#30122 - imbrettjackson - Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:32 pm
The 4 mandatory firmware updates. Did I leave anything out?
http://www.themodgods.com
#30123 - Roamin - Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:04 pm
I would definitely like the following changes:
-Enable health advisor on or off , this way everyone is happy, Nintendo , health care , and us.
-Clock display Analog or Digital selector.
-Easy calendar cycle functions, instead of going in the settings to see what day of the week Xmas falls on this year.
-And also all the wireless changes mentionned are all what i expected the machine to do.
A question remains. How flashable is the bios? If it's not embemmed rom in the cpu , i'm sure it's still rom , and not flashable. So any updates would cost us..? Anyone has a slight idea about this? With all the pictures of opened DSes , did anyone locate the bios chip?
Finally , if an online petition was to start , where you would enter you DS serial number and all for those changes to happen , i would definitely sign it.
Roamin
#30124 - tepples - Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:34 pm
| Roamin wrote: |
I would definitely like the following changes:
-Enable health advisor on or off , this way everyone is happy, Nintendo , health care , and us. |
And then Nintendo gets sued when somebody with epilepsy gets a used DS for Christmas.
| Quote: |
| A question remains. How flashable is the bios? If it's not embemmed rom in the cpu , i'm sure it's still rom , and not flashable. So any updates would cost us..? Anyone has a slight idea about this? With all the pictures of opened DSes , did anyone locate the bios chip? |
On the GBA it's embedded in the ARM7 CPU. (The other chip is EWRAM.)
_________________
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-- Who?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#30133 - ravuya - Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:27 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| Roamin wrote: | I would definitely like the following changes:
-Enable health advisor on or off , this way everyone is happy, Nintendo , health care , and us. |
And then Nintendo gets sued when somebody with epilepsy gets a used DS for Christmas. |
I'm pretty sure that you can't sue the OEM for receiving a modified product.
_________________
Rav (Win/Mac/Linux games for free)
#30144 - mymateo - Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:53 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| And then Nintendo gets sued when somebody with epilepsy gets a used DS for Christmas. |
Except for the fact that the DS is the ONLY handheld I have ever seen with a persistant epilepsy warning, and there's nothing special about the DS that makes it more or less dangerous to its users. So it's true some people might get upset, but that's why Nintendo includes warnings in all their systems and all their games, and label them in some fashion to "Read me before playing!".
I personally think the warning is redundant, but I would be happy if it just stayed up there for the duration of the DS logo and DIDN'T require touching the screen every time. Wouldn't everyone be happy then?
#30160 - Nessie - Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:37 am
All new Nintendo GC games I've recently played (Metroid Prime 2, Paper Mario 2, for example) display the same thing when the game first boots so it seems to be part of their general policy these days.
#30186 - ampz - Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:24 am
| tepples wrote: |
| Roamin wrote: | I would definitely like the following changes:
-Enable health advisor on or off , this way everyone is happy, Nintendo , health care , and us. |
And then Nintendo gets sued when somebody with epilepsy gets a used DS for Christmas.
|
Perhaps the european version will not have this mandatory health warning. They would not get sued in Europe.
#30188 - mymateo - Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:57 am
From what I understand, the DS is non region locked, and the fact you can choose from 6 languages means that it's (most likely) going to be the same version sold the world over.
So THAT means that (most likely) every DS on earth with have that warning, unless Nintendo decides "Nah, let's not bother people anymore". Otherwise I predict no changes.
#30215 - dagamer34 - Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:20 pm
I think there should also be an option as to how long you have to hold the DS power button before it shuts off. One little quick tap can shut the unit down if you are not careful.
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#30224 - merlinds - Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:09 pm
Wouldn't the DS detection -which they skimped on- that would alert you to other DSs in the area kill your battery life? As you would have to have the wifi or nifi constantly on.
#30227 - ampz - Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:18 pm
| merlinds wrote: |
| Wouldn't the DS detection -which they skimped on- that would alert you to other DSs in the area kill your battery life? As you would have to have the wifi or nifi constantly on. |
Nah, the DS detection only draws extra power when your DS is in power-save mode. I don't see any reason to put the DS in power-save mode instead of shutting it off completely unless you wish to be able to detect neraby DS systems.
The DS detection is most likely off when playing a GBA or DS game (unless the game specifically support it).
So, if you don't want to drain your battery: Don't use the power-save mode instead of powering off the DS.
#30228 - ampz - Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:22 pm
| mymateo wrote: |
From what I understand, the DS is non region locked, and the fact you can choose from 6 languages means that it's (most likely) going to be the same version sold the world over.
