#85281 - TheRain - Sun May 28, 2006 5:59 pm
I'm interested in hacking together hardware to connect to the DS. I don't have a DS yet, and I was wondering if someone could tell me what that port next to the DS cartridge slot is and if anyone has mapped it's pinout and written software to interface to it in the DS???
I have found little information on what that port even is.
Last edited by TheRain on Sun May 28, 2006 9:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
#85285 - Linkiboy - Sun May 28, 2006 6:09 pm
That's the recharge port, and I assume the only pins are (-) and (+). I could be wrong.
#85288 - Dan2552 - Sun May 28, 2006 6:34 pm
There is actually a headphone adapter for this port (designed for GBASP) - which means you can give output through the port but I doubt input
#85289 - TheRain - Sun May 28, 2006 6:47 pm
Oh. Well that doesn't work does it. Is there another way to do this?? I know that when running homebrew, you need both a pass device in the NDS slot and a flash cart in the GBA slot... does this leave no other options for hardware I/O?
#85292 - m2pt5 - Sun May 28, 2006 7:18 pm
| TheRain wrote: |
| a pass device in the NDS slot |
You don't if you install FlashMe.
Also, you can use the wireless for I/O, as some people have already done.
_________________
Don't sign your posts, it's dumb.
#85293 - Dan2552 - Sun May 28, 2006 7:23 pm
if its needed wires you could make a thing the same way modems work. Theres a microphone and headphones port right next to each other.
#85303 - TheRain - Sun May 28, 2006 8:57 pm
| m2pt5 wrote: |
| TheRain wrote: | | a pass device in the NDS slot |
You don't if you install FlashMe.
Also, you can use the wireless for I/O, as some people have already done. |
Do you have any links to such projects?? I could see communicating via WiFi through a router to a computer then interfaced to something else... but what about peer to peer?? wouldn't that only be possible using nintendo's proprietary peer to peer protocol?
| Dan2552 wrote: |
its needed wires you could make a thing the same way modems work. Theres a microphone and headphones port right next to each other.
|
Interesting idea... I've never attempted something like this, chances are it would be a pretty involved circuit... unless there is a good IC package out there to make it easier. Modem stands for Modulator Demodulator... as I understand it (on the receiver end), it bandpasses different frequencies to register whether a signal is coming through at a certain frequency range or combination of frequency ranges, clocks this signal and converts it back to digital.
#85306 - Payk - Sun May 28, 2006 9:12 pm
I wouldnt even call this a port...
And also a better port then gbaslot or ndslot u cant use for that.
So why this one?!??!?!
#85309 - TheRain - Sun May 28, 2006 9:40 pm
| Payk wrote: |
I wouldnt even call this a port...
And also a better port then gbaslot or ndslot u cant use for that.
So why this one?!??!?! |
Hi Payk... I am not sure I understand you. Ok, the "port" i was talking about originally is NOT a port. I understand that.
About the GBA cartridge slot, I read in the Nintendo DS Wiki that Nintendo intended this to be used as an add-on device port in addition to a GBA cartridge slot. Perhaps the DS cartridge slot is not intended for this purpose... but maybe it can be used this way with some hacking??
Last edited by TheRain on Sun May 28, 2006 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
#85311 - SteveH - Sun May 28, 2006 9:41 pm
I know there is a SerialMe device, and you can jerry rig a serial interfdace to the passme devices.
naturium42's site has a lot of info about this.
#85316 - TheRain - Sun May 28, 2006 10:37 pm
| SteveH wrote: |
I know there is a SerialMe device, and you can jerry rig a serial interfdace to the passme devices.
naturium42's site has a lot of info about this. |
That sounds like the best option... I can't find that person's site though.. do you have a link? Googling SerialMe comes up with few results as well.
thanks,
'rain
#85317 - swimgod - Sun May 28, 2006 10:50 pm
http://natrium42.com/projects/serial.html
thats the serial interface on the passme
_________________
1x WII 2x remotes
2x NDS/L(FMv7-ORG:v4,FMv7-org:DSL)
1x GBAMP
2x 1gb (MicroDrive{typeII}&SanDisk{typeI})
1x SuperPass2
1x Supercard-CF
MoonShell skins
#85318 - TheRain - Sun May 28, 2006 11:30 pm
Perrrrrrfect! thanks! and thanks to everyone for all the info.
