#54420 - PhoenixSoft - Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:56 am
Satoru Iwata has announced that Nintendo's online service will allow Revolution owners to download DS demo games and transfer them to their DS via WiFi. In my mind, this opens up two possibilities:
- Nintendo has announced an interest in somehow helping indie developers create games for the Revolution. This means there is also a chance of them letting homebrew developers submit games to be hosted on the Nintendo Online service (no cost to them, but having a ton of free games available will help sell the idea to consumers)
- The Revolution uses SD cards to store downloads. If the DS demos are stored on the card so they can be transferred again later, Nintendo is leaving an open door for us anyway :D
#54421 - Dwedit - Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:03 am
(Tepples posts the "Nintendo SD" pic in 5...4...3...2...1...)
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#54422 - cybereality - Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:14 am
That is a good sign, but I doubt Nintendo had indie developers in mind. First of all, Nintendo is notorious for having a tight quality assurance policy. Meaning that some commercial games were vetoed by TheBigN in the past, or forced revisions. It would be highly unlikely they would let just anyone upload games to their servers. Even though this may be useful to homebrewers, I dont see it giving us any advantage over the current tools available. Plus, why would you have to rip the demo if Nintendo was giving it out for free?
OT: The Revolution control is a real step forward. Kudos to Nintendo for actually bringing out something innovative.
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#54424 - PhoenixSoft - Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:28 am
I am not saying that they would let anyone upload a game to their servers. I am saying that people could submit the source to them so they can check for any security risks, they can check to ensure it works properly and is of decent quality, then they can add it to the server.
#54428 - juhees - Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:16 am
| PhoenixSoft wrote: |
| I am not saying that they would let anyone upload a game to their servers. I am saying that people could submit the source to them so they can check for any security risks, they can check to ensure it works properly and is of decent quality, then they can add it to the server. |
That _would_ cost Nintendo a lot of money to check these programs. For what? Kiddies playing all day long mp3 with a signed moon shell? Or playing all day long a homebrew Jump&Run? This way Nintendo would sell more DSes, but no more games (and they make good money with games, not the hardware). Plus people would see what the homebrew scene can do and more would risk to flash there DS or risk to invest some money to wifime/passme equipment. This would them take one step closer to being anle of using pirated games...
I see no advantage in allowing to download homebrew via Revolution. But i think it would make distributing homebrew easyer: you would only need a friend who can flash you DS, and no more extra hardware! You substitute wmb+win/(linux soon i hope)+ralink with a Revolution.
greetings
Juhees
#54430 - cybereality - Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:25 am
I agree that it would be awesome if Nintendo did this for us, I just doubt it. But crazier things have happened (like Sony releasing a Linux development kit for PS2). I watched the entire keynote by Satoru Iwata and he did hint at supporting smaller studios, so there is a possibility I guess. More likely someone will write a program for the DS that will download a demo via the internet (once the WiFi is cracked of course). This would be a much easier solution, albiet only for the homebrew community.
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// cybereality
#54438 - lambi1982 - Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:20 pm
Smaller studios would be small RELIABLE studios, not just some programmer in his/her bedroom writing code. To be a (Nintendo) developer Small or larger, you have to go through Nintendo first, I doubt they meant homebrewers.
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#54463 - Abscissa - Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:15 pm
DS demos? Ok, good. But what I'm REALLY hoping is that we can finally get actual demos for the non-portable systems. Erm, that is, without buying a $10 magazine with beta builds of a small handful of games. I honestly believe that is a MAJOR reason there's so many good games selling poorly (Like "Ico" and "Beyond Good and Evil") - ie, there's no "Try Before You Buy", but the price tag is $50-60.
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#54466 - cybereality - Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:34 pm
Actually, Abscissa, when ICO was released they included a demo with PSM magazine or PSUnderground (not sure). I just remember that one day there was just a free demo in my mailbox with the first level of ICO on it. I thought it was really cool, but I never bought the game. Why? Because I was broke at the time. Simple as that. So that is not the major reason that good games go unnoticed. The mainstream market always buys up crap licensed games and tried-and-true formulas. This is the same thing with music or movies. The masses just like crap, thats all there is to it. Also, there are demos released all the time for PS2/XBOX (mostly free, or maybe $10 for like 5 demos on a disc). If you are too cheap to pay $10 for a handful of demos and a magazine, then you obviously can't afford a $50 game to begin with. Oh, and you can "try before you buy." It's called Blockbuster, GameFly or your local rental shop. Sorry, but your argument really makes no sense.
