#42511 - Darkain - Thu May 12, 2005 8:29 am
[Images not permitted - Click here to view it] (DeviantArt Link)
This is just one of the many example images drawn using dsPaint, an application included with DarkStar. Check out the link below for downloads and more artwork!
http://ds.darkain.com/hack/
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http://www.darkain.com
DarkStar for Nintendo DS
#42515 - eld - Thu May 12, 2005 9:34 am
dspaint feeds my artistic needs on the train, it's lovely :)
#42522 - lambi1982 - Thu May 12, 2005 2:53 pm
Darkstar is awesome! just add a media player and web browser and it is a perfect DS OS.
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#42525 - headspin - Thu May 12, 2005 3:49 pm
I'm just curious, but there are two types of touch screens right, so I'm wondering do some people have screens that work perfectly ok with DS Paint, and some that are not callobrated and the pen draws offset depending on it's position from the centre of the screen (which is what mine does). Or, does everyone have this problem and just say's "oh well, wait untill we fully suss out the touchpad and this will be fixed then", in which case - to my question - how does that girl draw those awesome pictures?
[I think I just figured out the answer.. she can draw to the edge of the screen therefore her touchpad must work ok with DS Paint?]
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Warhawk DS | Manic Miner: The Lost Levels | The Detective Game
#42526 - zazery - Thu May 12, 2005 4:01 pm
I'm having a few problems with touch screen calibration. The menu items are extremely hard to touch with the stylus. If I press lightly on the screen in dsPaint, then the lines will go everywhere with no precision. This might be a good way of fixing it. Thanks for the cool program.
#42541 - Darkain - Thu May 12, 2005 7:59 pm
zazery wrote: |
I'm having a few problems with touch screen calibration. The menu items are extremely hard to touch with the stylus. If I press lightly on the screen in dsPaint, then the lines will go everywhere with no precision. This might be a good way of fixing it. Thanks for the cool program. |
and if you saw, i commented on that thread long ago explaining why it DOESNT work (i used to use that very same pressure code, and it made things WORSE)
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http://www.darkain.com
DarkStar for Nintendo DS
#42543 - Darkain - Thu May 12, 2005 8:12 pm
headspin wrote: |
I'm just curious, but there are two types of touch screens right, so I'm wondering do some people have screens that work perfectly ok with DS Paint, and some that are not callobrated and the pen draws offset depending on it's position from the centre of the screen (which is what mine does). Or, does everyone have this problem and just say's "oh well, wait untill we fully suss out the touchpad and this will be fixed then", in which case - to my question - how does that girl draw those awesome pictures?
[I think I just figured out the answer.. she can draw to the edge of the screen therefore her touchpad must work ok with DS Paint?] |
have you ever ran thru the calibration process on your DS? if not, things are gonna suck. everything right now asumes you do. the code i came up with asumes a 32x32 pixel offset from each corner, which is how the calibration data is stored, however, if you never calibrate, the default values are 16x16px in from each border... it gets all funktified that way
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-=- Darkain Dragoon -=-
http://www.darkain.com
DarkStar for Nintendo DS
#42544 - headspin - Thu May 12, 2005 8:31 pm
Oh cool, calibrated and it works fine now. I love DSPaint, needs a "clear" button next to undo though :)
Wierd sample at the start, where is that from?
Keep it up!!
EDIT: could I make another suggestion? Next to undo, you need "clear", but also next to that, just the main primary colors.. or perhaps you could select a row of colors, or a custom palette so it's on the actual drawing screen on the top. That way, you can draw quickly like I like to, without having to swap screens to change color.
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Warhawk DS | Manic Miner: The Lost Levels | The Detective Game
#42545 - lambi1982 - Thu May 12, 2005 8:49 pm
the touch pressure really could use some help. when a light pressure is applied the line jump, try to get it like pictochat, besides that it works awesome.
now if you could get it to draw in x, y, z and be able to rotate in 3D ;)
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#42546 - Darkain - Thu May 12, 2005 9:09 pm
all of these "get the touch screen" comments are really REALLY starting to annoy me, just so you all know. it seems like thats about all ive heard for the past month or so since i started working on this. you think i dont know that its horribly messed up? if you want it working better, my touch code is in ndslib now, you go fix it.
the pressure idea is nothing new to any of us. it was a good theory since day 1. natrium implemented it, and then gave me the code and i implemented it, but it made things worse off over-all, and turned out to be inconsistant. so, until someone can tell me what Z1/Z2 does, i want no more bitching about touch screen being random.