So THAT means that (most likely) every DS on earth with have that warning, unless Nintendo decides "Nah, let's not bother people anymore". Otherwise I predict no changes. |
The GBA is not region locked, but there are different revisions for different regions anyway, right?
GBA games ARE region locked (in the sense that a EU game is not compatible with a US game for multiplayer purposes)
Nintendo and the associated game development companies make very strange decisions...
#30229 - merlinds - Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:30 pm
| ampz wrote: |
Nah, the DS detection only draws extra power when your DS is in power-save mode. I don't see any reason to put the DS in power-save mode instead of shutting it off completely unless you wish to be able to detect neraby DS systems.
The DS detection is most likely off when playing a GBA or DS game (unless the game specifically support it).
So, if you don't want to drain your battery: Don't use the power-save mode instead of powering off the DS. |
My understanding is that there is no DS detection at the moment and that they didn't implement it because they didn't have time.
A detection system - to be useful- would have to alert you when you are playing a game as well as in sleep mode. But to do this would mean that it would have to be transmitting all the time - except when turned off. This would consume a lot of power.
A detection system that was only active in sleep mode would be pretty useless. Firstly you have to think, how many people with NDS are out there? Then how many within 100 feet of me? Then how many also with their NDS asleep? Then of how many of those people will even notice that their DS has detected another DS and how many of those will psychicly know whether to go to pico chat or try and start a multiplayer game.
#30242 - tepples - Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:46 pm
| ampz wrote: |
| GBA games ARE region locked (in the sense that a EU game is not compatible with a US game for multiplayer purposes) |
Quake III Arena also broke compatibility whenever it had a "protocol upgrade". Perhaps different language versions just have different protocols.
The only examples of single-player region locking I've seen have been in games that require the player to read and respond to Japanese text, such as a handful of scenes in Made in Wario (J).
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#30255 - keldon - Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:52 pm
UK Mario Kart didn't work with the US Mario Kart because of changes they made in the game, adding extras and such for us.
#30264 - benjamin - Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:04 pm
| keldon wrote: |
| UK Mario Kart didn't work with the US Mario Kart because of changes they made in the game, adding extras and such for us. |
Well aren't you guys special :P
#30292 - mikeandbandit - Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:29 am
| merlinds wrote: |
| ampz wrote: |
Nah, the DS detection only draws extra power when your DS is in power-save mode. I don't see any reason to put the DS in power-save mode instead of shutting it off completely unless you wish to be able to detect neraby DS systems.
The DS detection is most likely off when playing a GBA or DS game (unless the game specifically support it).
So, if you don't want to drain your battery: Don't use the power-save mode instead of powering off the DS. |
My understanding is that there is no DS detection at the moment and that they didn't implement it because they didn't have time.
A detection system - to be useful- would have to alert you when you are playing a game as well as in sleep mode. But to do this would mean that it would have to be transmitting all the time - except when turned off. This would consume a lot of power.
A detection system that was only active in sleep mode would be pretty useless. Firstly you have to think, how many people with NDS are out there? Then how many within 100 feet of me? Then how many also with their NDS asleep? Then of how many of those people will even notice that their DS has detected another DS and how many of those will psychicly know whether to go to pico chat or try and start a multiplayer game. |
About 1 out of every 12 people in the us own a GBA which is a fairly large number when you think about it, especially if you were to go to a mall or a stadium, ride public transportation, or just walk in a general urban area.
Putting it in sleep mode would mean it would actively search using nintendo proprietary signal which takes up almost not battery life. It would in essence be similar to a cell phone, likely allowing the DS to goes days uf not a week at a time for a single charge in that mode. Remeber cell phones only get 3 hours talk time but can survive for several days in their "sleep mode"
using the DS to communicate with people you dont know would be great, kinda like an ice breaker thing. Think about ths, in future 1 in 10 people have a DS, say you get into a semi crowded subway car with 100 people, your DS starts going off because there 10 other DSs in the area, their Dss also go off, say only 3 open their's up, the 2 want to just use picto chat, and the other just want to play a game, The one has ridge racer but you dont, you can still play him anyway with the single cart mode, all without ever seeing any of these people's faces.
Thats why i am extremely disappointed about the lack of this feature, in fact i almost returned my DS just because of the lack of it.