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#54473 - Abscissa - Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:40 pm
| cybereality wrote: |
| The mainstream market always buys up crap licensed games and tried-and-true formulas. This is the same thing with music or movies. The masses just like crap, thats all there is to it. |
The success of crap games does NOT necessitate failure of good games. And of course the masses do like crap, but I'm arguing that that's NOT all there is to it - I'm saying that shit marketing (ie. lack of a *real* "Try Before You Buy") is also playing into it.
| cybereality wrote: |
Actually, Abscissa, when ICO was released they included a demo with PSM magazine or PSUnderground (not sure). I just remember that one day there was just a free demo in my mailbox with the first level of ICO on it.
...
Also, there are demos released all the time for PS2/XBOX (mostly free, or maybe $10 for like 5 demos on a disc). If you are too cheap to pay $10 for a handful of demos and a magazine, then you obviously can't afford a $50 game to begin with. Oh, and you can "try before you buy." It's called Blockbuster, GameFly or your local rental shop. Sorry, but your argument really makes no sense. |
Oh come on, you can't tell me you don't see the difference here. Look, consider this scenario:
Joe Gamer hears about Game X. It's $50 and he'll be damned if he's going to spend that kind of money HOPING he won't be disappointed. He'd learned his lesson about buying $15 CDs without listening to them so there's no chance in hell he'll take that chance on a $50 product. Like any intelligent consumer, he wants to try before he buys.
He goes to the in-store demo kiosks. Unfortunately, Game X isn't one of the games that Sony/MS/Nin/Best Buy/GameStop happens to be trying to push at the moment, so there's no in-store demo for Game X. (Heaven forbid game retailers work the way certain music retailers (FYE, iTunes) do and allow you to try ANYTHING in stock.)
So he goes home and looks for a demo on the internet. Obviously, the only demos he'll find there are for the PC version - IF there even IS a PC version - and after a few quick calculations he realizes it would cost him a few hundred dollars to get his PC up-to-spec to play it. So screw that idea.
Joe flips on his TV and sees that a movie he had been curious about is on. He watches the rest of it, and decides "Wow, that was great, I think I'll get it." He heads back to the mall, and listens to the radio on the way. While listening to the radio, he discovers one CD he wants to get and a couple he wants to stay away from. Now, at the mall, he thinks about the song on the radio and the movie on TV and realizes that no comparable thing exists for games.
He buys the movie and CD that he had already tried (tried for *free*), and decides to give the game one more chance. He looks at the official XBox and/or Playstaion magazine, but oh-no!, Game X just *happens* to not be on this month's disc. Yea, I know - HUGE surprise </sarcasm>. Of course, if he's looking for a magazine demo of a GameCube game, he's SOL to begin with.
He rules out GameFly, because he doesn't already subscribe, and he is intelligent enough to know signing up for a $14+/month service just to try one game would be financially shit-stupid. He goes to Blockbuster, but they don't have it. And he figures $6 for a rental is a damn rip-off anyway. Not to mention the fact that it's the ONLY DAMN THING IN THE WORLD you have to actually PAY to *cough* "Try before you buy". Even his car's test-drive was free, for fuck's sake.
At this point, Joe Gamer no longer gives a rat's ass about Game X, and Publisher X has lost yet another sale. Publisher X has too big of an ego to ever consider that "Oh, maybe we fucked up the marketing", so publisher and developer alike start bitching that "gamers just like the tried and true crap". Which is true because recycled crap is the only stuff that doesn't need try before you buy.
I'll say it again: Spending money = buying. Buying to try something is NOT "Try BEFORE You Buy". It's "BUY before you 'try before you buy'", which is a shit-stupid thing to do.
Spending money is NOT "Try before you buy" unless you live in a fucking asylum.
Seriously, think before you post these things.
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#54477 - TheMikaus - Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:24 pm
| Quote: |
| He rules out GameFly, because he doesn't already subscribe, and he is intelligent enough to know signing up for a $14+/month service just to try one game would be financially shit-stupid. He goes to Blockbuster, but they don't have it. And he figures $6 for a rental is a damn rip-off anyway. Not to mention the fact that it's the ONLY DAMN THING IN THE WORLD you have to actually PAY to *cough* "Try before you buy". |
If you plan on trying more than one game a month and maybe playing for longer than a couple minutes, it's not so bad. It's not free but it's better than sinking 50 bucks for a game you might not like or a game you might not like enough to buy.
