#45359 - Digeraticus - Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:26 pm
I understand the ARM assembly and detailed topics like digital logic and object oriented programming just fine. But the designs that make up Unix make absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. Maybe they may have made sense in a certain context way back when, but they don?t for a modern OS user like me. For heaven?s sake, please make a devkitARM template for XCode, so OS X can handle all that Unix crap FOR me (like it was designed to do), and so I can get to compiling. :P
#45366 - crossraleigh - Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:34 am
Typing make isn't harder than clicking Build if you ask me. Integrate it into Xcode yourself.
#45378 - jstart - Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:32 am
I have made many xcode templates and other mac stuff available here
http://dsosx.blogspot.com
Ususually the xcode templates mess up
Its way easier to type make in terminal
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#45425 - Digeraticus - Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:04 pm
Have you considered that maybe you didn?t make the templates properly? Or with the right configuration options?
#45428 - jstart - Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:19 pm
Maybe but i just gave up because i didn't really care
If you can see on my blog it does a working build bu then it doesn't clean
and it messes up the whole project so i don't use them
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#45437 - Digeraticus - Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:09 pm
Oh, I see. So basicly, you did it to shut up all the people who aren?t ?hardcore? enough to do it your way. I see. If it?s unfinished, you should say it?s unfinished, instead of talking about it like it?s a final, useable release.
I?ll be trying to figure out how to work-over your template into a good one, but I don?t know how far I?ll get with it. This is the only site so far that I?ve seen talk about how they made their template, and I don?t much understand it...
http://www.surtec.com/~rj/Xcode-FreePascal/
Might be nice to use Pascal on a modern compiler. Really good at tiny data structures.
Technically speaking, though, shouldn?t it be a devkitARM template, with GBA, NDS, PSP, and GP32 all being targets available through that template?
#45448 - Digeraticus - Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:07 pm
There?s a utility here that I?ve found that seems intended to do approximately what we want it to (cross-compiling notwithstanding).
http://www.spectralclass.com/opensource.html
Take a look; maybe you can build a better template with that, since you?ve managed to go half-way yourself.
#45449 - sajiimori - Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:12 pm
Nice attitude there, pal. Why don't you take it elsewhere?
#45453 - maniacdevnull - Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:19 pm
So, let me get this straight Digeraticus, you're finding it too difficult to use a Mac? You poor thing...
Welcome to Homebrew. If you need a tool, write it yourself. Don't pout and moan about how much you want it, or how easy it would be for someone else to do it. Get your ass in gear and DIY.
#45456 - Digeraticus - Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:03 pm
I?m not finding it too dificult to use a Mac. I?m finding it difficult to find information about the XCode templates. And I?m also presenting anything I can find on the matter. If he would do the same, maybe we can finish this template business up and get some compiling done.
I am also finding it difficult to use Unix. Mostly, because it was created with design concepts that have been outmoded several generations over. Maybe they made sense back in the day, but they sure don?t now... I mean, having a command line is one thing. *following line edited due to pointless spell-check request But you should still have a GOOD one, not some archaic piece of garbage. :P
Last edited by Digeraticus on Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:34 am; edited 1 time in total
#45458 - maniacdevnull - Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:14 pm
| Digeraticus wrote: |
| I mean, having a command line is one thing. But you should still have a GOOD one, not some archaic piece of garpage. :P |
BLASPHEMY!
/me throws holy water at Digeraticus
The Unix CLI is one of the most useful interfaces ever designed. I'll grant you that it is less user-friendly than a GUI, but in terms of what you can do with it, CLI is far superior. Try using a GUI on a remote system via 300baud modem. Or, even better, try to develop a GUI for the blind. CLI is far more versitile than any GUI on any system. Not to mention the fact that, despite it's age, the Unix-style CLI survives even today to the point that users from the birth of Unix would still recognize it and be able to use the system. Not eveyone feels that it is necessary to change everything with each point release.
Give the CLI a shot. Worst case scenerio, you might learn something.
And to your point about jstart sharing what he knows, it doesn't seem like getting Xcode to work is a priority to him. Perhaps individuals have priorities that differ from your own?
#45461 - Ethos - Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:04 pm
| Digeraticus wrote: |
| not some archaic piece of garpage. :P |
btw, what is garpage? :P
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#45465 - jstart - Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:52 pm
Hey if you care that much I can send you what I have and help you with any questions you've got it's just that I like command line and its easier for me
I like xcode but not enough to take time to make a completely working template
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#45505 - Digeraticus - Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:49 am
I am not saying that CLIs are bad, I am saying that Unix has a BAD CLI.