#30299 - Roamin - Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:43 am
| Quote: |
keldon wrote:
UK Mario Kart didn't work with the US Mario Kart because of changes they made in the game, adding extras and such for us. |
Now you get to wait 4 months for the DS :)
When you use the Alarm function on the DS , and you put the DS in sleep mode , you suggest the DS lasts at least 24 hours in sleep mode, with "wake on alarm" mode on. Well i thought for sure pictochat was shipped out with "wake on wifi" so that , if i'm in pictochat , alone or with someone , our DSes constantly send out the "wake on wifi" signal , making your DS sound much like the alarm buzzer (which is loud enough) and have you join the conversation when unflipping the DS , turning the screens on. Your DS would sound everytime someone's in pictochat , and your in pictochat sleep mode, this is what you would want , if you left pictochat in sleep.. right? Then from pictochat , a menu to select which multiplayer game to play .. but since that is too much to ask for , just tell people to go in download game , and wait , and then the server just starts the game .. no big problem there. So , just a wake on wifi , in pictochat sleep would of been fun.
According to nintendo , the DS is in sleep mode when green LED flashes slow , emitting in wifi when flashing green fast. When the alarm turns on , and the DS is closed , the light goes solid green , but screens are still out until unfold the DS. I know if you go in sleep mode in pictochat , it says Resume communication ? when you return to pictochat. Haven't tried to go to sleep on someone's conversation, but what would happen then ? my DS would ring telling me someone's in pictochat? What would we do then?
#30302 - mikeandbandit - Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:13 am
once the DS is closed and in sleep mode in the control panel type environment which both pictochat and donload play are a part of, all wifi/network activite ceases, so far the only games i have found which continue network activie while in sleep mode are mario and metriod demo
#30303 - Roamin - Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:30 am
In Auto play mode , if a DS cart is inserted , the annoying touch message is displayed, if no DS but a GBA cart is in , it loads GBA right away , no annoying message. ;)
#30313 - Dib - Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:35 am
As mentioned on that site, the health warning should be enemy #1 in the list of mods for the DS. It's tediously annoying to be there every time we turn the machine on; it's functionally useless because it doesn't so much inform as it directs stupid people to read the manual like they should anyway; and it's unnecessary for those of us who are in fine health.
I'm at a loss to understand why we can store our birthdate in the internal software, but can't set an option to remove that warning.
Personally I like the analog clock. If Nintendo implements a digital display, hopefully there's a configuration option to accompany this change.
I would like to see button configuration for the GBA compatibility. Selecting which screen display isn't good enough--we should be able to configure our buttons. For example, considering that they've rearranged the buttons to straight perpendicular angles, I prefer my thumb at a more vertical than horizontal angle. The Y should be B and the B should be A. Other people might prefer other settings, so between the XYBALR buttons we should be able to set them any way we choose. I'm not certain if that can be done strictly with a firmware update (can the DS firmware even be updated?) but it's definitely something the GBA compatibility needs.
A touchscreen-driven RGB selector for setting the so-called dashboard color scheme would be a nice touch, instead of selecting from a limited number of prearranged settings. It's not like it should be any different since it most likely calculates the gradient anyway and there's nothing unique to any of them.
If Pictochat can be modified through such an update, a simple paint tool to fill in areas wouldn't hurt.
That's about all I have off the top of my head at the moment.
#30381 - Joat - Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:47 pm
First off: It's pretty unlikely that the firmware will be reflashable, and while a lot of the 'mandatory' requriments sound nice, some aren't particularly realistic (e.g. the persistant dashboard with LED blinking, thats simply not possible unless the hardware and all games were designed for it to begin with, and I imagine the LEDs are driven by some fixed-function hardware). Having said that, I sure hope nintendo make the stupid-ass health warning on a timeout or disable-able in the DS 1.01 if they change nothing else.
Second: As far as searching for a game in standby mode, the DS doesn't last very long in standby mode (at least whatever mode SM64DS uses when the lid is closed), certainly well under a day, and that is with the wireless DISABLED. Actively sending a hello signal would require at least the wireless unit to be drawing power, and if the wifi module isn't particularly smart, you'd also have to power up the CPU occasionally to craft such messages.
I haven't tested the standby duration in any particularly scientific manner: but I had a freshly charged DS, played mario for maybe half an hour, closed the lid, and the battery was dead the next afternoon when I went to play some more (had forgotten I had left it in standby).
