#35957 - tepples - Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:03 pm
Slashdot is carrying a GamerCentric story about Nintendo, which licensed Palm OS for use on the Nintendo DS in order to compete with the PSP. Further details are forthcoming at the next E3 expo.
Does this mean the DS will run Palm apps? A changing stance toward homebrew?
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#35962 - dagamer34 - Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:47 pm
| tepples wrote: |
Slashdot is carrying a GamerCentric story about Nintendo, which licensed Palm OS for use on the Nintendo DS in order to compete with the PSP. Further details are forthcoming at the next E3 expo.
Does this mean the DS will run Palm apps? A changing stance toward homebrew? |
Probably standard Palm software. However, I don't know where extra programs would be stored as DS cart RAM is limiting. From what I know, it's 128 Kilobytes at most.
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#35964 - revo - Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:29 pm
I hope it will be compatible with video player (possibility of using SD cards) .
Maybe Nintendo will give some custom API with possibility to use all of DS potential ;)
#35967 - ravuya - Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:39 pm
Why did they license it now? Palm is completely overhauling the PalmOS for the next release.
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#35969 - Seiru - Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:17 pm
Following where this story came from, the trail seems to end at "Spong"...a wholly unreliable site that basically creates rumors to get traffic.
I'd wait for an official announcement from Nintendo.
#35970 - ampz - Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:18 pm
| dagamer34 wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | Slashdot is carrying a GamerCentric story about Nintendo, which licensed Palm OS for use on the Nintendo DS in order to compete with the PSP. Further details are forthcoming at the next E3 expo.
Does this mean the DS will run Palm apps? A changing stance toward homebrew? |
Probably standard Palm software. However, I don't know where extra programs would be stored as DS cart RAM is limiting. From what I know, it's 128 Kilobytes at most. |
DS cart RAM? There is no RAM on DS game cards.
#35974 - Abscissa - Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:27 pm
| Seiru wrote: |
Following where this story came from, the trail seems to end at "Spong"...a wholly unreliable site that basically creates rumors to get traffic.
I'd wait for an official announcement from Nintendo. |
I agree, there don't seem to be any credible sources.
#35978 - tepples - Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:32 pm
| ampz wrote: |
| dagamer34 wrote: | | However, I don't know where extra programs would be stored as DS cart RAM is limiting. From what I know, it's 128 Kilobytes at most. |
DS cart RAM? There is no RAM on DS game cards. |
OK, I guess a lot of GBA homebrew developers are used to savegame storage being SRAM. But if you replace "DS cart RAM" with something more general such as "DS cart savegame storage" or "Option Pak storage", does the argument still hold?
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#35979 - dagamer34 - Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:37 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| ampz wrote: | | dagamer34 wrote: | | However, I don't know where extra programs would be stored as DS cart RAM is limiting. From what I know, it's 128 Kilobytes at most. |
DS cart RAM? There is no RAM on DS game cards. |
OK, I guess a lot of GBA homebrew developers are used to savegame storage being SRAM. But if you replace "DS cart RAM" with something more general such as "DS cart savegame storage" or "Option Pak storage", does the argument still hold? |
Like tepples said, I am still used to GBA lingo. "DS cart save storage"
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#35981 - ampz - Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:46 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| ampz wrote: | | dagamer34 wrote: | | However, I don't know where extra programs would be stored as DS cart RAM is limiting. From what I know, it's 128 Kilobytes at most. |
DS cart RAM? There is no RAM on DS game cards. |
OK, I guess a lot of GBA homebrew developers are used to savegame storage being SRAM. But if you replace "DS cart RAM" with something more general such as "DS cart savegame storage" or "Option Pak storage", does the argument still hold? |
No, it does not.
DS games use serial EEPROM for savegame storage. There is no limit to the size.
