendo's QA is solid. From a developer's perspective, it's probably some minor bug that future DS releases will recognize and avoid. From a player's perspective, it SUCKS. It's questionable whether I'll spend more of my time on a game that might freeze at any moment.
Has anyone else experienced this?
-Scott
#29796 - Abscissa - Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:21 am
| ScottLininger wrote: |
Sound got stuck on a single looping sample, the inputs stopped responding, and the video on both screens froze.
This IS NOT supposed to happen on a console game. |
Ouch, definately not. Brings me flashbacks of Enter the Matrix. I'm guessing they were willing to rush it through QA because they learned from the GameCube launch how important it is for them to have a real Mario game right from the start.
#29797 - Nessie - Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:36 am
I had a recent-ish Nintendo game that was crash mania. Metroid Prime (One) locked up on my Gamecube no less than 8 different times.
Too bad to hear that Mario might also have issues.
#29798 - tepples - Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:47 am
Now I'm beginning to see why Nintendo dropped "of Quality" from the "Official Nintendo Seal".
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#29809 - Abscissa - Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:00 am
| Nessie wrote: |
| I had a recent-ish Nintendo game that was crash mania. Metroid Prime (One) locked up on my Gamecube no less than 8 different times. |
A lot of people have noticed that too. The rumors are that most of the Metroid Prime crashes are due to doors opening before the room behind it is done loading. I just found that intereting.
#29811 - SimonB - Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:06 am
| ScottLininger wrote: |
So I just got to the first boss in MarioDS and the game FROZE UP on me.
-snip-
Has anyone else experienced this?
-Scott |
Yes, the same thing happend to me. After turning off and then turning on the DS again it couldnt see the DS game that was in the DS. I removed it and put it back in and then it worked fine...so maybe the DS game just had a bad connection...annoying none the less
Simon
#29822 - Nessie - Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:54 pm
| Abscissa wrote: |
| A lot of people have noticed that too. The rumors are that most of the Metroid Prime crashes are due to doors opening before the room behind it is done loading. I just found that intereting. |
There was maybe one door related crash, all of the other ones were elevator lock-ups.
Let me tell you, it really made me super tense about playing that game. It was always a case of, if you do anything that needs to be saved or would be a hassle to redo, find a save point (even if out of the way) before taking an elevator. That's just bad stuff.
Anyway, as you suggest, I'm pretty sure it has to do with dynamic background loading of new areas. Possibly a memory fragmentation issue due to a purely software bug.
On the other hand, not everyone had the problem - I've heard some very skeptical people saying us 'crashers' were exaggerating the problem because they never had a single crash. So maybe there was a hardware or media related component to the crashing as well...
Fortunately, Metroid Prime 2 has been rock solid thus far for me.
#29831 - SimonB - Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:57 pm
| ScottLininger wrote: |
So I just got to the first boss in MarioDS and the game FROZE UP on me.
-snio-
Has anyone else experienced this?
-Scott |
Happend to me AGAIN today. Was running after that goomba boss (same as you Scott?)...
Very annoying...
And has anyone else experienced problems when playing with the sound turned down low? One of my speakers seems to fuck up quite often when the volume is low...
Simon
#29851 - Mr. Ploppy - Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:49 am
I've been quite happy with Mario64 so far, controls are passable and no lockups. I just wanted to mention that the Metroid Prime elevator crashes seem to be related to button pressing. If I mess around with the controler in an elevator it often crashes, but if I leave the buttons alone, no problems at all.
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#30022 - DynamicStability - Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:01 pm
With the default control mode (using the dpad) it is hard to keep running, that is what the touch mode is for. With the touchmode it operates as any analog stick would...just slightly harder to hold.
If you haven't already tried touch mode, i suggest you do, though i am completely happy with the standard mode. Controlling with the dpad is perfect for me. Doing side flips is sometimes hard, but it was the same with the n64. I just did 15 perfect sideflips in a row with the dpad.
For attacking while running holding Y use the the other part of your thumb. see you hold Y and your thumb is centered over B, but you just rotate it slightly and its pressing A now...so you can actually press them all at the same time, or one after the other very easily. Everygame has a slight control learning curve...and the number of moves these acrobats can do increases it. Just give it some time. I have no complaints on the controls.
My mario has never locked up and i have played it for a good 35+ hours.