_________________
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http://www.bottledlight.com
#30382 - dagamer34 - Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:59 pm
| Joat wrote: |
I haven't tested the standby duration in any particularly scientific manner: but I had a freshly charged DS, played mario for maybe half an hour, closed the lid, and the battery was dead the next afternoon when I went to play some more (had forgotten I had left it in standby). |
Well, that doesn't give us much information to go by. If the DS lasts 15+ hours in standby mode (probably more), then I would consider that pretty good since I can't think of a reason why you would need to leave it in sleep mode for so long. Anyway, there really isn't much we can do about it right now...
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#30554 - merlinds - Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:51 am
If the firmware is updateable which it should be considering all the things that are yet to be implemented - VOIP, Online play, DS detection etc... then it will have to either be a return to Nintendo job or more likely a WIFI over the air update.
I wonder if holding down certain button combinations can bring up any sort of debug menu a la ipod?
#30557 - siul1979 - Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:03 am
| merlinds wrote: |
| I wonder if holding down certain button combinations can bring up any sort of debug menu a la ipod? |
Only one way to find that out, lol!
Sooo many possible combinations I would reckon?
#30558 - Abscissa - Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:12 am
| siul1979 wrote: |
| merlinds wrote: | | I wonder if holding down certain button combinations can bring up any sort of debug menu a la ipod? |
Only one way to find that out, lol!
Sooo many possible combinations I would reckon? |
2304, if I'm doing my math right.
Yea, I'm bored ;)
#30560 - dagamer34 - Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:36 am
It would be a good idea for the DS to have firmware updates, however likely that may be. However, act it's current state, the DS has only been out for a week and 3 days and yet we are already complaining about it.
All good things come in due time...
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#30565 - sgeos - Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:18 am
| merlinds wrote: |
| I wonder if holding down certain button combinations can bring up any sort of debug menu a la ipod? |
Highly unlikely. I suspect that if the system has firmware system menus, you can only get at them from under the hood. Arcade mainboards use dip switches.
-Brendan
#30582 - mymateo - Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:28 am
| Abscissa wrote: |
| 2304, if I'm doing my math right. |
Let's see... A, B, X, Y, L, R, Select, Start, Power, Touch, and Microphone (Yell into while turning on?) would be 11 bits, so I get a maximum possible combination of 2047... (Yes, 11 bits = 2048 combinations, but I'm going to assume pressing nothing is not going to do it...) I'm curious where you got the extras from?
Oops, let me re-count that... You can't push all directions at once, only one direction on each axis, so I guess 9 bits... 511... Gee, that's a LOT less...
#30583 - Boeboe - Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:33 am
| mymateo wrote: |
| and Microphone (Yell into while turning on?) |
heh, that made me laugh :p. Just try to imagine a team of developers working 24/7 with this thing
#30585 - bcforn64 - Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:24 am
| mymateo wrote: |
| Abscissa wrote: | | 2304, if I'm doing my math right. |
Let's see... A, B, X, Y, L, R, Select, Start, Power, Touch, and Microphone (Yell into while turning on?) would be 11 bits, so I get a maximum possible combination of 2047... (Yes, 11 bits = 2048 combinations, but I'm going to assume pressing nothing is not going to do it...) I'm curious where you got the extras from?
Oops, let me re-count that... You can't push all directions at once, only one direction on each axis, so I guess 9 bits... 511... Gee, that's a LOT less... |
The time I'm spending figuring this out could be used better on anything else..... :-) but ok, what the hell.
First off forget the touch screen, and microphone. I honestly do not see Nintentendo reps testing some kind of uber secret Firmware screen by screaming into the mic. Nor do I see the touch screen being viable because of all the multiple places to touch on the screen. Power button is also out of the question....possible,yes...but highly unlikely unless if used as a combination on boot up.
So what's left:
A ,B, X, Y, Start, Select, L Trigger, R TRigger, and 8 directional pad.
So 8 logical buttons, all based on boolean base 2, and an directional pad base 8.
So : 2^8 = 256 * 8^1 = 2048 - 1 that mymateo stated for no combination = 2047.
Same exact number, just more of a waste of time.
For the hell of it, 2048 * 2^1 = 4096 minus mymateo's 1 for 4095. Why not minus two? Just incase if simply holding power is sufficent.
(Which by the way doesn't work)
It's too late, I have insomnia. Good night.
Update: Whoops, damn I suck at math :-)
it would be base 9 for 8 logical directions, and one more for nothing pressed at all
2^8 = 256 * 9^1 = ....2304 Fuck you, Abscissa!
minus one for mymateo's no combination = 2303 HA, our work did contribute to something...useless.