Also some places (ma and pa type shops) usually let you try any game they have. You just have to find one. The other thing you could do is work part time at a Gamestop or Planet X (they let you try out games for free if you're employeed, or at least that's what I've heard)
I agree that it sucks that one has to rent or find a shop that lets you try it first, but I guess that's the way it'll have to be for a while.
And as for the movie argument. You can only see it on tv if it's been out for a while, otherwise you'll have to do the same thing you'd have to do with a video game, which is rent it.
Other than your previous argument examples I agree with you completly. Pay to try is just the way things are :(
I guess that's why there are game magazines that "review" them. But then you have to rely on other's opinions.
Sidenote: Not all things that are tried and true are crap. But maybe that was just an expression.
#54478 - Abscissa - Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:32 pm
| TheMikaus wrote: |
| Sidenote: Not all things that are tried and true are crap. But maybe that was just an expression. |
Heh, yea, in that specific instance I meant "crap" as in "stuff". ie "the tried and true stuff" ;)
Hmm, I also meant it as in "the subset of 'tried and true' games that also happen to be crap", though. I guess you could take it either way.
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#54480 - Abscissa - Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:40 pm
| TheMikaus wrote: |
| Other than your previous argument examples I agree with you completly. Pay to try is just the way things are :( |
Yea, it just really gets me how they have all of these roadblocks in the way of prospective customers trying their games, and then act surprised when nobody risks shelling out $50 on something different.
Another thing I think affects it is that the people who tend to like the different stuff, might also be people who are more likely to wait and find a cheap used copy.
I really think that bad marketing (not to be confused with advertising) is one of the mainstream game industry's biggest sources of probelms. The whole business side of games just seems to be incredibly backwards to me.
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#54483 - cybereality - Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Abscissa, I didn't want to start a flame, but I still don't see your point. I agree with you that there should be more demos of games. Just like every movie has a trailer, every game should have a demo. I also think that games should cost $20 and not $50 (but thats a whole other arguement). But I also think that rent should be free and there should be world peace. That don't mean it's gonna happen.
The bottomline is that you can find out if a game is good or not without playing it. That is what reviews are for. If you can't afford to buy a magazine, then go to IGN.com or GameSpot.com and read the reviews. Now dont start telling me that costs money cause you have to pay for the internet or some nonsense like that. That is the problem with todays culture. They expect everything RIGHT NOW and for FREE. Well the rest of the world doesn't work like Kazaa. Games today cost millions of dollars to produce, and these companies expect a return on their investment. If they gave out free demos every day, no one would bother buying games at all.
So really, what your arguement comes down to is that you're too cheap to pay $50 for a game; too cheap to pay $15 a month for unlimited rentals; and too cheap to pay $10 for a demo disc and a magazine with a review of the game. If you're that cheap then just bootleg the damn game and stop whining.
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// cybereality
#54494 - Abscissa - Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:58 pm
| cybereality wrote: |
| Abscissa, I didn't want to start a flame, but... |
Well, with the phrase "your argument makes no sense" at the end of a post packed with sarcasm, you did anyway. So congratulations.
| cybereality wrote: |
| but I still don't see your point. I agree with you that there should be more demos of games. Just like every movie has a trailer, every game should have a demo. I also think that games should cost $20 and not $50 (but thats a whole other arguement). But I also think that rent should be free and there should be world peace. That don't mean it's gonna happen. |
So I shouldn't even mention it just because it's unlikely to happen? THAT doesn't make any sense.
| cybereality wrote: |
| The bottomline is that you can find out if a game is good or not without playing it. That is what reviews are for. If you can't afford to buy a magazine, then go to IGN.com or GameSpot.com and read the reviews. |
In an artistic medium, the opinions of others is worth jack shit when it comes to determining whether or not you yourself would like it. I know there are people who DO trust the opinions of critics, but that doesn't mean it isn't a stupid thing to do.
| cybereality wrote: |
| Now dont start telling me that costs money cause you have to pay for the internet or some nonsense like that. That is the problem with todays culture. They expect everything RIGHT NOW and for FREE. |
Expecting "try before you buy" to not involve buying-to-try hardly qualifies as "expecting everything RIGHT NOW and for FREE". (Even as trendy as it is to toss around the "everyone wants everything right now and for free" phrase.)