(i would just like to note: this is a problem with ALL current demos, not just mine. mine is just most noticable because of the paint app)
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-=- Darkain Dragoon -=-
http://www.darkain.com
DarkStar for Nintendo DS
#42547 - headspin - Thu May 12, 2005 9:14 pm
My problem is, when switching the paint controls to the top screen I would start using the pen on it :O
I felt dumb from doing that, and probably scratched the screen hehe
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Warhawk DS | Manic Miner: The Lost Levels | The Detective Game
#42549 - captainsoup - Thu May 12, 2005 9:46 pm
Since the two touch screens are made by different manufacturers, maybe we shouldn't be treating them as being functionally identical? Rather than trying to figure out how to make them both work with just the pressure variables, we should be looking for a hardware identification bit somewhere and writing two seperate handlers.
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#42558 - Lynx - Thu May 12, 2005 10:35 pm
Darkain.. what's the deal with the touch code? Oh.. and I get these random shooting lines as well..
:D
#42567 - lambi1982 - Thu May 12, 2005 11:54 pm
Darkain I LOVE YOU ;)
Is that better, hey I love your program. It really is one of the best thing I have had on the DS and I own almost all the games. I am especially excited that I can actually play against the computer on tic-tac-toe.
just a few questions;
1. Is there any way to move the menu bar to the bottom and make the background look like Windows, so it looks the the OS with a start menu?
2. How many apps are you able to add to the menu?
3. can you have it setup to be able to change backgrounds by adding a file to the flash cart ( like on the GBA media player) ?
4. Holy SH*T I just now noticed the sound when you start-up DARKSTAR sooooooo awesome ( is that you?) I had no clue there were sounds, my volume has been down this whole time, stupid me
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Who, Me?
#42568 - Darkain - Fri May 13, 2005 12:03 am
lambi1982 wrote: |
just a few questions; |
1) no. things are statically coded to asume the menu is always on the top of the two screens. i dont WANT it to be like windows with a "start" bar..
2) the apps menu is dynamically generated.. altho, there isnt menu scrolling yet. so possibly as many as will fit on screen is the current limit.
3) when i get a decent filesystem going for DarkStar, background, and probably the whole UI will be external of the app itself, as to support full customization.
4) yes, there is sound. no, that voice isnt mine. that startup sound is there more or less for the people that know me personally, and know the things in life i like. ;)
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-=- Darkain Dragoon -=-
http://www.darkain.com
DarkStar for Nintendo DS
#42575 - tepples - Fri May 13, 2005 2:14 am
What happens if you delay a frame or two before accepting coordinates from the touch screen? Would that solve the shooting lines problem?
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#42576 - Darkain - Fri May 13, 2005 2:32 am
tepples wrote: |
What happens if you delay a frame or two before accepting coordinates from the touch screen? Would that solve the shooting lines problem? |
what would delaying it accomplish? lagged random lines? not too helpful.
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-=- Darkain Dragoon -=-
http://www.darkain.com
DarkStar for Nintendo DS
#42579 - ecurtz - Fri May 13, 2005 3:29 am
Darkain wrote: |
what would delaying it accomplish? lagged random lines? not too helpful. |
You can use the delay to "debounce" the data by throwing out readings that don't make sense (travel a long distance from the last point and then snap back, or move faster than would be used while drawing.)
#42580 - tepples - Fri May 13, 2005 3:31 am
Darkain wrote: |
what would delaying it accomplish? lagged random lines? not too helpful. |
The random lines are most likely to be from the first frame or two that the pen is down, so if you don't read a coordinate from the first frame that you recognize that the pen is down, then the random line might not appear.
Or whenever the pen goes down, only start returning coordinates once the last two readings were within n pixels of each other.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#42582 - headspin - Fri May 13, 2005 6:01 am
If you don't want people to comment on your app then why make a post about it?
_________________
Warhawk DS | Manic Miner: The Lost Levels | The Detective Game
#42584 - Darkain - Fri May 13, 2005 6:24 am
tepples wrote: |
Darkain wrote: | what would delaying it accomplish? lagged random lines? not too helpful. |
The random lines are most likely to be from the first frame or two that the pen is down, so if you don't read a coordinate from the first frame that you recognize that the pen is down, then the random line might not appear.
Or whenever the pen goes down, only start returning coordinates once the last two readings were within n pixels of each other. |
no, its completely random which ones are good and which arent. a smoothing algorithm is what ive had in mind, but havnt implemented it yet (something similar to how mouse smoothing works in modern desktop FPSs)
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-=- Darkain Dragoon -=-
http://www.darkain.com
DarkStar for Nintendo DS
#42585 - Darkain - Fri May 13, 2005 6:28 am
headspin wrote: |
If you don't want people to comment on your app then why make a post about it? |
i want comments, but not the same complaint over and over again. and its even more annoying when someone links to another post and says its a "possible fix" without bothering to check that ive already said why it doesnt work on the very thead they linked to. its known that the touch screen code sucks right now. *EVERY* demo out there right now suffers from the same problems, its common knowledge. we dont need people comming in and posting on each individual "release" post to complain about the exact same thing, when we already have general threads which are dedicated to said topic.
