#35932 - boxgamex - Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:06 am
Note: I am sorry fi this has been posted already. mods delte it if this has occured.
http://www.auby.no/
#35933 - Abscissa - Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:20 am
Sweet!
#35934 - josath - Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:48 am
#35936 - LOst? - Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:53 am
| boxgamex wrote: |
Note: I am sorry fi this has been posted already. mods delte it if this has occured.
http://www.auby.no/ |
Oh, this is news? Seeing people running things in emulators and programming new hardware without any info to us?
This isn't helping us at all.
#35939 - revo - Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:15 am
| boxgamex wrote: |
Note: I am sorry fi this has been posted already. mods delte it if this has occured.
http://www.auby.no/ |
I think, when it was posted last time and I saw it, there was nothing on bottom screen. Weird...
#35941 - netdroid9 - Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:34 am
Only the 2D Core B was initialised.
#35965 - ravuya - Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:34 pm
Hmm, not much in the way of help here.
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#35975 - Abscissa - Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:28 pm
| LOst? wrote: |
| boxgamex wrote: | Note: I am sorry fi this has been posted already. mods delte it if this has occured.
http://www.auby.no/ |
Oh, this is news? Seeing people running things in emulators and programming new hardware without any info to us?
This isn't helping us at all. |
Umm, so?
#35983 - Lynx - Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:16 pm
Question is.. since there isn't any info.. is it really "Homebrew" or do they have an SDK? Which would explain the lack of information..
#35987 - ampz - Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:46 pm
| Lynx wrote: |
| Question is.. since there isn't any info.. is it really "Homebrew" or do they have an SDK? Which would explain the lack of information.. |
There is no lack of information. Much of the important information is available. I'am guessing you are saying there is no information available because you don't know how to interpret the information which in fact is available.
You need a deep understanding of digital electronics in order to make any sense of the relevant information at this time.
#36011 - Lynx - Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:56 am
Wow.. you must be able to read a lot more from that page then I.. as all I see is a .zip download.. If you look at every other demo that is currently available, are they full blown games? No, they are exactly what a homebrew demo at this point would be. People learning to code for a device they have no commercial documentation for. More of a "what does this do" type of demo. Not an actual game.
Edit: Ampz, are we talking about the same site? The one in the first post of this thread?
#36014 - dagamer34 - Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:15 am
Are they playing around with undocumented registers yet? I would like to see what kind of anti-aliasing the DS apparently uses. Oh, and the wireless interface would be nice to know too.
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#36016 - tepples - Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:37 am
| Lynx wrote: |
| all I see is a .zip download.. If you look at every other demo that is currently available, are they full blown games? No, they are exactly what a homebrew demo at this point would be. |
Well at least some of the GBA demos come with full source code.
_________________
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-- Who?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#36022 - ampz - Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:20 am
| Lynx wrote: |
Wow.. you must be able to read a lot more from that page then I.. as all I see is a .zip download.. If you look at every other demo that is currently available, are they full blown games? No, they are exactly what a homebrew demo at this point would be. People learning to code for a device they have no commercial documentation for. More of a "what does this do" type of demo. Not an actual game.
Edit: Ampz, are we talking about the same site? The one in the first post of this thread? |
It is just a tetris game. It is techinically less advanced than some of the DS demos we have seen. It uses only the 2D graphics hardware (GBA compatible). I'am not talking about any specific site, I'am talking about the available DS information in general.
#36024 - tepples - Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:39 am
| ampz wrote: |
| It is just a tetris game. It is techinically less advanced than some of the DS demos we have seen. It uses only the 2D graphics hardware (GBA compatible). |
Using only GBA compatible 2D hardware is no excuse for a tetris clone being technically less advanced :) However, I will grant them that it's one of the first publicly available DS demos.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#36035 - ampz - Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:28 pm
The point I was trying to make is that the game use very little DS-specific features.
The author of the game did not have to know alot of DS specifications and registers.
#36037 - Lynx - Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:35 pm
| Quote: |
However, I will grant them that it's one of the first publicly available DS demos.
|
Looks to me like it's THE FIRST playable DS demo.