Any CLI that uses a text character as anything but a text-character qualifies as a bad CLI in my book. Text is not meant to be used for anything other than text!
And despite Unix supporting spaces in file names, trying to properly deal with a file path that has file names with spaces in it is insane, particularly because different Unix programs expect different treatment of names with spaces.
Many fundamental Unix programs are so old, they depend on certain information being in certain folders or else they fail BADLY, and ultimately this mandates that a certain file structure be upheld, despite the purpose of this structure being outdated.
Unix file permissions are hopelessly inadequate.
I don?t even know how this one has survived this long; Unix decided that, for all systems, the most powerful user access on the machine will have the EXACT SAME LOGIN regardless of machine. Thus guaranteeing that AT LEAST HALF of the security protection of having a login screen in the first place is permanantly lost.
Now, if you grew up with Unix, then I guess you can forgive these faults; Unix has some very good points, including sweet, sweet power. But in a new, otherwise modern, Unix-unrelated OS, these faults would be UNFORGIVABLE. I was surprised, and not in the good way, that when we were going to inherit all of Unix?s good qualities, that we?d have to inherit its bad qualities too. I was looking forward to a good CLI. But I?m still only looking forward to it.
#45506 - Digeraticus - Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:57 am
I would be very pleased to receive anything you can give me about the template system.
My intentions are to be able to pick and choose between targets via XCode so that I could (at least theoretically) add NDS and PSP targets to a single project, in addition to making things like cross-platform libraries, single platform libraries, source and data files, and so on.
After looking at the template files, I don?t expect much right away (musta been done by a Unix programmer :P). Being able to make a GBA ROM template will probably tell me almost enough to be able to make the other templates.
I mailed the guy who makes that XTemplate utility, but he only barely knows what he?s doing, either. I think what we?re doing is a little off-track for him.
By the way, what makes devkitARM different from other gcc implementations that support ARM?
Oh, and have you tried SubEthaEdit?
#45521 - tepples - Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:42 pm
| Digeraticus wrote: |
| By the way, what makes devkitARM different from other gcc implementations that support ARM? |
For one thing, devkitARM comes with link scripts and startup code for popular handheld platforms using ARM (GP32, GBA, Nintendo DS).
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#45535 - jstart - Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:59 pm
Ok first off i'm 14 and not some brilliant unix or mac programmer
All i have done so far is make a xcode ds project and put it in the application support for xcode So when you say new project it comes up
and you can change/add source files and stuff
I'm not sure exactly what you want
SubEthaEdit is a cool program i have it
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-=Jstart=-
#45559 - wintermute - Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:31 am
Why are people voting no in this poll?
I've had a few people asking for things like this for the osx support. It surprises me that anyone doesn't want them enough to vote against such an addition.
#45562 - jstart - Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:07 am
don't know...
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#45568 - josath - Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:17 am
i don't have a mac so i don't need an xcode template?
maybe you should have asked "who uses a mac and xcode and would like an xcode nds template?" or something
#45569 - wintermute - Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:20 am
| josath wrote: |
i don't have a mac so i don't need an xcode template?
maybe you should have asked "who uses a mac and xcode and would like an xcode nds template?" or something |
I would have thought that would be fairly obvious. Voting no in a poll which has no relevance to your setup is pretty silly :P
#45573 - jstart - Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:59 am
Yah the question wasn't very specific
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#45577 - crossraleigh - Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:13 am
I use a Mac. I even use Xcode. I voted no in direct response to the question. I didn't "want a devkitARM template."
I don't use Xcode's built-in editor; I don't much use Xcode's New Project Assistant. Xcode opens Emacs for me and I compile my programs using the Emacs compile function, which I have bound to C-c-c.
#45579 - Digeraticus - Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:07 am
Well, jstart, now that I know how old you are, I feel like a bully for picking on you. :(
Anyway, the point is to be able to make the most typical compiling job setups easier by having a default setup for each kind. It should be easy to select which language, which output type (library, full program), and for which platform type (or types) we are compiling.
The goal is to use as much of XCode?s GUI to make decisions as we can.
I?ve got another link with more info on making templates, this time applying specifically to ARM. We should be able to use this...
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze35xda/xdev/index.html
#45585 - Digeraticus - Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:13 am
jstart, I?m not seeing a whole lot of similarity between what is suggested at the Pascal link and the Embedded ARM link to what you did. You may want to look at what they suggest and comment on it...