#35329 - hsx - Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:25 am
I havent looked in to it much but ,can the Ds' wi-fi communications system be modifed or somthing to make game play on the Ds ferther than 90ft.I look a little and found stuff on cantennas at (www.cantenna.com)which modify wi-fi distance but I dont think a cantenna would work for the ds because of hardware complicatons.
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#35331 - Sebbo - Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:49 am
keep the DS's in line of sight and apparently u can pull 200ft. its been done
#35335 - TJ - Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:58 am
The DS is a standard WiFi device, you can add an external antenna jack and connect a WiFi directional antenna to it (like the cantenna) and increase it's range fairly easily.
But the problem then becomes keeping the antenna directed at the other DS, which makes using it a little ungainly.
#35336 - ravuya - Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:58 am
Well, apparently there's a small connector on the antenna on the board. If it's mini-BNC or something like that an adaptor should be obtainable to use BNC antennas like the Cantenna (with slight hardware modification).
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#35338 - Lynx - Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:14 am
I guess, you could always make the antenna clip onto a desk or something, and just have a long enough cable to plug it into the DS.
#35341 - Dib - Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:04 am
...which would defeat the purpose of it being wireless.
#35350 - hsx - Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:04 pm
So there is a way of modifing the gameplay distance.Would a antenna or cantenna drain the batteries on the Ds ?
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#35358 - Lynx - Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:01 pm
| Dib wrote: |
| ...which would defeat the purpose of it being wireless. |
How do you figure? So, having an antenna clipped to a desk (so that you can have a point to point connection with a friend, and still be able to move your DS around during play) is EQUAL to having a 300 ft cable running out your dorm room, down the hall, around the corner, etc? Doesn't sound like it would defeat the purpose to me. It doesn't sound Ideal to me either, but if you want to play over the standard 100 ft, you have to make sacrifices. (unless you use an amplifier)
Edit: Actually, it sounds like it might be a great idea if you can point it out a window toward your buddy that lives 5 buildings down. Or if you live in a house and can put the antenna on top of your house.
hsx: No, it wouldn't drain the batteries any different. You are not increasing its power output, just the way it transmitts the signal. The current design is transmitting the signal in all directions, where a directional puts all power output in the direction you point it in.
#35384 - hsx - Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:45 pm
Ok
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#35396 - Dib - Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:34 am
| Lynx wrote: |
| How do you figure? |
Handheld systems aren't designed around what you can do while playing it in your living room. That's how I figure, and Nintendo figures as well.
#35437 - Lynx - Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:41 pm
| Dib wrote: |
| Lynx wrote: | | How do you figure? |
Handheld systems aren't designed around what you can do while playing it in your living room. That's how I figure, and Nintendo figures as well. |
Uhh.. Ok.. since your comment was "...which would defeat the purpose of it being wireless."
You do understand that the REAL purpose of it being wireless is to be able to play multiplayer games, right? And prior to the DS, if you wanted to play multiplayer games, what did you have to do? Hundle around in a circule with a cable running from one unit to the other. So, adding a cable to give you the ability to play a multiplayer game beyone the 100' range does not defeat any purpose at all. It actually enhances the purpose, as the purpose is to play multiplayer games.
And, since your so kind to speak on Nintendo's behalf, if they didn't expect you to play multiplayer games, and be "stuck" to your living room, then why not 300' wireless? Why not satelite wireless? Or cellular?
Yes, I'm being retarded as the cost of implementing such technology would be costly and.. well.. down right stupid. But, the point of the topic is to extend the distance of multiplayer games, and adding an external directional antenna would give that ability.
Would most people do it? Probably not, but as I "EDIT"ed my previous post, I can see some really good reasons to do it.
#35447 - hsx - Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:17 pm
This topic can be sovled by nintendo making a wireless modem or some type of online playing system.Its rumored that nintendo will release a online hook up or something.
And If wireless modem or something is released by Nintendo it might be as expensive as a cell phone service.(Which is a good way to make money,in Nintendo's case.)
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#35449 - Angry_Monk - Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:33 pm
why would a wireless modem cost money, unless it would be a dial into a server type thing, then i understand, but otherwise if it is just a dial-the-other-guys-number type thing then all that would apply would be the telephone charges.
*idea*: how easy would it be to make a wi-fi to modem relay program for a computer. think about this: a program picks up the packets sent by the DS via the wifi card, then it sends those packets over a modem to another computer that would then transmit them over the wifi there. you could have more than one DS on each end too. sure its kind of pointless doing it via modem, but do we as of now have the know-how to do it (modem or internet)?
#35451 - NMcCoy - Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:08 pm
This is called tunneling and people have been working on it since the DS was released, if not before.
#35452 - this name - Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:33 pm
Is there such thing as an exteral amplifier that can amplify signals it receives at certain frequencies?
My idea would be something like this: let's say that you had a transmitter (or amplifier) that would receive all 2.4 GHz signals, convert them to a faster frquency (to reduce lag), send them to another transmitter that was about a mile away, and finally that receiving transmitter would convert the higher-frequency signals back into a compatible 2.4 GHz signal.
Here's a picture illustrating what I mean:
[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]
And I suppose if the transmitter were "smart" enough, it could be programmed to discriminate among which 2.4 GHz signals to transmit via headers or some other means.
#35453 - NMcCoy - Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:43 pm
Um... don't all electromagnetic waves travel at the same speed regardless of their frequency?