Whats more, the main storage could easily be replaced (partly or entirely) with inexpensive block flash memory. (This would be the preffered way to store extra programs)
#35985 - abigsmurf - Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:34 pm
using flash for virtual memory is a bad idea because of the limited amount of times you can write and erase to flash. If you're writing to flash 50-100 or so times with each usage, it won't last long
#35986 - ampz - Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:39 pm
Who is talking about using it as virtual memory?
#36005 - abigsmurf - Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:29 am
missread earlier posts
all this talk of RAM is confusing me. Wish people wouldn't say ram when talking about none volitile memory
#36007 - quonic - Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:48 am
If one is confused of what is what here is
some defined acronyms of memory types.
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/ram/types.htm
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#36023 - ampz - Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:24 am
They don't explain PROM, EPROM, flash EPROM, EEPROM, and NVRAM.
#36025 - netdroid9 - Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:22 am
PROM = Programable ROM
EPROM = Erasable Programable ROM
Flash EPROM = Flash Erasable Programable ROM
EEPROM = Electronically Erasable Programable ROM
What is NVROM
#36026 - PhoenixSoft - Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:28 am
Because Nintendo removed the link port, the only way (apart from adding a USB port to an option pack cart) to hotsync would be over WiFi, right?
And that likely means that Nintendo will let PalmOS apps access the wireless chipset just like they do on any other handheld - giving us instant access to IM clients, web browsers, everything! And not to mention the great stylus-optimised games, such as Bejeweled (which we currently only have on the DS in the form of Zoo-Keeper, which is nowhere near as good as Bejeweled 2). The only problem I foresee is with resolutions. AFAIK, Palm devices usually only have resolutions of 160 x 160, 320 x 320, etc. So how would applications deal with a 256 x 192 screen? Would they run in 160 x 160 mode or stretch to the full screen?
#36027 - TJ - Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:42 am
Obviously they would include WiFi support. It would seem a bit pointless to license PalmOS for a WiFi enabled device, and not use it.
Also, I would guess the GBA Option Pak cart would either have a USB connection, or a docking cradle to hotsync.
#36028 - netdroid9 - Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:58 am
It'll probably be a kit (Famicom Disk System, anyone?).
That is, IF they licensed it.
#36032 - MumblyJoe - Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:13 pm
It certainly is a shame however, that (in my opinion) PalmOS blows dogs for quarters.
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#36033 - quonic - Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:22 pm
| netdroid9 wrote: |
| What is NVROM |
I think you ment NVRAM not NVROM.
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/bios/compCMOS-c.html
#36036 - ampz - Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:32 pm
Yes.
NVRAM is battery backed SRAM.
#36043 - Abscissa - Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:30 pm
Do we even know that the PDA stuff is DS-related at all? Nintendo did register those other trademarks. (This is assuming, of course, that the PalmOS rumors are even true in the first place).
#36045 - ravuya - Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:41 pm
| MumblyJoe wrote: |
| It certainly is a shame however, that (in my opinion) PalmOS blows dogs for quarters. |
Pennies. PalmOS is such a strung-out abortion that Palm is going to Linux for their next version.
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#36055 - sandymac - Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:33 pm
| Abscissa wrote: |
| Do we even know that the PDA stuff is DS-related at all? |
Or, assuming the "news" is true, which I doubt, it could be Nintendo just licensed some of the stylus based text input methods or touch screen related tech.
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#36063 - quonic - Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:47 pm
| sandymac wrote: |
| Or, assuming the "news" is true, which I doubt, it could be Nintendo just licensed some of the stylus based text input methods or touch screen related tech. |
Large companies will license many patents just to the point that they can,hopefully, later build upon the idea. And to stop competition.
EDIT:
P.S.
It is always a good idea, money permitting, to patent all you can; because, you can always sell them later down the road.
#36092 - Abscissa - Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:24 am
| ravuya wrote: |
| MumblyJoe wrote: | | It certainly is a shame however, that (in my opinion) PalmOS blows dogs for quarters. |
Pennies. PalmOS is such a strung-out abortion that Palm is going to Linux for their next version. |
Really? I haven't had a problem with it. On either the user end or the dev end. I've always found it much cleaner than PocketPC.