| cybereality wrote: |
| Well the rest of the world doesn't work like Kazaa. |
If you think what I'm suggesting is equivalent, or even comparable, to Kazaa than you're clearly not paying a damn bit of attention to what I'm saying. Let me spell it out:
Buying a game you know you want: Normal
Buying without trying: Stupid
Paying for a demo: Stupid
| cybereality wrote: |
| Games today cost millions of dollars to produce, and these companies expect a return on their investment. If they gave out free demos every day, no one would bother buying games at all. |
That's a complete and total load of shit. And it's exactly the line of thinking that causes companies to place as many obstacles as they can between a customer and a sale, thus shooting themselves in the foot. It's a common business belief, but it's a stupid business belief.
Honestly, how can you possibly believe that the LESS people know about a product the MORE likely they are to buy it? If you're accustomed to spending $50 on things without knowing if they're any good then you're either a spoiled brat, or you're in massive debt.
Let me put it this way: If they gave out free demos every day, they might actually start getting some sales on the normally poor-selling non-generic games, because to the customer it would no longer be a $50 risk.
| cybereality wrote: |
| you're too cheap to pay $50 for a game; |
No, I'm just not filthy fucking rich enough to waste $50 on something that turns out to be crap.
| cybereality wrote: |
| too cheap to pay $15 a month for unlimited rentals; |
That has nothing to do with me. *I* would be perfectly willing to pay $15/month for unlimited rentals *if* I had the time and money to do so. In fact, I had subscribed to one of those services just a couple years ago. That's completely beside my point.
My point is that it's completely unreasonable to expect everyone to use such a service as a try before you buy, because not everyone who plays games has the time or the interest to invest in something like that. If you're only interested in one game, or you only occasionally have time to play, THEN it's a stupid way to go.
| cybereality wrote: |
| and too cheap to pay $10 for a demo disc |
It's A FUCKING DEMO!!! A DEMO! Why the heck should I pay for a DEMO? I bet car salesmen must love you - they can probably get you to pay them for a test drive.
Additionally, the demos are usually taken from beta builds. Now, that's obviously not a big deal from the consumer's perspective. But from the business's perspective, it's not exactly the best way to promote your product.
| cybereality wrote: |
| and a magazine with a review of the game. |
If I WANT the magazine than I'll buy it - and on occasion I do. But if I don't want the magazine, than it amounts to paying $10 for, as I said, a DEMO.
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Last edited by Abscissa on Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:21 am; edited 4 times in total
#54495 - tepples - Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:01 am
| cybereality wrote: |
| Oh, and you can "try before you buy." It's called Blockbuster, GameFly or your local rental shop. |
Blockbuster's online service rents only movies and not games. From the sign-up page:
| Quote: |
| BLOCKBUSTER Online Rentals may be any DVD movie available on www.blockbuster.com for rental as part of the BLOCKBUSTER Online service. |
| cybereality wrote: |
| GameFly or your local rental shop. |
GameFly isn't available in all geographic areas where forum.gbadev.org members live. From the sign-up page:
| Quote: |
| The GameFly service is available to new subscribers in the U.S. |
Which alternatives serve the rest of the world, such as Canada and the United Kingdom?
| cybereality wrote: |
| or your local rental shop. |
OK, what if the local video rental store refuses to carry a particular title despite customer requests? Heck, what if the local video store carries zero titles for a given platform?
| TheMikaus wrote: |
| The other thing you could do is work part time at a Gamestop or Planet X (they let you try out games for free if you're employeed, or at least that's what I've heard) |
"Sorry, we went with another candidate."
"Sorry, we're not hiring until the Christmas season."
"Sorry, because you have a four-year college degree, you're overqualified, even though your skills are exceptional and you have specified on your application that you're willing to work for minimum wage."
How can I get an interview for any job?
| cybereality wrote: |
| too cheap to pay $15 a month for unlimited rentals |
More like "too cheap to move to a geographic area that is serviced by one of the companies that charges $15 a month for unlimited rentals".
| cybereality wrote: |
| and too cheap to pay $10 for a demo disc and a magazine with a review of the game. |
This is a Nintendo-oriented board. Where are the magazines with demo discs for the GameCube, demo paks for GBA, or demo cards for Nintendo DS?
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#54510 - TheMikaus - Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:37 am
| Quote: |
"Sorry, we went with another candidate."