#85361 - DJBlitz - Mon May 29, 2006 12:23 pm
Wow I was just about to ask the same thing. . I'm interested in hacking up my DS now since in just a few days I'll be getting a DS Lite to use normally.
Anyhow... The power plug on the back of the DS seems to be MORE than just a power plug - it has 4 'pins' (well flat bits actually)
the power cable itself that plugs into that port has space for 4 of these 'flat pins' but only uses two of them. Also, interestingly - the 2 flat pins & 2 spaces in between them line up exactly with the 4 evenly spaced flat pins on a USB plug - apart from the dimensions of the outer edges of the plug being different, and that little kink in the middle section, it seems to be the same as a USB plug.
Also, the user manual describes the port as a "External Extension Connector" which sounds a lot like "peripheral device" to me.
Just on a lighter note - My uber-idea was to hack my iPod's USB connector together with the DS power plug, then write up the code to access it (if its even possible) giving me a self-powering 20gb hard drive for my DS!
Apart from being quite useful - it'd look really awesome using a white nano & white DS lite . . . lol. . Cos looks are so much more important! :P (Of course ill be using a blue NDS and a chunky old ipod so it wont look good at all)
Anyway...for now I'm just checking out how viable that would be.. and this part about being able to access it through this "external extension connector" is pretty crucial!
Any comments appreciated..
Oh and by the way. .. Hi everyone! Hope to get to know some of ya better and learn a bit of DS dev along the way.
-gavin
#85366 - chishm - Mon May 29, 2006 2:23 pm
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Ext. 2 connector (as it is known) only contains pins for Power and audio out, so no data (except as a soft modem, I suppose).
_________________
http://chishm.drunkencoders.com
http://dldi.drunkencoders.com
#85383 - silent_code - Mon May 29, 2006 5:46 pm
BE WARNED: me = crap! me mouth open = lots of crap getting emitted (hopefully that state changes when i get some sort of sleep)
you're sure?
i remember my ole gba (classic ;) ) has the same interface... the gba-sp used it for power and (the missing!!! <- my reason not to buy one!) headphone plug adapter. but couldn't it be used for analogue data transfer? i mean instead of sending audio you could send (like the modem stuff you already mentioned) some, well, other stuff? if you had a controller to decode the audio signal as a digital signal (A/D converter) you could build a remote of any kind.
PLUS: there are games on ngc (like zelda 4 sword or something) where you connect you gba as a controller and additional display... now how you want to burst THAT bubble ;P *don't want to offend anyone*
i haven't played that game or any other game supporting that feature, but it works for sure. don't know how, though. by the way: if i had that cable i could connect my metroid prime and metroid fusion for some extra stuff... nice idea... i think i'll get that cable ;)
someone dig into that, may come in handy somethow!
greets
Rob
Last edited by silent_code on Tue May 30, 2006 3:34 am; edited 1 time in total
#85401 - DJBlitz - Mon May 29, 2006 11:17 pm
Why would they have audio out on the back when they already have a perfectly good headphone plug on the front anyway (and audio in as well)?
Has anyone here actually unscrewed there DS and had a look at the circuits?
If not. . I might have to take mine apart...see if there are any clues (or maybe there wont be..) Only 2 more days till DS Lite in aus. anyhow :D
Oh and I was wrong before about it being similar to USB. . it has 6 pins in the back port.
and yes i realise this is just enough to have power, mic, and headphones.. But i still dont see why theyd add another port that does exactly the same thing (+ power) as the front one.
Silent Code . . yeah that does sound interesting. . . does anyone know what kind of port it connects to on a gamecube? and if it connects via the same 'external extension' port on the DS..... I dont have one unfortunately (the cable or the gamecube)
*edit*
You cant exactly tell from this picture, but the thinner end of this link cable looks about the right size to go into the back of the DS? Its difficult to tell - the diameter of the 'circle' in the plastic cover of the plug is the same width as the metal casing on the end of the plug. . which is how it is with the DS, but rest of the black plastic is much chunkier/wider. . .So this could either mean its a smaller plug (and black circle), or its the same size but with more chunky plastic around it.
