#37372 - linus - Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:28 am
Is anyone still working on getting wireless cracked / working over the internet? I know that this forum is mainly for homebrew, but someones gotta know something and this seemed like the most active place.
I know Nintendo has said they will be officially providing an online service later in the year, but Im having trouble seeing how. No wireless modem routers support the NiFi, and only some can be hacked to support it (the linksys WRT54G me thinks). Does this mean well all have to use Nintendo wifi bridges?
Someone help me out here my understanding is limited at best.
Linus (not the clever one)
#37374 - Spaceface - Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:36 am
I actually got a question for the devs. How will they let us play online through all wi-fi hotspots? I mean, I should probably have to turn off shit like my WPA encryption. How on earth is this going to work on my router/wifi accesspoint?
#37376 - PowerCat - Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:48 am
NDS Dedicated Access Point hahaha
#37380 - TJ - Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:15 am
| Quote: |
| No wireless modem routers support the NiFi, and only some can be hacked to support it (the linksys WRT54G me thinks). Does this mean well all have to use Nintendo wifi bridges? |
People still don't get this, eh?
The DS wireless hardware is an 802.11 transceiver. The only thing that makes it "NiFi" is the fact that Nintendo isn't running TCP/IP over the hardware, they use their own frame-based communication protocol.
For online-enabled games, all the developers will do is use TCP/IP over the same hardware, and it will be fully WiFi compatible with your router.
| Quote: |
| I actually got a question for the devs. How will they let us play online through all wi-fi hotspots? I mean, I should probably have to turn off shit like my WPA encryption. How on earth is this going to work on my router/wifi accesspoint? |
Again, online-enabled games will be playable on any WiFi router. Since the DS has built in RSA encryption, WEP is likely supported out of the box, and WPA could also be possible.
#37382 - dagamer34 - Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:34 am
The only thing I wam worried about is web-based authentication systems. My university has a WiFi network which uses a web-browser to sign in with a username and password. Any idea how that might work, or is there something obvious that I am missing?
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#37384 - maniacdevnull - Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:50 am
Is anyone making progress with NiFi hacking anymore?
Just tossing this out there, but could the NDS be using another frequency in addition to the 2.4Ghz band? Maybe another signal of some type to say "I'm a real DS" like 900Mhz? Heck, the things got a microphone, maybe it produces ultrasound?
I don't see why Big N would set up NiFi so you could emulate it without specialized hardware. The idea of selling (forcing you to buy) another device to play the games online just sounds so... Nintendo of them.
(fixed a typo)
#37385 - Gatchers - Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:54 am
900MHz would make the DS illegal in some countries, like Singapore.
#37387 - TJ - Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:28 am
| Quote: |
| The only thing I wam worried about is web-based authentication systems. My university has a WiFi network which uses a web-browser to sign in with a username and password. Any idea how that might work, or is there something obvious that I am missing? |
Then you are probably screwed. You could possibly find your DS's MAC, then have your computer spoof that, authenticate with the web based form to get an IP, then drop the connection from the PC and turn on the DS.
Depending on the school's system, that might work, but even if it does, it would be a bit of a hassle.
maniacdevnull, I suggest you read the Wireless Hacking topic, since those ideas there are way off base.
#37397 - Spaceface - Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:30 am
OK so if I get it correct the TCP/IP connectivity would have to be built into each application, rather than already being onboard on the DS. Wouldn't that be a complete pain in the ass to code every single time? Or would nintendo've made such a choice to add flexibility on the coder's end?
#37398 - nicscool - Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:45 am
| Spaceface wrote: |
| OK so if I get it correct the TCP/IP connectivity would have to be built into each application, rather than already being onboard on the DS. Wouldn't that be a complete pain in the ass to code every single time? Or would nintendo've made such a choice to add flexibility on the coder's end? |
Thats what I thought
#37399 - TJ - Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:15 am
It is obviously built into the development kits.
It is no more a "pain in the ass" than supporting local wireless.
#37405 - Spaceface - Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:20 pm
well I presume connectivity should be made for instance for WEP and WPA.. other than that it should be relatively the same...
