#38363 - lambi1982 - Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:02 pm
I know this topic has been mentioned before, but I had to try it out and it is true. I found that the top screen is broadcasted to (or around ) channel 3 on an old tv. ( one that allows adjusting of the signal) and the bottom screen on channel 8. channel 3 is around 60-66 Mhz and i have not yet checked for channel 8.
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#38369 - darkfader - Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:31 pm
How can they be on different channels? The data for the displays are interleaved and probably have same timing. Too bad I don't have an old TV.
#38373 - lambi1982 - Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:48 pm
Im not sure how they are on different channels, but I keep trying all types of stuff and when you go to channel 6 you get both on top of each other. on the tv the picture is split most of the time, where the right side of the ds screen is on the left side of the tv. depending on how fast you tune up and down. you can get it some what in the middle.
I tried it atleased 50 times now, it works every time. I also got a GBA game to show ( I guess it doesnt make a difference) I will get pics and or video of it A.S.A.P
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#38374 - lambi1982 - Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:52 pm
#38424 - Mr. Picklesworth - Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:35 pm
Interesting...
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#38444 - Tadashi - Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:38 pm
Hi, i'm german and my dad brought me a US DS from his travel last year. (In the end i saved 30 euros in comparison to an european DS)
I also tried to get a tv signal from my DS, but without results. Then i took my old SNES antenna cable, wrapped it around the DS und plugged it into the tv.
I manually searched through the frequenzies and finally found a picture. It went away, when i shut off the DS. The picture looked like a shifted white frame, but i couldn't recognize any content from the DS. Maybe because i have a simple PAL-BG tv that can't process NTSC.
I later found out, that the tip of the cable was enough to receive the signal. The best and only receiving place was in back of the battery, at least for me.
I hope, that will help you :)
#38446 - lambi1982 - Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:00 am
it doesnt take much at all to get some type of image. you will need an antenna. well mine does, when you pull the DS away from the TV about 4-5 inchen from the antenna you will lose your picture. Yes, the back of the main board on the system gives the stongest signal.
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#38464 - Mike - Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:29 am
This is extremely odd.
Did Nintendo experiment with wireless connections to a TV as a user-selectable alternative to the TFTs? Only to dump it later for obvious reasons while accidentally leaving part of the original hardware designs in place?
Or is The Big N setting up a sinister demographic-polling scheme designed to provide enough information on the average gamer to conceive an apt world domination plot using our country's finest as mind-controlled pupets killing for the sheer promise of being allowed to play their favorite games as a reward?
I fear it may be the latter...
:p
#38466 - TJ - Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:32 am
Uh...it's just interference.
#38470 - slurrey - Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:56 am
Pretty interesting interference. Perhaps nintendo intends to release an adapter for the DS which takes the video signal from it and converts it to something the TV can see normally.
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#38472 - tepples - Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:30 am
More likely is that Nintendo just got a good deal on semi-NTSC-compatible screens that were originally intended for portable TVs (e.g. Sony Watchman) once the FCC announced a DTV transition that would have a side effect of banning portable TVs.
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#38474 - detroit - Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:54 am
actually, two things.... nintendo isn't shopping for screens on cheap street.
secondly, i think it's against the law to make something that causes tv interferance like that... they could almost get in trouble with fcc. not sure.
#38475 - TJ - Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:21 am
Every device makes some form of interference.
All the FCC does is make sure it is within an acceptable range so that it doesn't make other devices malfunction.
Causing a scrambled picture when located 4 inches from a TV antenna is well within the acceptable region for unwanted interference.
#38506 - The V Man - Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:37 pm
| slurrey wrote: |
| Pretty interesting interference. Perhaps nintendo intends to release an adapter for the DS which takes the video signal from it and converts it to something the TV can see normally. |
Actually they had a few of these adapters when they were demoing the DS way back when. I can't remember which show it was (wasn't E3), but it was very close to release day.
Anyway, the cable plugged into the back of the DS, was a bright blue (incase you can locate pictures), and can be seen on some of the movies that were on GameSpot. The video out was then projected onto a large screen behind the presenter. I think it was most visible for the demos of Spider-Man 2 and The Urbz, os see if there's videos for those on GameSpot.
I think one of the gaming sites asked them about the adapters but they said they weren't for sale and interal use only, so I'd doubt if we'll see any official ones.
#38512 - DooBeDoo - Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:14 pm
Probably one of the official DS capture devices (released to licensed reviewers, developers etc).
I also can't really understand how the DS can create an interference of this type just be coincidense... maybe it was intended at one point during development.
#38513 - The V Man - Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:31 pm
I'd really doubt that it would be intended as the FCC wouldn't allow anything like that in the compliance certifiaction of the device.
It is more than likely that it's an unintended sideffect of the unit, that is pretty understandable. If you think about how electricity carries the signals around your DS and your TV, then it is possible that if they're broadcasting (even to their own screen) on a channel the other broadcasts on (in this case, channel 3) then you will see at least some of image on a low grade television, providing you get close enough.