#36094 - Joat - Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:35 am
I'd use a palm PDA over a PPC any day, and although I haven't developed for a palm, I certainly don't enjoy coding for the PPC. It's more of a tools issue than API tho (and the fact that I've got a nasty code base someone else wrote that I'm maintaining and extending).
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#36110 - netdroid9 - Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:50 am
| ravuya wrote: |
| MumblyJoe wrote: | | It certainly is a shame however, that (in my opinion) PalmOS blows dogs for quarters. |
Pennies. PalmOS is such a strung-out abortion that Palm is going to Linux for their next version. |
Actually, there are two companys that make up palm:
Palmsource, which has one purpose: Creating PalmOS.
and Palmone, who make the hardware.
I somehow doubt PalmOS'll be aborted for a looonnnggg time.
#36129 - Abscissa - Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:38 am
| Joat wrote: |
| I'd use a palm PDA over a PPC any day, and although I haven't developed for a palm, I certainly don't enjoy coding for the PPC. It's more of a tools issue than API tho (and the fact that I've got a nasty code base someone else wrote that I'm maintaining and extending). |
I haven't used any PPC tools lately, but I remember from the breif time that I did take a look at them that the PPC "emulator" was very paper-clip-and-chewing-gum compared to the Palm emulator.
The PalmOS API (well, last time I used it) is/was very much like a stripped-down and simplified Win32.
#36138 - TJ - Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:23 am
I always liked PalmOS, even from the beginning,
#36149 - Sebbo - Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:21 am
| PhoenixSoft wrote: |
| The only problem I foresee is with resolutions. AFAIK, Palm devices usually only have resolutions of 160 x 160, 320 x 320, etc. So how would applications deal with a 256 x 192 screen? Would they run in 160 x 160 mode or stretch to the full screen? |
what could b possible is that the desktop is put over both screens...top half on top screen, bottom half on bottom screen, and then by using the select button you can swap the two over so you can use the touch screen? fiddly, i know, but its just an idea
sorry for sending the topic back a couple of posts
#36155 - netdroid9 - Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:58 pm
They'll be handled as two seperate screens, for sure.
How do 160x160 applications deal with 320x320 applications and vice versa?
#36156 - Sebbo - Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:00 pm
i imagine 320x320 machines might smart-scale 160x160 apps or just run them windowed at 160x160...i personally don't know as i don't have a PalmOS...should check up on what my gf has, i think she has PPC tho
#36196 - Sebbo - Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:20 pm
pocket pc stretches them, so i kinda imagine the same would happen in palmOS
#36216 - netdroid9 - Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:48 am
I believe they are smart-scaled.
#36221 - tepples - Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:54 am
Smart-scaled as in bilinear filtering, or smart-scaled as in Super Eagle/2xSaI/Scale2x/hq2x?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#36224 - outRider - Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:47 am
Pixel-doubling, i.e. point filtering.
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#36233 - netdroid9 - Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:17 am
Yeah, pixel-doubling.
#36373 - zazery - Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:13 am
I think the licensing of the Palm OS is because of the Organizer Plus. I thought Nintendo said something like "It's all about the games." It will be interesting how it turns out.
#36374 - octopusfluff - Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:47 am
I'd be awful curious as to storage, if they intend to actually put PalmOS on the DS or a similar device. Last time I did any direct work with PalmOS, it had a crazy memory model that mixed applications and their data. Ill-behaved applications (and on what platform do all applications behave as per spec, or even vaguely sensible practices?) could easy thrash some types of storage a little too often, raising the sort of situation some people see with some Linux filesystems on the PocketPC devices.. i.e. cards with sections that have been written to a little too often.
'course, I'd still like to see something a little more official.