Peace
#30044 - ScottLininger - Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:00 pm
| SimonB wrote: |
| Happend to me AGAIN today. Was running after that goomba boss (same as you Scott?)... |
Yes... Though I played it again last night and the problem didn't occur that time. I was able to beat the goomba dude no problem.
So who knows? I wonder if Nintendo will give back our money? It's funny, since I've never hard a problem with a Nintendo product I've never thought about it.
-Scott
#30452 - DiscoStew - Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:29 am
| ScottLininger wrote: |
So I just got to the first boss in MarioDS and the game FROZE UP on me.
-snio-
Has anyone else experienced this?
-Scott |
| SimonB wrote: |
| Happend to me AGAIN today. Was running after that goomba boss (same as you Scott?)... |
I guess I wasn't the only person who had problems with it, but I've never had anything that bad. If you've read about my problem before, the audio (reverb) somehow wasn't turning off when it should, but since that post, I've had no problems.
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#30550 - Dib - Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:24 am
The DS speakers do distort audio when used at lower volumes. It does it to PocketNES and GBA games as well (I posted a comment in the official PocketNES forums when I first noticed it while playing The Legend of Zelda). Evidently all DS systems do this, and it wasn't just mine or my imagination afterall.
Regarding the controls for Mario 64 DS, I have been making the argument since I got the DS that the touchscreen is an improvement over the old N64 joystick.
At this writing, I have 135 stars. Therefore I have already navigated the most difficult parts of the game, including beating Bowser all three times. From jumping across platforms on the Rainbow Ride, to speeding down the ice and Princess' slides, I've had better success with the touchscreen than I ever did with the joystick.
The virtual joystick is remarkably responsive and very natural, despite what anybody says. I think the complaints against it can be explained by taking a few simple things into consideration:
All the reviews of Mario 64 DS were rushed in order to get them published as soon as possible, and I would safely bet that not a single reviewer had played the game for very long before jotting their comments down. Therefore they never had the opportunity to adjust their mentality to a non joystick control scheme.
Obviously any new method of control takes a bit of getting used to. Mario 64 DS is going to be the very first game for most people using this new touchscreen method, and I don't think they're differentiating their difficulty in getting used to these new controls from the specific game.
Any gamer who is familiar with joystick controls is going to have a tendency to approach the virtual joystick as if it were one, when it's quite obviously not. When you use a joystick you have to maintain pressure or it snaps back into center position. Not so with the virtual joystick, where you can rest your thumb comfortably and maintain that velocity. I believe this accounts for people who complain of constantly hitting the edges of the screen.
I did the same when I first picked it up, but by modifying my way of thinking and concentrating on the fact that when my character is moving at the desired velocity I don't have to continue moving my finger, I became used to it within the first few levels. That made it much easier during the later levels, and now I can't imagine playing Mario 64 any other way.
Anybody who fails to become accustomed to the thumb stylus is going to miss out on the best controls for Mario 64, which is a problem that will only get worse as consecutive games are released to the DS.
#30553 - abilyk - Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:45 am
| Dib wrote: |
| The DS speakers do distort audio when used at lower volumes. It does it to PocketNES and GBA games as well (I posted a comment in the official PocketNES forums when I first noticed it while playing The Legend of Zelda). Evidently all DS systems do this, and it wasn't just mine or my imagination afterall. |
It's not just the speakers, it's the DS in general. Even when using headphones, a low volume setting causes distortion. I was worried that it might be only my unit, but thankfully (I guess?) it's not. I've found that changing the game's sound setting to headphones (a feature that at least Nintendo tends to offer on their own games) will alleviate the problem.
#30567 - DiscoStew - Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:27 am
| Dib wrote: |
| The DS speakers do distort audio when used at lower volumes |
Not exactly what I was talking about, but still. The problem I had was when the use of the reverb effect did not get turned off when it should have, resulting in the continued gameplay to have audio reverb when it shouldn't. I have yet to have that problem again to try out a simple solution of setting the DS into sleep mode and waking it up again to fix the problem (if it works).
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#30743 - Dib - Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:07 am
It might have just been a fluke. If it's not a reproducible error, then there's nothing to be concerned about.
#30761 - DiscoStew - Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:57 am
It came up twice in one day, before I thought up the fix I said in the last post. However, that incident happened only twice the day after I got it. It's been good to me ever since.
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