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-=- Darkain Dragoon -=-
http://www.darkain.com
DarkStar for Nintendo DS
#42588 - Darkwind_776 - Fri May 13, 2005 6:45 am
Pretty neat, keep up the good work!
Last edited by Darkwind_776 on Fri May 13, 2005 7:01 am; edited 1 time in total
#42590 - FourScience - Fri May 13, 2005 7:01 am
Darkain wrote: |
no, that voice isnt mine. that startup sound is there more or less for the people that know me personally, and know the things in life i like. ;) |
Was the startup audio from Serial Experiments Lain? I haven't watched it in ages, but it came to mind when I heard, "Present day...present time! Hahahaha...."
A quick review:
I don't care for DS-Paint but it looks great.
DS-Mines was well done. I would like to have a "clear surrounding tiles command", potentially by selecting a tile while holding a trigger button. I have a hard time telling whether the Flag button is on or off, so that could be changed to be more obvious. Excellent flip/dual screen!
Checks Out is a nice puzzle game, is this a clone of something else?
Great stuff!
#42612 - Pacifist - Fri May 13, 2005 3:21 pm
If you want to know exactly what Z1 and Z2 are here is TI's tech doc for the touchscreen.
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/lit/getliterature.tsp?genericPartNumber=tsc2046&fileType=pdf
(pg. 14)
Unfortunately the Z1 and Z2 definition is in the form of circuit diagrams. Which as a lowly code-monkey I do not understand.
They DO have a formula for pressure which I can only assume Natrium used to build his formula. His is basically the same but without the "resistance across the X-plate".
And sorry for the repetetive nature of this post.
#42614 - lambi1982 - Fri May 13, 2005 3:55 pm
just a thought, when looking in debug mode the touch screen seems to go nuts when touch z is at or above 0000004a. any way of making the ignore a touch that light because 0000003f and below are more than enough without being too harsh on the screen..
just a thought and maybe one you already had ;)
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#42619 - captainsoup - Fri May 13, 2005 4:23 pm
Ah hah! I wish I weren't at work so I could play with this information!
Ignore the circuit diagrams -- the important part is equation #3 on page 14.
Rtouch = Rx-plate * X-position/4096 * (Z2/Z1 - 1)
The x-plate resistance is just a constant (and hopefully constant across all DS's), so it can be ignored. If it isn't, I would assume that information would be stored in the same place the calibration data is.
f32 Rtouch = IPC->touchX * (((IPC->touchZ2 << 16) / IPC->touchZ1) - 1<<16);
That should create some data that's usable. Just throw out the touch hits that don't have a high enough Rtouch and suddenly all our random data should disappear (hopefully).
Actually, now that I think about it, it might be possible to figure out the touch screen x and y resistances by using both of the formulas given.
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--Captain Soup
#42622 - BlueboyX - Fri May 13, 2005 4:47 pm
Great find Pacifist!
Page 12 seems to explain the source of the 'noise.' I bet that Nintendo is using a capacitor like TI recommends to filter noise from the rest of the DS but leaves the handling of timing errors it causes in analogue -> digital conversion to software. 'Option 2' looks infeasable as far as battery life is concerned.
I don't know yet about 'Option 1' or 'Option 3' - if Nintendo is using one of these than using something like captainsoup mentions may be all we need.
As an aside, we now know that anything that causes the system to generate more noise or messes with the capacitors will cause the touchscreen to get funky... I guess that most people already know not to leave their DS in the car in direct sunlight. :P I am thinking that you will probably see touchscreen problems in responce to heat etc. before most other systems start failing.
OTOH, maybe I don't know what i am talking about. :P
In any case, this is great info! (and apparently not bound by non-disclosure agreement)
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#42630 - Pacifist - Fri May 13, 2005 5:50 pm
Quote: |
The x-plate resistance is just a constant (and hopefully constant across all DS's)
|
which it apparently is not because different DSs give different values to this formula (which is why Darkain doesn't use it).
I think it's more likely the Z1 and Z2 values themselves are going to differ from DS to DS. Much like raw X, Y values do.
although note I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.
#42661 - Darkain - Fri May 13, 2005 9:10 pm
as ive stated a number of times, the current pressure method does *NOT* work reliably. between my two DS units, i get a good range of 0x20 to 0x30 on one, and around 0x60 to 0x70 on the other.
as for these other calculations? i havnt been able to get a single one to work reliably yet on a single DS. the current algorith provided by natrium is still the most accurate for within a single unit, however, i think there is a peice of the puzzle we are missing somewhere.
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-=- Darkain Dragoon -=-
http://www.darkain.com
DarkStar for Nintendo DS
#42670 - Abcd1234 - Fri May 13, 2005 10:12 pm
Darkain wrote: |
i think there is a peice of the puzzle we are missing somewhere. |
There must be, otherwise Twisted would be pretty frustrating for a lot of people. :)