#36383 - Krylon - Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:11 pm
Nice analogy, zazery.
http://www.summitsoftcorp.com/CandyPress/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=28
SummitSoft has this product that has a whole line of different utilities and games for Palms. It would make sense that they would take advantage of Nintendo licensing Palm OS to release these products onto the DS market. Also, Palm OS, depending on how it's activated (through cart or other method) may be used to generate better server lists and WiFi spots, etc. (considering the few features on that page that include such things)
#36385 - Boeboe - Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:10 pm
heh, one of the programs included on that website is "where is my ram?"
Already I can hear my handheld replying: "Inside your ds, DUH!"
Besides, if they would use debian, I bet they would use their own, custom software, that makes better use of the DS features.
#36401 - dmgice - Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:02 am
I personally think that they're only licensing a customized version of the OS that acts as software for an SD Card Reader/Writer Option Pak.
Although.. the main source is Spong.. and they're.. well.. trying to get honest information out of them is like trying to get a coherent sentence out of Ted Kennedy.
The idea that I think Nintendo is going for is the release of an SD Card Reader/Writer Option Pak. The Palm OS software would have online features, and allow you to play music/movies through the SD Card Reader/Writer Option Pak, as well as manage files in it, play some applications, store e-mail, text files, image files, etc. Essentially the two would be packed together. For ease of typing.. I will refer to it as an SDC R/W OP.. or maybe.. a VIRTUAL POCKET (VP) to store things in.
The Palm OS software wouldn't be the only thing you could use the VP with though. Imagine being able to design a pattern on your computer, save it to an SD Card, then put the SD Card into your VP, plug the VP into Slot 2, and then put in Animal Crossing and upload that design into Animal Crossing. Or you could download an image you made in Animal Crossing to the VP, pop in the Palm OS software and send that image to a friend's e-mail.
But that's just my ideas...
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#36403 - Mchart - Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:44 am
I don't think Nintendo is smart enough to do something to that extreme, even though doing it would be smart.
#36404 - MumblyJoe - Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:31 am
| zazery wrote: |
| I think the licensing of the Palm OS is because of the Organizer Plus. I thought Nintendo said something like "It's all about the games." It will be interesting how it turns out. |
Bizzarely, Organizer Plus is listed in the genre "Action".
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#36410 - Sebbo - Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:58 am
| dmgice wrote: |
For ease of typing.. I will refer to it as an SDC R/W OP.. or maybe.. a VIRTUAL POCKET (VP) to store things in.
|
hmm, i'm guessing you've read about nintendo's new trademark, V-Pocket?
just a registered trademark at the moment tho, no other news
#36421 - djemergency - Sat Feb 19, 2005 12:36 pm
as u guys know it is all false news. Read Here http://www.djemergency.com/nintendopaparazzi/modules/news/article.php?storyid=11
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#36422 - Sebbo - Sat Feb 19, 2005 12:45 pm
the V-Pocket trademark isn't fake, that much is known
and nintendo have been talking about a translator dictionary for the DS, so organiser software is just another step
sure, the palmOS rumour might b exactly that, but if nintendo is trying to capture the adult demographic with the DS like many in the industry are saying they are, then a range of organiser stuff is a good idea
#36424 - netdroid9 - Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:29 pm
And if they do they'll make sure it'll be useless for homebrewers :(
(/me Is not happy with the build I'm trying to get working...)
#36489 - Spaceface - Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:55 am
wow dspaparazzi, the biggest bunch of dicktwats on the web
#36492 - Lynx - Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:42 pm
Heh.. Don't hold back.. tell us how you really feel.
Anyway:
| Quote: |
| why pay Palm royalties for a licensed OS when Nintendo could just create its own? |
Uhh.. Maybe because there is... oh.. a million or so programs already written for the Palm OS?
#36493 - tepples - Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:46 pm
Would Nintendo want users to use off-the-shelf Palm OS programs whose developers haven't paid the Seal fees?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#36504 - dmgice - Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:46 am
I guess we'll hear more about V-Pocket come E3. :-)
I think that if Nintendo were going to use the Palm OS... they would specialize it so only certain Palm Applications would work on it.
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