#62433 - dj_mindoverload - Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:26 pm
just wounder if it would be possable to get ms dos to run on the nds
has n e 1 got any ideas
#62434 - MaHe - Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:36 pm
Probably not.
Still, recompiling the FreeDOS code and rewriting the kernel to boot from ARM could work - eventually.
If anyone starts this project: Use the DS-DOS name ;)
#62436 - tepples - Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:54 pm
Either that, or make an IBM XT emulator.
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#62549 - josath - Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:34 am
#62561 - Empyrean - Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:24 am
Um... why would you WANT to use DOS, anyway?
cd HOMEBR~1
dir /w
type copyrig~1.txt
del *.*
y
cd\
reboot
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#62572 - tepples - Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:34 pm
| Empyrean wrote: |
| Um... why would you WANT to use DOS, anyway? |
It would add dozens of CGA games to those that can be emulated on the DS.
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#62573 - Lazy1 - Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:38 pm
Well, I don't know how useful a straight port of dos would be to the ds but I can think of 2 ways to get lots of classic games on the ds...
- Emulate a 8086 with cga graphics adapter
- Write a QBasic interpreter
#62586 - tepples - Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:29 pm
In addition, if you can get DOS running, then you can get text editors and graphics programs running, making it even easier to turn your DS into a PDA.
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#62652 - JaJa - Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:48 pm
"Making your DS more like a PDA"
What about DSlinux?
We got emacs (or vi i can't remember) running.
About all these extra games, don't they require more RAM than we have?
And then there's things like resolution?
P.s i love the way the thread starter writes and cunningly disgeuises hos blatant request :D
#62653 - knight0fdragon - Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:17 pm
woot to qbasic woot woot
#62670 - tepples - Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:38 am
| JaJa wrote: |
"Making your DS more like a PDA"
What about DSlinux?
We got emacs (or vi i can't remember) running. |
It better not be Emacs (Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping), as the DS has only 4 MB of RAM, and constant swapping will chew up the write cycles on your CF card.
| Quote: |
| About all these extra games, don't they require more RAM than we have? |
Say you have 1 MB of emulator, 1 MB of emulated BIOS, VRAM, and the like, and 2 MB of emulated RAM (640 KB conventional + 128 KB upper + 1280 KB expanded). That should be enough to run most XT or AT era programs.
| Quote: |
| And then there's things like resolution? |
Most XT or AT era programs used a 320x200 pixel display mode. ScummVM can already scale 320x192 of that to the 256x192 pixel screen of the DS.
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Last edited by tepples on Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:09 am; edited 1 time in total
#62730 - The 9th Sage - Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:07 am
| tepples wrote: |
| JaJa wrote: | "Making your DS more like a PDA"
What about DSlinux?
We got emacs (or vi i can't remember) running. |
It better not be Emacs (Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping), as that will chew up the write cycles on your CF card. |
Naw, it's Vi, or at least it was in the last build I tried (I'm sure it's the same still).
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#63607 - Darkflame - Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:15 am
You dont need much Ram for the some of the best games.
Alone in the Dark needed just 640KB :D
(and looked amazing, i might add)
#63629 - Lazy1 - Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:43 am
Don't forget about:
688 attack sub
sim city 1
sim ant
sim earth
decathalon
qbert
and thousands of others...
Too bad it's impossible to port dosbox, that would be a quick start.
Unfortunately, to achieve fullspeed the cpu core would have to be in assembly and everything else designed from the ground up around ds hardware.
Maybe someone will take up the project at one point.
#63634 - tepples - Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:38 am
| Lazy1 wrote: |
| nfortunately, to achieve fullspeed the cpu core would have to be in assembly and everything else designed from the ground up around ds hardware. |
Neither issue was a big problem for FluBBa, the developer of SMS Advance and several other emulators that run on GBA. The Intel 8086 CPU used in the IBM XT is actually rawther slow for its 4.8 MHz clockspeed, comparable to other 8080 derivatives such as Z80 (SMS Advance) and GBZ80 (Goomba).
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#63638 - Lazy1 - Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:06 am
Well then, maybe a 286 emulator at 6 or 12mhz would be possible.
It would add a lot more games that could be played.
#63670 - Darkflame - Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:27 pm
Yeah, 6-12mhz sounds possible.
#63743 - Lazy1 - Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:41 am
The problem is, we need either an experienced x86 programmer or a pre-written x86 core and lots of luck.
#63777 - bigboicee - Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:42 am
Luckily for me I have Christmas break coming up and 2 wks to do what ever. maybe I'll stick my nose in some random programming.
#63844 - JaJa - Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:15 pm
Never just do random programming.
It can get messy and frustrating.
Plan it first.
#63853 - MaHe - Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:18 pm
What about rewriting the kernel to run on ARM not EMULATIN x86? Just like DSLinux does? Yeah, I know, the apps should be rewritten but hey - that's the same for DSLinux.
EDIT: Check out these:
http://projects.freedos.net/
http://www.freedos.net
I bet the keyboard driver could be rewritten to use the touch-screen and kernel remade to run on ARM. It'd take a load of time, though...
#63859 - tepples - Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:58 pm
"apps should be rewritten"
The difference is that most Linux apps that people would want to run are already free software, whereas most PC DOS apps that people would want to run are not.