#36042 - Abscissa - Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:26 pm
I'm really suprised that there are any complaints at all in response to someone finally getting a playable game running on the DS. It's not good enough? Who cares, DS dev has been possible for all of what, a few weeks? Fancier stuff will come, geez. Even Doom didn't start out as anything impressive within the first few weeks. Games with sample source will come. API's will come. You can't pull together how-to's and API's and such until you can get something working yourself.
#36048 - Lynx - Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:44 pm
| Abscissa wrote: |
| I'm really suprised that there are any complaints at all in response to someone finally getting a playable game running on the DS. It's not good enough? |
I'm not complaining, I'm just questioning if it is actual "Homebrew" or someone with an SDK.
#36052 - ravuya - Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:12 pm
Yeah, I'd like the person behind it to step up and release some stuff.
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#36083 - ampz - Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:00 pm
I'am not complaining, I'am trying to make a point to thoose who question if the person who wrote the game have a SDK and keeps asking for information, that he did not use a whole lot of DS features. He does not have more information than is generally available.
The only DS-specific features I can see is the fact that he uses two screens and the slightly higher screen resolution of the DS. Thoose features are just small and natural extensions to the GBA hardware. Nothing new.
#36090 - Abscissa - Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:20 am
| Lynx wrote: |
| Abscissa wrote: | | I'm really suprised that there are any complaints at all in response to someone finally getting a playable game running on the DS. It's not good enough? |
I'm not complaining, I'm just questioning if it is actual "Homebrew" or someone with an SDK. |
Hmm, I kinda doubt he's working with an SDK. The only existing SDK right now is the official one, and I don't see why someone officially liscenced would be intersted in building that passthrough stuff (Unless they didn't want to shell out for the pricey dev system). Plus, if he was official, posting the little bit he did might be borderline NDA-infringement.
#36091 - Abscissa - Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:22 am
| ampz wrote: |
| I'am not complaining, I'am trying to make a point to thoose who question if the person who wrote the game have a SDK and keeps asking for information, that he did not use a whole lot of DS features. |
| Lynx wrote: |
| I'm not complaining, I'm just questioning if it is actual "Homebrew" or someone with an SDK. |
Hmm, I appear to have misinterpreted the mood of this thread ;)
#36093 - Joat - Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:31 am
It's actual homebrew. Desktopma is using dovoto's lib, although the portion he's using amounts to GBA.h plus vram banking and power control regs. Baring any further snafus, I should have ndslib up on sourceforge sometime tonight.
Seems to be some very grumpy people on this forum. Chill out and do a bit of research before accusing someone of using the official SDK.
As for first playable, nope. It's the first game, but other demos have been interactive (my register viewer or touch screen demo, dovoto's rotating cube).
_________________
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http://www.bottledlight.com
#36099 - Lynx - Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:06 am
I guess that depends on which definition of "play" you choose.. Mine being, "To take part in a game"
#36104 - dagamer34 - Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:06 am
| Lynx wrote: |
| I guess that depends on which definition of "play" you choose.. Mine being, "To take part in a game" |
Or maybe "to win". I wonder how you can win in Joat's touchscreen demo...
At least, the good thing out of all of this is that it is possible to run homebrew code on the DS and it works. Although, the majority of us with no EE skills won't be able to do anything with the DS (or even play around with an emulator as there are none) until some kind of commercialization of these methods occur. And that is usually done by pirates. :(
It would be nice though, if someone with a passthrough can make a series of demos that uses most of the DS's abilities known so that anyone who wants a crack at making an emulator for developmental purposes can.
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#36105 - Shock The Dark Mage - Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:09 am
| Joat wrote: |
It's actual homebrew. Desktopma is using dovoto's lib, although the portion he's using amounts to GBA.h plus vram banking and power control regs. Baring any further snafus, I should have ndslib up on sourceforge sometime tonight.
Seems to be some very grumpy people on this forum. Chill out and do a bit of research before accusing someone of using the official SDK.
As for first playable, nope. It's the first game, but other demos have been interactive (my register viewer or touch screen demo, dovoto's rotating cube). |
Thanks for the clarification Joat.