"Sorry, we're not hiring until the Christmas season."
"Sorry, because you have a four-year college degree, you're overqualified, even though your skills are exceptional and you have specified on your application that you're willing to work for minimum wage." |
hehe. That's the case with any job. (just like you said)
| Quote: |
Buying a game you know you want: Normal
Buying without trying: Stupid
Paying for a demo: Stupid
|
Buying without trying isn't always stupid it's more 50/50. Depends on the genre and what type of person you are. Again though that's an opinion of outweighing chances. I don't always know that I'll like a game when I buy it, but if I'm not satisfied I can give to someone who might, nothing wrong with being slightly charitable. (I still get your point, don't worry)
| Quote: |
| If they gave out free demos every day, no one would bother buying games at all. |
so basically what you're saying is, "If I let someone try the game, no one would buy it because it sucks." I don't know about you, but sometimes when I play a demo I think: "Damn, this game rocks, this story is great and I want to play more and see how the story goes. Time to go get the game" Not "Damn, this game rocks. This game rocks sooooo much that I'm not going to buy it just because." (Note: reasons like "I don't have the money" are 100 percent understandable :) )
The only slight agreeance I can grant you there is the idea that if the game didn't sell after the demos were distributed that they didn't break even on the demo creation costs (meaning the distribution and packaging, not the content (as the content can just come from the full game)).
And in a totally side tracked conversation:
| Quote: |
| I also think that games should cost $20 and not $50 |
yeah maybe if games didn't take over a year or two to make and artists, coders and businesses didn't need money to run. It'd be nice if they cost 20 dollars, but highly unrealistic. (edit) Especially in light of the living costs for the time of 1 year to 2 years for a whole staff of dev's.
Also. There's a difference between whining and stating a very valid opinion.
Either way. Abscissa is saying that trying a demo should be free and seeing as the PC games have gone that route and have been that way for sometime, there isn't much reason for the next-gen consoles to not follow suit.
Cybereality says it's cool to pay for demos and at the same time feels the need to attack people when they disagree. Abscissa never said that everything should be given right now and for free. Just said that things that are free in other areas of the same thing (PC) should be free where they are not (Consoles) and with the new consoles coming out with net-aware setups it's not too far of a stretch think that.
| Quote: |
| If you're that cheap then just bootleg the damn game and stop whining. |
Also. Just because someone doesn't want to drop 50 for a game they might not like or because they don't want to spend 10->20 just for a demo that should be free in the first place doesn't mean they don't want to support the company. Big difference in not wanting to pay for a tech/story demo and not wanting to support the company that could be making a kick ass game.
#54527 - Abscissa - Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:21 am
| TheMikaus wrote: |
| so basically what you're saying is, "If I let someone try the game, no one would buy it because it sucks." I don't know about you, but sometimes when I play a demo I think: "Damn, this game rocks, this story is great and I want to play more and see how the story goes. Time to go get the game" Not "Damn, this game rocks. This game rocks sooooo much that I'm not going to buy it just because." (Note: reasons like "I don't have the money" are 100 percent understandable :) ) |
That's exactly how I ended up buying PoP: Sands of Time. :)
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#54546 - cybereality - Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:38 am
Abscissa, Im sorry if my previous posts sounded like a personal attack. I did not mean to come off like that. Basically, I am just tired of hearing people acting like it is a god given right to get free stuff. Sure, I love free demos just as much as the next guy. But I wont expect to get a demo for every game for free. I'm happy with what I can get.
Also, we are not really on seperate sides of the arguement. I agree that you should be able to "try before you buy." I just dont expect that for free. I understand that a DVD costs money to manufacture. That they have to spend a lot of money to pay the artists, designers, programmers, producers, directors, animators, and what not. They paid people to make a custom demo build of the game while adding demos screens, redesigning the box art, distribute it, pay licensing fees, etc. The company probably has to pay just to get their game included in PSM magazine or whatever. All that stuff costs money. And while I dont agree with so-called "business ethics," I will accept the fact that that's the way it is.
Most of the time I buy used games anyway for like $20 or $30 and by that time I would have heard if the game sucked or not. I also keep up on all the reviews (not only mags but from friends, forums and amazon, etc.) so I will know if a product is worth my money. So buying a game without playing is not necessarily stupid. If you make an educated purchase you should be fine. Like if a new GTA comes out, I can expect the same quality from Rockstar as their past games. I liked their past games, and the reviews say that it is better, so I will buy it based on that. I dont need to play it first, I know what to expect. That is why many companies use the "tried-and-true" formula. Because they can accurately project their target market. Make projections based on past sales. And advertise specifically to the target market. I dont agree, but from a business standpoint it makes sense.
