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DS development > Advice Needed On NDS 3D Models

#41710 - ChrisX2 - Sun May 01, 2005 1:38 pm

Hey im doing a remake of Goldeneye 007 for NDS
i have only just started and i have begun making 3d models.

how many polygons do you think i should use in a character model?
(they are all aimed to be modelled same as N64 but with nicer Textures)

thanks for your help
anyone who would like more information on this project should contact me:
chris_timps@hotmail.com
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#41711 - ChrisX2 - Sun May 01, 2005 1:42 pm

my current model im making is at 1106 polygons
would the DS be able to handle this?
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#41713 - Chetic - Sun May 01, 2005 2:03 pm

I don't think nicer textures is a very good idea..

All I can say is, try it out..
Put the model in an app and then render maybe 10-20 copies of it and see how well it does :)

#41714 - ChrisX2 - Sun May 01, 2005 2:07 pm

ok good idea
i will post wot i get
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#41715 - FeaRog - Sun May 01, 2005 2:15 pm

Texture resolution won't need to be terribly high on the DS as the screen resolution is quite low. 128*128 should be plenty. I'd suggest to aim for a max of 800 polygons for characters that would feature very prominently, more like 500 for goons.

I don't think anyones really tried pushing the limits yet, so everything is guesswork at the moment!

Good luck :)

#41716 - ChrisX2 - Sun May 01, 2005 2:25 pm

thanks for suggestions!
im a bit of a n00b with this low poly modelling!
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#41717 - ChrisX2 - Sun May 01, 2005 2:35 pm

oh and another thing
is C or C++ anything like PHP
because im fluent in PHP!
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#41718 - chrissieboy - Sun May 01, 2005 2:36 pm

Can i ask you something, how do you import your own models? Because i got a .3ds models. But do you have a special code to import it in your main.cpp?

#41719 - ChrisX2 - Sun May 01, 2005 2:42 pm

hey same here
im using 3ds max 8.0
all i got is a load of guns,objects and a few characters modelled
i guess ur going to have to write a tool / wait for one to convert to a NDS readable format
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#41722 - AT - Sun May 01, 2005 2:57 pm

I only know PHP, but C/C++'s syntax looks a lot like it, from what i've seen...

#41723 - Ben - Sun May 01, 2005 3:16 pm

Well good luck with this :)

It'd be awesome if you managed to replicate the facility level. Programming the AI might be pretty tricky though could well take you years. Maybe try and make a multiplayer game?

#41724 - DaBigJHall - Sun May 01, 2005 3:22 pm

Not sure if this will really help you guys, but anyway, a while ago djceejay over on GCDev.com wrote a MaxScript to export a model to a header file in this topic (down towards the bottom of the first page). He also showed some sample code to use it, but that was for libogc's GX library, and I don't know if it's even relatively similar to the 3D libs for the DS. Thought you guys might find it useful, though :).
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#41726 - ChrisX2 - Sun May 01, 2005 3:33 pm

Well heres a start to the models:
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p.s
thanks for all replys

HERES THE ORGINAL WEAPON!!
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#41729 - Fox5 - Sun May 01, 2005 3:43 pm

FeaRog wrote:
Texture resolution won't need to be terribly high on the DS as the screen resolution is quite low. 128*128 should be plenty. I'd suggest to aim for a max of 800 polygons for characters that would feature very prominently, more like 500 for goons.

I don't think anyones really tried pushing the limits yet, so everything is guesswork at the moment!

Good luck :)


I think 128x128 is much higher than what Goldeneye on n64 used.

#41730 - ChrisX2 - Sun May 01, 2005 3:52 pm

yup DS should be able to handle this
i think i will test everything works in the Q2 engine!
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#41737 - ChrisX2 - Sun May 01, 2005 4:38 pm

Hey Ive Made Another Weapon This Time Its The ZMG
the model looks better than preddescor but textures arent too good!

NEW VERSION:
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ORGINAL VERSION:
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#41745 - ChrisX2 - Sun May 01, 2005 5:23 pm

Heres the new US AR33 Rifle:

NEW VERSION:
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ORGINAL VERSION:
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#41746 - DaBigJHall - Sun May 01, 2005 5:25 pm

Wow, these models are looking really great! I realize it's a long way off, but I would love to have Goldeneye on my DS :)
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#41748 - Ethos - Sun May 01, 2005 5:32 pm

FeaRog wrote:
Texture resolution won't need to be terribly high on the DS as the screen resolution is quite low. 128*128 should be plenty. I'd suggest to aim for a max of 800 polygons for characters that would feature very prominently, more like 500 for goons.

I don't think anyones really tried pushing the limits yet, so everything is guesswork at the moment!