So the OpenGL functions in dovoto sample code is his(dovoto) own implentation of GL functions applied to Nintendo DS ?
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#36112 - tepples - Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:50 am
| dagamer34 wrote: |
| I wonder how you can win in Joat's touchscreen demo... |
I wonder how you can win in Tetris.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#36118 - Sukanu - Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:15 am
| tepples wrote: |
| dagamer34 wrote: | | I wonder how you can win in Joat's touchscreen demo... |
I wonder how you can win in Tetris. |
Maby the deffination should be somthing you can lose... I still have nightmares about some of those never ending colecovision games.
Fraction feaver *shudder*
#36119 - dagamer34 - Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:21 am
| tepples wrote: |
| dagamer34 wrote: | | I wonder how you can win in Joat's touchscreen demo... |
I wonder how you can win in Tetris. |
You know, the demo where he wrote words on the touch screen?
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#36123 - sgeos - Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:00 am
| dagamer34 wrote: |
| I wonder how you can win in Joat's touchscreen demo... |
By reading the source and understanding how it works.
| tepples wrote: |
| I wonder how you can win in Tetris. |
Depends on the game mode. In some modes you just have to clear X lines. In the never ending score based modes, I think getting a high score counts as a win.
-Brendan
#36132 - Abscissa - Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:47 am
| dagamer34 wrote: |
At least, the good thing out of all of this is that it is possible to run homebrew code on the DS and it works. Although, the majority of us with no EE skills won't be able to do anything with the DS (or even play around with an emulator as there are none) until some kind of commercialization of these methods occur. And that is usually done by pirates. :(
It would be nice though, if someone with a passthrough can make a series of demos that uses most of the DS's abilities known so that anyone who wants a crack at making an emulator for developmental purposes can. |
Have anyone posted a tutorial/how-to on building a passthrough for those with at least some experience, or is it still just "take the specs and design your own circuit"? (Sorry if this is was already answered someplace obvious.)
#36143 - netdroid9 - Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:52 am
No tutorials yet I'm afraid, although PassMe sounds like it could become a how-to of sorts.
#36157 - Dick Muscle - Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:06 pm
If this really is a DS demo then why is there two separate images being displayed on each screen => two separate games? I'm new to all this DS stuff, but that much seems clear.
From my limited understanding of the DS - isn't this person just running a standard GBA rom (which displays in one screen) on the DS hardware? The second screen is perhaps being fed from an external source? The file means nothing to me.
#36176 - dagamer34 - Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:51 pm
| Dick Muscle wrote: |
If this really is a DS demo then why is there two separate images being displayed on each screen => two separate games? I'm new to all this DS stuff, but that much seems clear.
From my limited understanding of the DS - isn't this person just running a standard GBA rom (which displays in one screen) on the DS hardware? The second screen is perhaps being fed from an external source? The file means nothing to me. |
No. The GBA flash card is simply used as a storage meduim and nothing else when in DS mode. The DS has full access to the GBA slot, and since people already have GBA flash cartridges on hand, it would be much easier to build a device (aka passthrough), which reroutes the DS to execute code from the DS slot to the GBA slot. Hopefully if/when commercialized, you will be able to stick a passthrough into the DS slot which wil reroute execution to your GBA flash cartridge.
At the moment though, I am unaware of the current designs of passthroughs, whether it is a "I know this and this, so simply building this will make it work", and there are lots of different designs or if there is some common point from which everyone started (besides the materials they are using).
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#36207 - Abscissa - Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:07 am
| dagamer34 wrote: |
| which reroutes the DS to execute code from the DS slot to the GBA slot. |
The code is still being run on the ARM9, right?
#36213 - dagamer34 - Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:02 am
| Abscissa wrote: |
| dagamer34 wrote: | | which reroutes the DS to execute code from the DS slot to the GBA slot. |
The code is still being run on the ARM9, right? |
As far as I know, yes. But I myself do not have a passthrough. This is just my interpretation of the information that has been revealed to the public. It is not 100% accurate. I am sure darkfader or Joat would be able to tell you in full what exactly their passthrough does to make running hombrew code on the DS possible.