#35454 - this name - Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:50 pm
| NMcCoy wrote: |
| Um... don't all electromagnetic waves travel at the same speed regardless of their frequency? |
You can obviously carry more per inch with a higher frequency.
#35465 - Lynx - Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:14 am
Yes, there are amplifiers available for many frequency ranges. But, depending on the amplification and use, they may be illegal.. and if they interfere with other devices, will almost definatly be illegal.
#35940 - naikrovek - Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:27 am
| this name wrote: |
| NMcCoy wrote: | | Um... don't all electromagnetic waves travel at the same speed regardless of their frequency? |
You can obviously carry more per inch with a higher frequency. |
hee hee "more per inch". youre right but if i didn't know that ahead of time i would argue that sentence.
VLF transmissions send about 10 bytes/sec, because that's all they can send, and the higher VHF frequencies can send hundreds of megabytes/sec; this is what communications satellites use. all electromagnetic frequencies (light, radio, gamma, delta) travel at the same speed, yes.
imagine you're holding a pen, and that pen is writing to a strip of paper that is travelling at the speed of light. when you touch the pen to paper, a mark is made that moves at the speed of light towards the recipient. now imagine that the rate at which you can raise and lower the pen is restricted (this is the situation with VLF). the paper still moves at the speed of light, but you can only change the pen position once a second. at this rate it will take 8 seconds to send a single ASCII character.
now imagine you can move the pen up and down 1,000,000 times a second. now you can send a megabyte (more or less, mebibyte to be specific) per second. the rate at which you can change the pen position is called the carrier. you can't move faster than the carrier, or your signal is lost.
low frequencies carry through rock and even the planet earth, but higher frequencies dont' go through anything, so there's a tradeoff. VLF is used by the Navy to send messages to submarines. there is a single transmitter and it can send data to any sub anywhere on the earth because of the way VLF works, but that data is sent very slowly. communications satellites (like directv for example) can send very large amounts of data to your dish very quickly, but goofy things like rain can totally block the signal. such is the nature of electromagnetic communication.
i'm tired. this is kinda off topic but it should help anyone wanting to understand radio a bit better.
#36663 - s4uc3m4n - Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:39 am
Sorry, but I have to make sure I understood this... but if you were trying to set up a cantenna for your DS... would you be planning on shoulder mounting this cantenna or wearing it on your head. Or would you keep it in a briefcase for emergency communications...
| Quote: |
| Anyone got an old PrimeStar Dish... I wanna play Hunters with my buddy across town. |
In a strange way though... I could see myself putting it together...
If I were you I'd wait for them to finish the tunneling project...
#36668 - Dan_attacker - Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:34 pm
I've got a wireless network that goes several blocks to my friends house. It would probably be easy to play wireless games with DS, given if I had a DS and was willing to rip it open.
#36675 - this name - Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:34 pm
It's my understanding that some people have successfully gotten their access points and/or wireless NIC cards to recognize the 802.11 frames from the DS, using software such as Netstumbler. In that case, could the access point and/or wireless NIC card be told to repeat the signal from the DS? Access points and wireless NIC cards can obviously carry a signal much farther than the DS because of the increase in available power.
So, if you had two access points repeating the signal, couldn't two relatively distanced DS systems play each other? The lag may increase, though.
#36677 - dagamer34 - Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:11 am
| this name wrote: |
It's my understanding that some people have successfully gotten their access points and/or wireless NIC cards to recognize the 802.11 frames from the DS, using software such as Netstumbler. In that case, could the access point and/or wireless NIC card be told to repeat the signal from the DS? Access points and wireless NIC cards can obviously carry a signal much farther than the DS because of the increase in available power.
So, if you had two access points repeating the signal, couldn't two relatively distanced DS systems play each other? The lag may increase, though. |
Read long 30 page post for a 1/2 answer to that question. Ask again when done.
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#36680 - tepples - Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:40 am
Summary: Existing access points don't understand Nintendo's proprietary Ni-Fi.
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#36683 - this name - Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:55 am
| tepples wrote: |
| Summary: Existing access points don't understand Nintendo's proprietary Ni-Fi. |
In what way, though? If it can read it (regardless of if it can't arbitrarily "understand" it), then it can repeat it. So, in what way cannot it not be "understood"? I guess I can understand the fact that it can't be properly routed, but that's about it. That still wouldn't prevent it from being repeated.
#36688 - netdroid9 - Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:28 am
| Quote: |
| In what way, though? If it can read it (regardless of if it can't arbitrarily "understand" it), then it can repeat it. So, in what way cannot it not be "understood"? I guess I can understand the fact that it can't be properly routed, but that's about it. That still wouldn't prevent it from being repeated. |
I think it's because the Ni-Fi protocol involves validation against this kind of attempt. Probably a time signature.
#36717 - this name - Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:45 pm
| netdroid9 wrote: |
| Quote: | | In what way, though? If it can read it (regardless of if it can't arbitrarily "understand" it), then it can repeat it. So, in what way cannot it not be "understood"? I guess I can understand the fact that it can't be properly routed, but that's about it. That still wouldn't prevent it from being repeated. |
I think it's because the Ni-Fi protocol involves validation against this kind of attempt. Probably a time signature. |
Even then, the MAC frames are going to be basically the same because Nintendo's proprietary stuff doesn't even branch off into weirdness until the third layer of the OSI; everything until then appears to be exactly the same. I don't see any reason why a switch or hub couldn't repeat them. A router probably couldn't, unless you could somehow set it to designate by frames rather than packets.
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