#30627 - imbrettjackson - Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:07 pm
Funny thing is - it actually COULD be a voice lock...
Also, there's the duration variable. Hold a button down for ten seconds kind of thing which highly raises the number of possibilities. For the GBA you hold start and select when you boot to enter "programmer mode."
#30639 - siul1979 - Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:19 am
| imbrettjackson wrote: |
Funny thing is - it actually COULD be a voice lock...
Also, there's the duration variable. Hold a button down for ten seconds kind of thing which highly raises the number of possibilities. For the GBA you hold start and select when you boot to enter "programmer mode." |
Thats exactly why I think the number is huge. You have a variable of duration, and what if they decide to use a sequence of button presses during the start up time? who knows...
#30642 - sgeos - Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:44 am
| siul1979 wrote: |
| imbrettjackson wrote: | Funny thing is - it actually COULD be a voice lock...
Also, there's the duration variable. Hold a button down for ten seconds kind of thing which highly raises the number of possibilities. For the GBA you hold start and select when you boot to enter "programmer mode." |
Thats exactly why I think the number is huge. You have a variable of duration, and what if they decide to use a sequence of button presses during the start up time? who knows... |
Why bother when you can just throw a switch under the hood?
-Brendan
#31547 - netdroid9 - Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:53 am
Because it's easier just to do a button combo instead of opening it every time you need to make a firmware update (for example)
#31549 - Abscissa - Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:20 am
| bcforn64 wrote: |
it would be base 9 for 8 logical directions, and one more for nothing pressed at all
2^8 = 256 * 9^1 = ....2304 Fuck you, Abscissa!
minus one for mymateo's no combination = 2303 HA, our work did contribute to something...useless. |
hee hee :)
Like you, I did assume that power, touchscreen, and mic didn't count. But if you wanted to get really technical, what if the touchscreen not only did count, but required a specific part to be tapped? Or maybe even a gesture?...A gesture in a certain corner of the screen? Or a specific syllable or phrase in the mic? Or something like "Hold A while entering the sequence B, B, Up Left"? Or a combination of everything? Plus a Starbucks hotspot ping sensed on the WiFi...
I'm scared now...
;)
#31550 - Abscissa - Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:22 am
| netdroid9 wrote: |
| Because it's easier just to do a button combo instead of opening it every time you need to make a firmware update (for example) |
I think I could come up with a button combo that would be harder than opening the case ;)
#31551 - mymateo - Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:15 am
Crikey...
When you stop to think about it, IF there is a key combo of some kind and IF it used such variables, it would be imPOSSIBLE to go through all the possible combinations in your lifetime... your only hope would be dumb luck...
I've got half of that covered... anyone here lucky? :)
#31552 - ravuya - Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:15 am
I wonder if someone could crack their DS open, and wire in a PIC or something to do brute-force testing?
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#31556 - netdroid9 - Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:03 am
Actually, dump everything, get a physics simulator, create a simulation model and do a virtual brute force. While your at it, give everyone a copy of the simulation model and we can figure out how the NiFi protocol works, find an exploit of some sort to run code, or just use it as an emulator ;)
#31565 - tepples - Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:45 am
| netdroid9 wrote: |
| Actually, dump everything, get a physics simulator, create a simulation model and do a virtual brute force. |
Model would be too way big to store on a PC. Think of how big a mole is.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#31568 - netdroid9 - Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:25 am
Not really, it's dependant on what you use. I don't think anyone would use a model they couldn't take home and work on with a normal PC.
I think you were thinking of something else. A simulation model is generally based on something like a blueprint, with heaps of debug stuff if you use electronics (I think).
#31577 - Zlodo - Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:12 pm
What about the date, birthday date, favorite color, personal message, or username ? They could well play a part in unlocking some secret stuff in the bios, if there is any.
By the way, if your birthday date and the current date matches, the power up sound is played at a higher pitch.
#31581 - Dib - Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:45 pm
If there is a software unlocking mechanism, I sincerely doubt that it will involve any of that. Nintendo aren't going to have people bringing them in to receive firmware updates, nor are they going to ask home users to open their DS themselves and void the warranties. And I don't believe for a moment that they'll have people resetting their birthdates, dates, messages, etc. with cryptic codes.
If it exists, it will be a button combination and nothing more.
Touchscreen and microphone are doubtful. The microphone isn't going to magically work on it's own and would require code to interpret the command, so where would this be stored? The touchscreen would be too complicated for most people without something onscreen to actually touch. It's out of the question.
#31595 - mymateo - Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:32 pm
Spoilsport.