#37411 - Boeboe - Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:59 pm
| dagamer34 wrote: |
| The only thing I wam worried about is web-based authentication systems. My university has a WiFi network which uses a web-browser to sign in with a username and password. Any idea how that might work, or is there something obvious that I am missing? |
or maybe, nintendo would add a little power to their wifi campaign by adding browser and other connectivity software on a separate gamecard =)
#37412 - quonic - Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:47 pm
| Boeboe wrote: |
| or maybe, nintendo would add a little power to their wifi campaign by adding browser and other connectivity software on a separate gamecard =) |
That would be worth the money to buy. Plus they could make a gba cart that you could store bookmarks and such.
_________________
Comming Soon: http://www.spyingwind.com
#37413 - MumblyJoe - Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:59 pm
I have two points to make:
1. I am hanging out for tunneling as much as the next person, but I have nothing to offer to the development of such technology.
2. Seeing as I have no knowledge of the technology, I will not try to make wild stabs in the dark as to how it works right now, it is best to just use the system the way Nintendo has specified FOR COMMERCIAL GAMES and worry about tunneling etc for home brew WHEN IT IS MORE WIDESPREAD. I personally see the small flood of new posters here asking odd questions that have little to do with development as a sure sign of the rampant piracy people want.
_________________
www.hungrydeveloper.com
Version 2.0 now up - guaranteed at least 100% more pleasing!
#37457 - dagamer34 - Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:49 pm
| Boeboe wrote: |
| dagamer34 wrote: | | The only thing I wam worried about is web-based authentication systems. My university has a WiFi network which uses a web-browser to sign in with a username and password. Any idea how that might work, or is there something obvious that I am missing? |
or maybe, nintendo would add a little power to their wifi campaign by adding browser and other connectivity software on a separate gamecard =) |
Apparently the PSP doesn't support it, so I doubt the DS will either. Still, there needs to be a unified way to save all that information. Inputting information to access a network takes time, and it would be a lot better if you could simply detect a hotspot and quickly join a game.
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#37494 - linus - Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:40 am
| Quote: |
| I personally see the small flood of new posters here asking odd questions that have little to do with development as a sure sign of the rampant piracy people want |
Im not quite sure what your getting at. i acknowledged that this forum is mainly for the development of homebrew code (and apologized for a slightly off topic post). All i did was ask what ppl knew about the wireless gaming implementation. i admit the question was somewhat a newbie question because i completely forgot TCP/IP is not implemented at hardware level.
I think your making A LOT of assumptions here, how is my question about wireless tunneling in ANY way related to piracy?
ps -- i can only assume your referring to me as a one of the new posters mentioned in your post.
#37496 - MumblyJoe - Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:08 am
| linus wrote: |
I think your making A LOT of assumptions here, how is my question about wireless tunneling in ANY way related to piracy?
ps -- i can only assume your referring to me as a one of the new posters mentioned in your post. |
Sorry man, I wasn't attacking you personally, I was just having a hissy fit after reading so many things on DS development which were garbage, and there have been a lot of new posters asking dumb shit. But you are right, your post was fine and legal and intelligent and I should have kept my mouth shut.
_________________
www.hungrydeveloper.com
Version 2.0 now up - guaranteed at least 100% more pleasing!
#37619 - Darkain - Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:57 am
the DS wont be tunneled... lets just leave it at that. at least, non-IP games wont be. games designed for the internet will be played on the internet. games designed for local networks will be played on local networks. end of story.
_________________
-=- Darkain Dragoon -=-
http://www.darkain.com
DarkStar for Nintendo DS
#37629 - Sebbo - Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:25 pm
nintendo is releasing another product later this year that uses WiFi...the Revolution. they've also said that connection with the DS is a great possibility. so why not use the Revolution to recieve NiFi from DS games, package these packets into TCP/IP and send them over the net to the recieving Revolution console which then spits it back out as NiFi? it might b something nintendo does themselves, or even some homebrewers after we work out how to run code on the Revolution (PSO load trick would still work, esp considering the Revolution is backwards compatible)
anyway, just an idea, and nintendo if u do monitor these forums, you damn well better seriously consider this
#37630 - MumblyJoe - Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:34 pm
| Sebbo wrote: |
| after we work out how to run code on the Revolution (PSO load trick would still work, esp considering the Revolution is backwards compatible) |
PSO load trick might still work, but chances are high that unless we the find a way to switch to revolution mode we wouldn't be able to access the wifi hardware.