Good luck :)


I hit the limit and had to reduce the poly count on my pieces :(
Just cut down the loops and stacks in my shapes :)

#41750 - AdamtehGreat - Sun May 01, 2005 5:36 pm

hehe, I think you mean 3dsMax 7 man ;)

Anyone know if Goldeneye used the same technique Counter-strike uses? (1 hi poly gun for the player + hand / low poly weapons for enemy characters)

models look nice man. How big are the textures?

#41751 - ChrisX2 - Sun May 01, 2005 5:37 pm

thanks guys!
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#41764 - TheChuckster - Sun May 01, 2005 7:10 pm

I suppose this could be thrown together quickly as well if somebody ported the Quake 2 engine to the DS.

#41781 - Fox5 - Sun May 01, 2005 9:34 pm

TheChuckster wrote:
I suppose this could be thrown together quickly as well if somebody ported the Quake 2 engine to the DS.


Would that even be possible? I don't think dreamcast even had a full speed port of quake 2 and it's a more powerful system, or is the 3d hardware of the DS better understood?
That it'd be quite a mod to go from quake 2 to goldeneye.

The quake 1 engine would probably be an easy port though.(at least in terms of performance)

#41785 - ChrisX2 - Sun May 01, 2005 10:01 pm

trust me it is possible
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#41794 - tepples - Sun May 01, 2005 11:49 pm

Fox5 wrote:
I don't think dreamcast even had a full speed port of quake 2

You're right. Dreamcast only had Quake 3 ;-)
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#41797 - mike260 - Mon May 02, 2005 12:02 am

FeaRog wrote:
Texture resolution won't need to be terribly high on the DS as the screen resolution is quite low. 128*128 should be plenty. I'd suggest to aim for a max of 800 polygons for characters that would feature very prominently, more like 500 for goons.

I don't think anyones really tried pushing the limits yet, so everything is guesswork at the moment!

Good luck :)


The limit *appears* to be 2048 polys. Yes, really. However, this isn't quite as bad as it seems - backface-culled polys don't count towards this limit, and I *think* a quad counts as a single poly. So you could probably get the equivalent of around 6000 triangles onscreen.

#41807 - Fox5 - Mon May 02, 2005 1:00 am

tepples wrote:
Fox5 wrote:
I don't think dreamcast even had a full speed port of quake 2

You're right. Dreamcast only had Quake 3 ;-)


I mean in the homebrew scene.
There was a port of quake 2, but I don't think it ran well, and the 200mhz SH-4 of the dreamcast minus 3d acceleration probably had more power than the 66mhz arm 9 of the DS minus 3d acceleration.

#41810 - The 9th Sage - Mon May 02, 2005 1:42 am

Ben wrote:
Well good luck with this :)

It'd be awesome if you managed to replicate the facility level. Programming the AI might be pretty tricky though could well take you years. Maybe try and make a multiplayer game?


Oh yes...that would be awesome. My brother and I used to play GoldenEye, with remote mines, in the Facility all the time.
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#41813 - Eclipse - Mon May 02, 2005 3:24 am

mike260 wrote:

The limit *appears* to be 2048 polys. Yes, really. However, this isn't quite as bad as it seems - backface-culled polys don't count towards this limit, and I *think* a quad counts as a single poly. So you could probably get the equivalent of around 6000 triangles onscreen.


Any proof behind this? I want to start making some 3d models for a DS game i Have planned and I REALLY need to know the maximum polys it can push and the most textures it can push. Sooooo I guess like it's optimal proformance....like 2500 polys with 40 64x64 textures, or something like that , just please...let me know :).

#41814 - Ethos - Mon May 02, 2005 3:25 am

mike260 wrote:
The limit *appears* to be 2048 polys. Yes, really. However, this isn't quite as bad as it seems - backface-culled polys don't count towards this limit, and I *think* a quad counts as a single poly. So you could probably get the equivalent of around 6000 triangles onscreen.


Sounds about right, it cut out with (64+64)x16 pieces (with a random number showing depending on my angle). That is including my quads in the count :)

#41819 - Eclipse - Mon May 02, 2005 4:17 am

Ethos wrote:
Sounds about right, it cut out with (64+64)x16 pieces (with a random number showing depending on my angle). That is including my quads in the count :)


I'm confused, does this mean you are saying the DS can run 2048 tris on screen with 16 64x64 textures at 60fps? If so, is this the highest you have been able to make it go without lag? Any information on this would be fantastic.

Oh, and ChrisX2, be careful with this project as it will more then likely be silenced if you get too far =\.

#41842 - Ben - Mon May 02, 2005 12:06 pm

Quake1 has been ported to GP32 - http://sourceforge.net/projects/gpquake

They both have Arm9 don't they? With the added 3d hardware in the DS does anyone reckon this would have a chance of running well on the DS?

#41852 - Ethos - Mon May 02, 2005 1:59 pm

nope, i'm just saying how many total polys I could get in my view.

(64+64)x16 = 2048, which are all quads/tris with a 60square or 120sq px texture.

As for 60fps....no way with that many polys :)