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#54551 - Defect - Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:53 am
I think all the points expressed here are good.
A magazine may score a game 97 out of 100 and show fantastic pictures and say its a "buy now!" title. But how many times have you read a review like that, then played a demo (that was released months after the full game shipped) and found you didnt like it at all. I know i've done it quite a few times.
I dont think game companies should feel the need to release demos, but from a buisness perspective, its the ultimate form of advertising.
I work in a grocery store and I see the reps from certain companies flogging off free samples on little stalls in the shop all the time. The amount of people that buy afterwards is very high, but do you think they would be prepared to pay for that taste?
#54637 - Alex Atkin UK - Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:43 am
This is an argument I have been having for years.
When I was a wee lad and the Amiga / Atari ST / SNES / Genesis were in it used to be a LOT easier to try games in-store. Over the years however companies have gotten bigger and less user friendly. Alas, at first they would always leave the pads unplugged most of the time and eventually they had no consoles to try on at all.
Ok, bring forwards to today and admittedly kiosks have come back, slowly but still most of the time the pads are unplugged so you still cant play. Ever tried playing on an in-store DS? The staff dont give a damn so they let little kids wreck the touchscreen and Nintendo made a BIG mistake of using metal stylus for the in-store kiosk instead of something that would break if jabbed hard enough to ruin the screen.
How about PSP? Well, they wont even risk putting that somewhere you can actually play on it. Theres just one hiding in a glass case.
Gamecube? Everyone has pretty much given up on it, havent seen a kiosk in years.
X-Box, geez its almost ALWAYS Halo 2 - no variety at all.
Overall, demos ARE the only way to go and thankfully Microsoft know this as they HAVE promised us downloadable demos from X-Box Live on the 360. It will be interesting to see of Sony do the same, hopefully Nintendo will.
But overall, the last few years have been terrible. All the magazines with demos have doubled in price and more often than not they have the same ones, far less variety plus the journalism is shite. I remember the Sega Saturn magazine was the last one that has good content AND demos. Nintendo magazines are good but too expensive still.
I remember back when the Sega Saturn was still alive, most of my games I own because I played them on demo or rental. Particularly Sonic 3D and NiGHTS I bought PURELY because I played them on rental, and I only rented NiGHTS because I saw it on a demo disk in video form. These days, nothing really attracts attention as all the games look the same to me. Can I really be bothered with Fifa 06 when I have Fifa 05, was 05 THAT MUCH better than the previous version. So many games are sooooo boring. And am I the only person who gets MEGA RSI from the Dualshock 2 controller? Everyone LOVES the dualshock 2 but I argue the analogs are a TERRIBLE angle for your thumbs and get painful very very fast, I LURV my Gamecube pad - so comfortable, even X-Box is a HUGE improvement over Sonys RSI inducing thing.
It seems ever since Sony got the masses onto gaming innovation has gone out the window. Sega used to come up with great games IMHO but since they have strugged to push multiplatform due to the failure of the Dreamcast they have, as expected, suffered. Heck, even Team17 have been pulled into making Worms in 3D, when the 2D game still has plenty of evolution to come from larger worlds, more interesting weapons. Worms was one of the most addictive games EVER and in 3D it plain sucks. I love fancy 3D, but only when it compliaments the gameplay not destroys it. For example Max Payne was fantastic as the gameplay was so clever, FPS rarely dare to do something interesting other than plan "see man/monster, shoot it, move onto next", but I digress.
I fine example of the brainwashing is that everyone I have shown the Revolution controller to has said "uuuuugh, thats horrible" without even bothering to find out how the controller actually works. Personally, I think its a true revolution in gaming as promised, they dare to be different and those of us who are willing to see that will surely benefit from its greatness - so long as it gets more support than the DS. (DS is lacking in games IMO)
To summarise:
More demos, less EA crap and more Revolution please!
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#54667 - M3d10n - Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:34 pm
Cybereality, NOBODY is saying that demo DVDs should be given away. They cost money to do, the magazine they come from cost money to do, and producing DVD demos for every single game would be absurd.