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#63879 - Darkflame - Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:03 am
True, but theres some great ones that are.
Elite is freeware isnt it? (and the PC version would be nicer then the NES version)
Also, while Alone in the Dark is still copywrited, there is an open-source version being made called "Free in the Dark".
#65043 - Two9A - Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:36 pm
First off, people talk about running DOS games as if it's just DOS that needs porting. Most of these games don't use DOS at all, they merely run under DOS because it's the same as running under no OS at all, almost. It's the x86 and video/timing environment that goes with it that needs emulating, and that's much more of a problem.
Second, people say it's a simple matter to rewrite a game that was designed specifically for one hardware platform, to run on another. I'm currently rewriting a certain project to incorporate more portable code, and even then it's a pain to get it working across different platforms; and these platforms share most of their common characteristics. A 16-bit PC game is very difficult to move over to a 32-bit handheld.
And finally, someone mentioned planning a software project before you just dive in and code. Believe me, I know the pitfalls of just diving in; it's one of the reasons I'm rewriting DSemu now, with a little proper design behind it this time instead of code thrown in random directions.
#65086 - tepples - Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:32 am
| Two9A wrote: |
| First off, people talk about running DOS games as if it's just DOS that needs porting. Most of these games don't use DOS at all, they merely run under DOS because it's the same as running under no OS at all, almost. It's the x86 and video/timing environment that goes with it that needs emulating, and that's much more of a problem. |
Really? If one can emulate an NES, SMS, or even a Super NES on a GBA, or a Lucasarts game on a Nintendo DS, it surely can't be that much of a bother to emulate a 286 PC on a Nintendo DS.
| Quote: |
| I'm currently rewriting a certain project to incorporate more portable code, and even then it's a pain to get it working across different platforms; and these platforms share most of their common characteristics. A 16-bit PC game is very difficult to move over to a 32-bit handheld. |
Without violating NDAs, what sorts of issues are you running into?
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#65097 - Two9A - Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:05 am
Oh, there's no NDA involved, since it's DSemu-ng I'm talking about. The major issues I have are with compilation, being unable to link on different platforms and such; and that's after very careful consideration of portability issues. I doubt the coder of the average EGA game gave much thought to their code working on Amiga or ST.
As for porting those games to the DS, a plain rewrite wouldn't be the easiest thing ever, but not massively difficult. What would be substantially difficult is to emulate an x86 processor with all its assorted PC peripherals, at any kind of decent speed. I know the horrors of the x86 encoding, so I wouldn't want to be that guy. (I can barely do an ARM emulation right.)
#66264 - robones - Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:51 am
the DS is more than capable of 8086 emulation if ARM coded
reference:
FasterPC 8080/80186 pc emulator from 10+ years ago
on a Acorn RiscPC (Acorn setup ARM originally) 30MHZ/26MIPS was capable of emulating at 17.2mhz (8086 speed) mode 13 VGA and playing Dune 2 at full speed
a personally ran test from the time
#66267 - Alex Atkin UK - Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:10 am
I don't think the issue ever was if it was possible. The issue is who would have the time, energy, patience and skill to do it. If someone isnt already working on it then theres probably little chance anyone is going to.
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#66277 - Dark Knight ez - Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:25 pm
| robones wrote: |
| ... and playing Dune 2 at full speed |
Don't get our hopes up :p
#66281 - headspin - Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:37 pm
| Darkflame wrote: |
True, but theres some great ones that are.
Elite is freeware isnt it? (and the PC version would be nicer then the NES version)
Also, while Alone in the Dark is still copywrited, there is an open-source version being made called "Free in the Dark". |
Elite has already been ported directly to GBA here
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#69872 - ften - Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:14 pm
You would think something like Bochs, Qemu, Pocketdos, or as mentioned before Dosbox could be ported to Run Dos... although slowly. I think I've seen Bochs ports for just about everything possible.
-FTen
#69934 - josath - Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:43 am
Have you seen a bochs port to run on anything with 4MB of RAM?
The lowest I've seen is maybe 32MB.
Qemu is similar to bochs.
dosbox may be possible...i'm not sure.
pocketdos is commercial, non-open source, so no chance there.
#71830 - GPFerror - Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:18 pm
tried to do a quick port of dosbox 0.60 to the ds this morning, its trying to allocate ~12 megs so its not able to link.
| Code: |
| c:\devkitpro\devkitarm\bin\..\lib\gcc\arm-elf\4.0.2\..\..\..\..\arm-elf\bin\ld.exe: address 0x2980838 of c:/devkitPro/msys/home/GPF/prj/dosbox-0.60/src/dosboxDS.elf section .bss is not within region ewram |
but maybe someone else will have better luck.
Troy(GPF)
http://gpf.dcemu.co.uk
#71863 - josath - Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:54 pm
You should try a really old version of dosbox. maybe it has lower mem req.
Also see about disabling as much as you can (disable sound, disable protected mode emulation, etc)
Here are some more dos emulators that include source code, and may be lighter on the requirements:
http://www.oldskool.org/pc/flopper/
http://www.dosemu.org/
#71867 - tepples - Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:26 am
Perhaps it's trying to emulate a PC with 12 MB of RAM. If you tell it to emulate a smaller machine (e.g. a 2 MB machine) you might get it to fit.
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