_________________
www.hungrydeveloper.com
Version 2.0 now up - guaranteed at least 100% more pleasing!
#37661 - tepples - Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:37 pm
That is, unless GCN is to Revolution as DMG is to GBC. Given that the CPU in the Revolution is still a PowerPC processor and that Niиtendo isn't concentrating on "even more photorealistic graphics than our last console!!!11", this is entirely possible.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#37662 - dagamer34 - Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:58 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| That is, unless GCN is to Revolution as DMG is to GBC. Given that the CPU in the Revolution is still a PowerPC processor and that Niиtendo isn't concentrating on "even more photorealistic graphics than our last console!!!11", this is entirely possible. |
But they still believe a high-performing next-generation processor and GPU is required. They want to add more to their next-gen system, but not replace core principles such as graphical quality.
I wonder about the architecture of the Revolution. Sticking in a 485Mhz processor strictly for backwards compatability reasons seems a bit costly. I am just imagining the PS4 having to be backward compatible with the PS1, PS2, and PS3. The price of the PS1's processor is negligable, but the PS2 and PS3's processor won't exactly be free. Maybe that's the reason why they designed the Cell, so all of those processors will actually be used for something as opposed to how the GBA uses the GB/GBC's Z80 (absolutely nothing).
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#37683 - Darkain - Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:50 am
| dagamer34 wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | That is, unless GCN is to Revolution as DMG is to GBC. Given that the CPU in the Revolution is still a PowerPC processor and that Niиtendo isn't concentrating on "even more photorealistic graphics than our last console!!!11", this is entirely possible. |
But they still believe a high-performing next-generation processor and GPU is required. They want to add more to their next-gen system, but not replace core principles such as graphical quality.
I wonder about the architecture of the Revolution. Sticking in a 485Mhz processor strictly for backwards compatability reasons seems a bit costly. I am just imagining the PS4 having to be backward compatible with the PS1, PS2, and PS3. The price of the PS1's processor is negligable, but the PS2 and PS3's processor won't exactly be free. Maybe that's the reason why they designed the Cell, so all of those processors will actually be used for something as opposed to how the GBA uses the GB/GBC's Z80 (absolutely nothing). |
if its using the same architecture, you dont need multiple CPUs (old and new). look at the Nintendo DS. in GBA mode, the ARM9 is disabled and the ARM7 runs at 16mhz. in DS mode, the ARM9 is enabled and ARM7 runs at 33mhz. much like how todays 3+ghz CPUs can still run DOOM (which was designed for an i386)
_________________
-=- Darkain Dragoon -=-
http://www.darkain.com
DarkStar for Nintendo DS
#37686 - dagamer34 - Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:45 am
| Darkain wrote: |
| dagamer34 wrote: | | tepples wrote: | | That is, unless GCN is to Revolution as DMG is to GBC. Given that the CPU in the Revolution is still a PowerPC processor and that Niиtendo isn't concentrating on "even more photorealistic graphics than our last console!!!11", this is entirely possible. |
But they still believe a high-performing next-generation processor and GPU is required. They want to add more to their next-gen system, but not replace core principles such as graphical quality.
I wonder about the architecture of the Revolution. Sticking in a 485Mhz processor strictly for backwards compatability reasons seems a bit costly. I am just imagining the PS4 having to be backward compatible with the PS1, PS2, and PS3. The price of the PS1's processor is negligable, but the PS2 and PS3's processor won't exactly be free. Maybe that's the reason why they designed the Cell, so all of those processors will actually be used for something as opposed to how the GBA uses the GB/GBC's Z80 (absolutely nothing). |
if its using the same architecture, you dont need multiple CPUs (old and new). look at the Nintendo DS. in GBA mode, the ARM9 is disabled and the ARM7 runs at 16mhz. in DS mode, the ARM9 is enabled and ARM7 runs at 33mhz. much like how todays 3+ghz CPUs can still run DOOM (which was designed for an i386) |
In every example of backwards compatability in consoles, the original hardware is still there in some shape or form. In the PS2, the original Playstation CPU is in there. In the Game Boy Advance, the original Game Boy CPU is still in there. The thing is that console/portable hardware is strictly designed with one chip in mind with little to no error. The actually depend on the clock speed of the chip itself. In the case of DOOM PC's today, the thing is that DOOM, as far as I know, doesn't run specifically for one clock speed. Doom is capped at running 60fps or so, so it really doesn't matter how fast your CPU is. Console/hardware games are intermittantely dependant on the hardware itself. Running the CPU twice as fast on a console doesn't make the game run twice as fast.