PC demos are free, and almost every PC game has a demo. Why? Because they can be distributed via downloads. Release a demo for your game, and soon it'll be mirrored everywhere. Two years later, people will still find the demo for download, so people can still try your game, like it, and maybe (try to) buy it, even if your game got no media coverage at all.
You don't need so live in the right areas of the world, find and subscribe to the right services or generally spend a lot of time to check out a PC game you only heard the name. Heck, you can even check random games once in a while and find some games that you like, but you never heard about.
With the next generation of consoles, digital demo distribution for console games will be possible. Microsoft already confirmed you'll be able to download demos on the X360, and it's almost certain the same will be possible in the Nintendo Revolution (as seen in the original post, it is confirmed for DS games through the Revolution wifi).
I can't describe how awesome this will be, and how much freedom of choice console gamers will be given this way. This will greatly help reduce the unfairness seen nowadays, where many good games sell like shit because they are not "mainstream" enough to receive media coverage nor shelf-space, and god-awfull games manage to fool 2+ million gamers before word of mouth spreads saying the game stinks.
#54687 - Abscissa - Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:17 pm
| M3d10n wrote: |
| Cybereality, NOBODY is saying that demo DVDs should be given away. They cost money to do, the magazine they come from cost money to do, and producing DVD demos for every single game would be absurd. |
I am. Most games would only need a CD for a demo, not an entire DVD (Heck, a lot of full games ship on CDs anyway), and the cost of creating the demos can be subsidized by the extra game sales. (And let's face it, designing a cover for a demo - especially for a product that already has it's own cover anyway - is only expensive if your business is run super-poorly from the start.)
Of course, if you put multiple demos on a disc, you'd need a DVD, but by bundling them together you'd need only a fraction of the number of discs, thus reducing the total cost even further. And it's not like we're using carts anymore, optical disc manufacturing is dirt cheap by comparison.
Besides, it's not like other companies like AOL have any problems giving away millions of discs. Heck, they even did it with floppies, which cost many times more to produce than optical discs do.
| M3d10n wrote: |
With the next generation of consoles, digital demo distribution for console games will be possible. Microsoft already confirmed you'll be able to download demos on the X360, and it's almost certain the same will be possible in the Nintendo Revolution (as seen in the original post, it is confirmed for DS games through the Revolution wifi).
I can't describe how awesome this will be, and how much freedom of choice console gamers will be given this way. This will greatly help reduce the unfairness seen nowadays, where many good games sell like shit because they are not "mainstream" enough to receive media coverage nor shelf-space, and god-awfull games manage to fool 2+ million gamers before word of mouth spreads saying the game stinks. |
Very well said. I totally agree on this :)
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#55359 - LunarCrisis - Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:31 am
Considering that the companies have to pay $2.50 per demo disk and are prohibited from selling them for any price, it's not surprising that there aren't many gamecube demo disks around.
Source: http://www.warioworld.com/licensing/demodiscs/
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#55387 - Sebbo - Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:13 am
nintendo (more specifically Iwata-san) have said that you can download trailers and demos on the WiFi Connection with the Revolution, back at the Developers Summit i think, same time as Iwata announced the Virtual Console concept of the Revolution, as well as free online play for first- and second-party games (fees are option for third parties). alot of nintendo's revenue from their internet service will come from the virtual console, so i think they can afford to offer free trailers and demos
also, i think its kinda stupid that games cost up to 4 times the price of DVDs. games and movies have similar sized budgets (both time and money, unless you talk about RareWare) these days, but most actors get paid almost as much as the entire development staff for a game, not to mention movies with an "all-star cast"
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#55388 - TJ - Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:26 am
| Quote: |
| also, i think its kinda stupid that games cost up to 4 times the price of DVDs. |
You seem to be forgetting that the movie on that DVD has already been in theaters, and likely made a few thousand million there before it even came to DVD.
Besides the fact that there is a much much larger userbase for DVDs than console games.
#55396 - tepples - Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:13 am
Many feature films have a public exhibition phase and then a home video phase. The major studios are considering overlapping the home video phase with some or all of the public exhibition phase, and the theater owners have predictably come out in strong disapproval of this plan.
Many video games used to have a public exhibition phase before they hit consoles. Now just about all you find in public exhibition are driving games, light gun games, one-on-one fighting games, music-based games, and redemption games (really short games of skill that spit tickets good for buying trinkets).
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