#33545 - Mantenna - Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:21 am
http://www.rsasecurity.com/node.asp?id=1211
bear with me because i have little to no idea what i'm talking about... i've just been following the homebrew/ni-fi developments as they come...
is this RSA encryption stuff what is preventing people from being able to easily work with the ni-fi/802.11b? or am i way off base in assuming that? all of this stuff has got me searching around for crap i don't even understand heh it's all very exciting.
there's some SDK thing to download? "developer solutions download server"? is this anything?
i apologize in advance if this has been covered before... and/or if it's entirely offbase and retarded.
#33546 - Darkain - Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:06 am
none of the wireless is encrypted. its the carts that are
the problem is being able to send personalized control and management frames to the DS, the ones that it is expecting, wich is a real pain on most hardware.
the encryption (or lack thereof) is mentioned in the 20+ page thread about nifi hacking. try reading that
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#33553 - ravuya - Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:10 am
Like TJ has said in other threads, I think the RCA ciphers are on the package for WPA/WEP wireless crap.
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#33554 - TJ - Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:25 am
That always seemed the most logical explanation.
If Nintendo really intends to use WiFi as viable option for DS owners to connect to the internet, they would have to include support for at least WEP, if not WPA as well. Otherwise there would be a lot of very pissed off DS owners when it came time to connect the DS to their wireless network.
The simplest answer is sometimes the best.
#33593 - ravuya - Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:55 pm
I think the users will be pissed off anyway -- a lot of the "for pay" networks like Starbucks, McDonalds and the like use a web-browser based authentication system. Most schools use either something like Nocat or a Windows-based application for authentication.
Mmm... do you smell that? It's the lack of standards. 802.11 was totally rushed out.
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#33597 - Abcd1234 - Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:27 pm
Why would they be pissed? I'd expect WEP support to be in there simply because it's a useful feature. ie, if a browser or some other tool came out for the DS that allowed it to connect to a local WLAN, I'd expect the wireless security features to be *optional*, not mandatory.
#33624 - ravuya - Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:47 am
| Abcd1234 wrote: |
| Why would they be pissed? I'd expect WEP support to be in there simply because it's a useful feature. ie, if a browser or some other tool came out for the DS that allowed it to connect to a local WLAN, I'd expect the wireless security features to be *optional*, not mandatory. |
Well, if the DS doesn't grok WEP/WPA it can't connect to secured networks (which almost all of them should be) and therefore the people who shelled out for a DS with the promise of wireless multiplayer using their router will be rather angry at Nintendo for not supporting theirs.
Keep in mind that some users don't have control over their wireless network's settings; I set my grandmother up with a WPA-secured wireless router and never gave her the credentials or information on how to access and modify it. Regardless, it doesn't make sense to drop your security and expose your other computers to packet-sniffing script kiddies just so you can play some DS games.
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#33640 - flipper - Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:48 am
| Quote: |
Well, if the DS doesn't grok WEP/WPA it can't connect to secured networks (which almost all of them should be) and therefore the people who shelled out for a DS with the promise of wireless multiplayer using their router will be rather angry at Nintendo for not supporting theirs.
|
Was this ever mentioned by Nintendo? As far as I knew, the DS was said to be INCOMPATIBLE with WiFi (official line, of course). It was only once people got them in their hands that it was found to be WiFi.
Even so, it is NOT full-spec WiFi, and many routers won't talk to it (Short Preamble).
#33642 - kerrle - Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:03 am
Nintendo never said that the DS was incompatible with WiFi - they just said that it'd be up to the individual developer to implement it - Nintendo didn't provide their own TCP/IP stack.
#33645 - sandymac - Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:23 am
| kerrle wrote: |
| [...] up to the individual developer to implement it - Nintendo didn't provide their own TCP/IP stack. |
Here are some stacks to start with: http://www.sics.se/~adam/uip/ and http://www.unusualresearch.com/tinytcp/tinytcp.htm
Five bucks the first one to run a webserver off their DS would make http://slashdot.org/
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#33646 - kerrle - Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:33 am
Yeah, that'd be right up their alley.
#33654 - TJ - Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:10 pm
| flipper wrote: |
Was this ever mentioned by Nintendo? As far as I knew, the DS was said to be INCOMPATIBLE with WiFi (official line, of course). It was only once people got them in their hands that it was found to be WiFi.
Even so, it is NOT full-spec WiFi, and many routers won't talk to it (Short Preamble). |
They stated at E3 that it was fully WiFi compatible...
#33669 - tepples - Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:28 pm
I think the TCP/IP stack of FreeBSD is BSD licensed...
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#33679 - sandymac - Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:07 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| I think the TCP/IP stack of FreeBSD is BSD licensed... |
Yea, but so are the two I mentioned are under BSD-style licenses too. Also I'd be surprised of FreeBSD's IP stack ran in under a few hundred bytes of memory.
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#33687 - ampz - Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:12 pm
| TJ wrote: |
| flipper wrote: |
Was this ever mentioned by Nintendo? As far as I knew, the DS was said to be INCOMPATIBLE with WiFi (official line, of course). It was only once people got them in their hands that it was found to be WiFi.
Even so, it is NOT full-spec WiFi, and many routers won't talk to it (Short Preamble). |
They stated at E3 that it was fully WiFi compatible... |
It probably is. Nintendo just set it to short preamble when talking Nintendo-specific-protocol to save on batteries.
There is probably nothing stopping other developers to set it to standard preamble when talking 802.11b + TCP/IP.
I imagine it can do more than 2Mbit/s as well, if the developer wishes to.
But for normal gameplay there would be little reason to... It would only decrease communication distance and increase battery drain.
While uIP is a nice stack (I have implemented it on a ARM7 based system before), I think lwIP would be more suited for the DS.
uIP can only handle one packet at a time, resulting in not-that-high performance. lwIP is a full-performance TCP/IP stack, but still compact enough for the DS.