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(
#37688 - Darkain - Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:54 am
| dagamer34 wrote: |
| In every example of backwards compatability in consoles, the original hardware is still there in some shape or form. In the PS2, the original Playstation CPU is in there. In the Game Boy Advance, the original Game Boy CPU is still in there. The thing is that console/portable hardware is strictly designed with one chip in mind with little to no error. The actually depend on the clock speed of the chip itself. In the case of DOOM PC's today, the thing is that DOOM, as far as I know, doesn't run specifically for one clock speed. Doom is capped at running 60fps or so, so it really doesn't matter how fast your CPU is. Console/hardware games are intermittantely dependant on the hardware itself. Running the CPU twice as fast on a console doesn't make the game run twice as fast. |
which is why i also made the comparison of the ARM7 GBA to ARM7 DS. its the same CPU, clocked different. btw: the GBC vs GB was the same way (the GBC is 8mhz z80, the GB is 4mhz z80)
_________________
-=- Darkain Dragoon -=-
http://www.darkain.com
DarkStar for Nintendo DS
#37690 - Sebbo - Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:57 am
mayb it emulates the GC part...its gonna b a PPC CPU, which means its a RISC, and its been hinted that nintendo might b dropping in a customised G4 or G5
i'm wondering how the backwards compatability is gonna work controller-wise, since the Revolution won't have a d-pad or a and b buttons...mayb it'll use wireless controllers like the wavebird and u'll still b able to use the wavebird with it
#37696 - tepples - Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:08 am
| dagamer34 wrote: |
| The thing is that console/portable hardware is strictly designed with one chip in mind with little to no error. The actually depend on the clock speed of the chip itself. In the case of DOOM PC's today, the thing is that DOOM, as far as I know, doesn't run specifically for one clock speed. Doom is capped at running 60fps or so, so it really doesn't matter how fast your CPU is. Console/hardware games are intermittantely dependant on the hardware itself. Running the CPU twice as fast on a console doesn't make the game run twice as fast. |
I don't know what you were trying to say, but console games do synchronize to vblank just as the Mode 13h PC games (e.g. Doom) did. If you hack an emulator for many consoles to use half or double the cycles per scanline, many games will often still run fine. This ratio tends to improve the further you get along in the development of consoles, with newer consoles' games being less dependent on clock speed than, say, Atari VCS 2600 games. To get the stragglers, the ones that depend intimately on the CPU speed, use a clock divider, as was used in the Game Boy Color to get DMG games working, as Darkain pointed out.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#37704 - dagamer34 - Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:07 am
| tepples wrote: |
| dagamer34 wrote: | | The thing is that console/portable hardware is strictly designed with one chip in mind with little to no error. The actually depend on the clock speed of the chip itself. In the case of DOOM PC's today, the thing is that DOOM, as far as I know, doesn't run specifically for one clock speed. Doom is capped at running 60fps or so, so it really doesn't matter how fast your CPU is. Console/hardware games are intermittantely dependant on the hardware itself. Running the CPU twice as fast on a console doesn't make the game run twice as fast. |
I don't know what you were trying to say, but console games do synchronize to vblank just as the Mode 13h PC games (e.g. Doom) did. If you hack an emulator for many consoles to use half or double the cycles per scanline, many games will often still run fine. This ratio tends to improve the further you get along in the development of consoles, with newer consoles' games being less dependent on clock speed than, say, Atari VCS 2600 games. To get the stragglers, the ones that depend intimately on the CPU speed, use a clock divider, as was used in the Game Boy Color to get DMG games working, as Darkain pointed out. |
Meh, I am bored and need something to write during Spring Break. Leave me alone. :)
_________________
Little kids and Playstation 2's don't mix. :(