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#36227 - ampz - Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:17 am
| Abscissa wrote: |
| dagamer34 wrote: | | which reroutes the DS to execute code from the DS slot to the GBA slot. |
The code is still being run on the ARM9, right? |
No, not initially.
The ARM9 executes metroid code while the ARM7 is tricked to execute code from the GBA cart.
The ARM7 then copy code from the GBA cart to DS internal memory for the ARM9 to execute.
#36229 - Abscissa - Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:34 am
| ampz wrote: |
| Abscissa wrote: | | dagamer34 wrote: | | which reroutes the DS to execute code from the DS slot to the GBA slot. |
The code is still being run on the ARM9, right? |
No, not initially.
The ARM9 executes metroid code while the ARM7 is tricked to execute code from the GBA cart.
The ARM7 then copy code from the GBA cart to DS internal memory for the ARM9 to execute. |
Interesting. How does the ARM7 get tricked into executing from the GBA cart? Does the DS normally copy code from the DS cart into DS RAM before executing?
#36242 - ampz - Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:19 pm
| Abscissa wrote: |
| ampz wrote: | | Abscissa wrote: | | dagamer34 wrote: | | which reroutes the DS to execute code from the DS slot to the GBA slot. |
The code is still being run on the ARM9, right? |
No, not initially.
The ARM9 executes metroid code while the ARM7 is tricked to execute code from the GBA cart.
The ARM7 then copy code from the GBA cart to DS internal memory for the ARM9 to execute. |
Interesting. How does the ARM7 get tricked into executing from the GBA cart? Does the DS normally copy code from the DS cart into DS RAM before executing? |
There is a execution pointer in the DS card header. Passthrough devices change this pointer to point at the GBA cart.
Yes. Code cannot be executed directly from the DS card.
#36244 - jp - Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:40 pm
I don't understand why they are using passthrough. Why not use a home made ds card ?
If I understand all of this, when using a passthrough they change the header of the DS card to change the ARM7 entry point. So why not changing both ARM7 and ARM9 entry address for an address on the GBA cart, so there is no need for soldering the genuine DS card on the passthrough.
It shouldn't be too difficult as (i think) the command are unencrypted when accessing the DS cart header.
Am i missing something ?
JP.
#36253 - JesusXP - Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:47 pm
yes, your missing something, home made DS carts do not exist
#36254 - sandymac - Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:54 pm
jp: Give http://www.bottledlight.com/ds/index.php/Hardware/Passthrough a read [or twelve].
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Last edited by sandymac on Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
#36255 - jp - Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:57 pm
| JesusXP wrote: |
| yes, your missing something, home made DS carts do not exist |
I know that, however, since we need just the header, we can build one (something similar to natrium42 passthrough)
I read it and except that you can't execute ARM9 code directly, there is nothing against this method.
If you build a header (with the correct CRC) with all address pointing to the GBA card (ARM7, ARM9 entry point,...), then when the DS will boot, it will read the header from the DS card (in unencrypted mode) and then will load everything from the GBA card without any access to the DS card. So, if this method is correct, we don't need to solder a genuine DS card to the passthrough.
JP.
#36260 - ampz - Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:01 pm
| jp wrote: |
| I read it and except that you can't execute ARM9 code directly, there is nothing against this method. |
Sorry but there is.
After the DS read the header it enables the encryption and read out a bunch of other stuff. If this encrypted data is not correct then the DS will report that there is no card in the DS card slot, and will refuse to boot any DS software.
Problem is the encryption has not been cracked, so we need a genuine DS card to respond with proper encrypted data to the DS' encrypted requests.
This information can be found at the link above.
#36267 - jp - Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:39 pm
Sorry, i didn't understood it like that. I am really sorry if my questions are bothering you, but it wasn't clear to me.
JP.
#36269 - ampz - Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:04 pm
| jp wrote: |
Sorry, i didn't understood it like that. I am really sorry if my questions are bothering you, but it wasn't clear to me.
JP. |
It is alot of sometimes complicated information to take in. It is understandable that not everyone understand it all from reading it the first time.