[Images not permitted - Click here to view it][/img]
#85405 - silent_code - Tue May 30, 2006 12:08 am
WARNING: CRAP FOLLOWING!!!
that is the standard gba connector for multiplayer. because the nds and the sp use the same powering strategy (one can even use a sp adaptor to power a nds, not?) AND the port is the (visually) same as the gbas (damn, it's 12:25 am and i'm still in university -> no gba at hand) i assume the three of them have the same functionality.
BUT: i read that it's not possible to play multiplayer games on nds in gba mode the other day (can't remember where, it's damn long ago - i was looking forward to deathmatch in doom on my gba and a nds [that i don't have yet, waiting for lite]). maybe that's because the nds' "port" ISN'T exactly the same as the gbas (and sps). maybe someone else knows why, i don't. just some speculation.
the gba is connected via a cable to the ngcs controller port and there can be up to 4 gbas or sps connected to the ngc (like in zelda four swords). maybe i can find a pic of that damn thing...
there is a usb powering cable for sp and nds:
http://www.lik-sang.com/image.php?category=45&products_id=8994&img=gba-3in1-chargecable
a 4 player link cable for gba and sp:
http://www.lik-sang.com/image.php?category=45&products_id=1094&img=gba-link4player
and finally the gba to ngc cable:
http://www.lik-sang.com/image.php?category=45&products_id=1879&img=gc-gba_cable_port
comparing the jacks you can tell they ARE the same... man, these devices share the same cables (gba and sp / sp and nds), so it HAS to be the same. the link kables are always ONLY for gba and sp.
that's what makes me doubt they are really exactly the same. it may be that the nds just uses the jacks audio and power or even just the power line and the remaining ones are dead.
why would they do that? they already have that ac adaptor and the cables and jacks developed and manufactured (sp), so why bothering changing things that work and factories are already producing? it's just a question of not soldering some connections...
i hope i'm not making a total dork of myself with these posts ;)
someone better find out if my assumptions are crap ;p
either way: greets 'n Rob out
oh, i got another one! this time it's the "famous" (missing) sp headphone jack:
http://www.lik-sang.com/image.php?category=6&products_id=2901&img=gbasp_headphone_adaptor
ps: no, i'm not advertising lik-sang... i'm just a lazy bastard knowing they have all that stuff ;p
Last edited by silent_code on Tue May 30, 2006 12:27 am; edited 1 time in total
#85406 - derula - Tue May 30, 2006 12:22 am
| silent_code wrote: |
| someone better find out if my assumptions are crap ;p |
Sadly enough, they are. The SP & NDS power in/audio out ports are not the same as GBA & SP link cable port. Well, or my GBA link cable is strangely deformed ;) (no, it isn't)
_________________
visit my blog. please.
#85408 - silent_code - Tue May 30, 2006 12:30 am
damn, i don't have a sp... i used one a few times and i was really sure that it was that way... but now i see the sp (damn thing! now i AM a dork!) has that second "port"...
sorry for the confusion! well, at least i tried... ;D *bubble bursts*pop*that's it*no more bubbles*
*is a bit ashamed for claiming crap*
ok, looking sharply i see the link cable has these "cutaways", the power cable doesn't. damn it. i was sooo good ;p
Last edited by silent_code on Tue May 30, 2006 12:35 am; edited 2 times in total
#85409 - sdjp - Tue May 30, 2006 12:33 am
| TheRain wrote: |
| I could see communicating via WiFi through a router to a computer then interfaced to something else... but what about peer to peer?? wouldn't that only be possible using nintendo's proprietary peer to peer protocol? |
WiFi == IEEE 802.11[bg] which is wireless Ethernet.
There is no difference between talking to a router or another peer over Ethernet (wired or wireless.) (In fact, the Ethernet is unaware of the difference between them.) The router in question here works at the IP level.
So, you can talk to anything that does 802.11 with a DS just fine, as I have done. Nintendo's propietary protocol is only for WMB, or game to game communication; if you're running your own code, it's totally irrelevent to you. Even then, it's over Ethernet as well.
#85413 - TheRain - Tue May 30, 2006 1:28 am
| sdjp wrote: |
WiFi == IEEE 802.11[bg] which is wireless Ethernet.