#38533 - lambi1982 - Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:09 pm
See, I understand most will say it is interference, but from what I have learned, it would most likely be in a form of a static image ( like noise). A television receives radio wave signals to cause the picture tube to draw an image, Not digital data. From every thing I have read, doesnt the DS operate with Digital data. The point I am trying to make is that LCDs do not use radio ways to operate, they use 1,0's (Binary)
(hey, I could be wrong) ;)
The whole (possible) add-on thing, is what I think it is.
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#38536 - Mike - Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:19 pm
Also note that in order to transmit video data to a TV, one must modulate the transmitted signal specifically for that to happen.
So the DS is using NTSC compatible signal modulation for some reason.
The problem must lie with the way the screens expect image data...
Perhaps someone will publish a hack one day which exploits this trait and allows for on-tv playing.
#38591 - ampz - Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:35 am
In order to display a color image on a TV using the antenna input, you need a normal greyscale scanline signal, and on top of that greyscale signal you must put a color carrier signal at 5-6MHz. That carrier must be phase modulated according to the color you want.
This is a "composite video signal".
In order to receive it on the antenna input of a TV, you need to produce a video carrier, and modulate this carrier with the composite video signal.
Greyscale ghost images on TVs can be caused by normal interference, But not color images.
66MHz happens to be the frequency of the main CPU, so that would explain why the image appears on channel 3. I can't explain the second image at channel 8.
#38646 - lambi1982 - Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:53 pm
no, 67Mhz is the CPU frequency, not 66Mhz.
And the images I have are black and white because the T.V. is BLACK & WHITE
I will try it on a color as soon as I get my DS on one ;)
P.s The image I am getting is not a Ghost, looks pretty solid to me, just not modulated correctly
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#38647 - darkfader - Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:58 pm
Screenshots anyone?
I did dream about getting a good picture on TV... but my dreams are meaningless anyway.
#38648 - lambi1982 - Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:03 pm
The best screen shots online are the ones I posted so far, havent seen any clearer but would like to.
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#38673 - TJ - Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:07 am
I have done it on a color TV, and it still shows up as B&W.
#38676 - tepples - Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:08 am
You'll get black-and-white even on an NTSC color TV because the DS signal's color subcarrier is at 5.583 MHz rather than the 3.580 MHz that an NTSC TV's color decoder expects.
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#38677 - ampz - Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:21 am
There IS a color subcarrier in the DS?!?
#38692 - tepples - Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:08 pm
There is a color subcarrier in the signal that drives any color LCD. The screen expects signals in red-green-blue or blue-green-red order; the frequency at which those colors repeat has very similar properties to an NTSC or PAL color subcarrier. Steve Wozniak points out that anyone who has programmed Apple II graphics will be able to see the similarity.
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#38738 - lambi1982 - Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:27 am
Tepples, Just a quick question to you. Is the 5.583Mhz The number, or is that a number for something close to it?
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#38743 - ampz - Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:26 am
The digital interface color LCDs I know of have separate digital input channels for red, green and blue.
#38766 - tepples - Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:16 pm
| lambi1982 wrote: |
| Is the 5.583Mhz The number, or is that a number for something close to it? |
The Nintendo DS LCD pixel clock rate is the ARM7 clock rate divided by 6 cycles per pixel. It may vary slightly from system to system.
As for separate channels for red, green, and blue, something had to fit through the system's hinge.
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#38771 - ampz - Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:49 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| lambi1982 wrote: | | Is the 5.583Mhz The number, or is that a number for something close to it? |
The Nintendo DS LCD pixel clock rate is the ARM7 clock rate divided by 6 cycles per pixel. It may vary slightly from system to system.
As for separate channels for red, green, and blue, something had to fit through the system's hinge. |
Regular flat foil cables fits through hinges...
#38806 - lambi1982 - Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:05 pm
I wasnt asking what went through the hinge, I wanted to know if the 5.5Mhz was the frequency for sure.
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#39673 - williamh85 - Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:06 am
Gamespots Burning Questions just had a question about this. They did not answer it directly but they did say "but we have a magical device, made by the gods themselves, that lets us get video from DS games."
#39680 - lambi1982 - Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:23 am
Question | Quote: |
| In each review of a PSP game, when the game clips are being shown, we can always see the fingers of you guys playing, while the DS, as I understand, can be connected to the CPU and the video can be direct...ermm...well, I hope you understood what I mean. Doesn't the PSP have that feature and do you think it ever will? |
Answer | Quote: |
| As of right now, there's no way for us to get direct-feed footage of PSP games, as the system itself has no "video out" function. The DS doesn't either, but we have a magical device, made by the gods themselves, that lets us get video from DS games. Right now, no such device is available to us for the PSP. Believe me when I say that there's little more we'd like right now than to have a solution to this, so don't worry, we're going to keep on it. Thanks for writing, and it's good to know they have DSL hookups in Latvian cornfields now. The next time someone tries to tell me broadband penetration is relatively small, I'll be sure to let them know about you and your cornfield hookup. -- A.N. |
I dont think they mean Over-the-Air direct feed, Im pretty sure they have the Bright blue box (devkit) for this one.
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