There is no difference between talking to a router or another peer over Ethernet (wired or wireless.) (In fact, the Ethernet is unaware of the difference between them.) The router in question here works at the IP level.
So, you can talk to anything that does 802.11 with a DS just fine, as I have done. Nintendo's propietary protocol is only for WMB, or game to game communication; if you're running your own code, it's totally irrelevent to you. Even then, it's over Ethernet as well. |
I was unaware that WiFi could work peer to peer, I thought a router always had to be involved. The reason I thought that the NDS peer to peer stuff was some proprietary Wifi like technology was because of the special NDS Wifi adaptor you can get for your computer. If what you say is true, it's either just a standard Wifi adaptor or something that has some software bundled for special NDS game piping or something.
#85414 - DJBlitz - Tue May 30, 2006 1:41 am
/me scraps idea for ipod harddrive on his DS
:(
#85415 - MrD - Tue May 30, 2006 2:00 am
| sdjp wrote: |
| TheRain wrote: | | I could see communicating via WiFi through a router to a computer then interfaced to something else... but what about peer to peer?? wouldn't that only be possible using nintendo's proprietary peer to peer protocol? |
WiFi == IEEE 802.11[bg] which is wireless Ethernet.
There is no difference between talking to a router or another peer over Ethernet (wired or wireless.) (In fact, the Ethernet is unaware of the difference between them.) The router in question here works at the IP level.
So, you can talk to anything that does 802.11 with a DS just fine, as I have done. Nintendo's propietary protocol is only for WMB, or game to game communication; if you're running your own code, it's totally irrelevent to you. Even then, it's over Ethernet as well. |
Say... isn't there 802.11b compatible printers now?
Crikes, that's dangerous.
_________________
Not active on this forum. For Lemmings DS help see its website.
#85423 - silent_code - Tue May 30, 2006 3:27 am
the package of the nintendo wifi stick says it's only needed if you don't already have wifi. but don't believe me, i posted too much crap lately (in this thread)... look it up at your favorite electronics store... ;)
[i should rename myself to silent crap, shouldn't i?]
lol about the printer thing... there are even flatscreens that are able to streem from a wifi connection (pc/laptop/wifi hdd...) so you don't have to connect your home theatre to any device to listen to your music or watch your movies...
you guy think the same as me (the ole crap-o-tella)? tunneling the video output through wifi and displaying stuff on such a tv... hold it! it's BS ;) well, at least the tunneling thing... the tv set is real. e.g. acer has its mediacenter thing (1080i native *lol*)... but these devices all suffer from crap images and high prices. it's not like i have the cash to affort such a thing... i can't even affort a damn nds dev kit...
#85453 - derula - Tue May 30, 2006 2:48 pm
| silent_code wrote: |
| the package of the nintendo wifi stick says it's only needed if you don't already have wifi. |
Reading, another access point. But it is only needed to access other networks (e.g. the Internet). There is also multiplayer mode which works from DS to DS (even 8 at a time), you won't need a router for that.
_________________
visit my blog. please.
#85457 - silent_code - Tue May 30, 2006 3:00 pm
totally right :D nds is a fine piece of tech :)
#85474 - tepples - Tue May 30, 2006 6:34 pm
| derula wrote: |
| There is also multiplayer mode which works from DS to DS (even 8 at a time), you won't need a router for that. |
Only for official games until sgstair implements ad-hoc IP mode or Ni-Fi mode into the homebrew Wi-Fi library.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#85650 - jester - Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:51 pm
so DSerial is the best option at this point?
#85673 - TheRain - Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:47 pm
| jester wrote: |
| so DSerial is the best option at this point? |
Hey, I would consider it the *easiest* option... best is defined more by what you're intending to do with it. The good thing about the DSerial through the Passme is that it's been documented and there is example code available.
Personally, I am going to etch my own PCB to fit into the NDS slot and then figure out how to access some of the pins through that because, for one, I don't have a Passme... and for two, I may be able to get some parralell communication there instead, or multiple serial lines... or in other words it will be more flexible. On the negative side, I will have to understand what code like what was coded for the SerialMe is doing at the hardware level. This may be easier or more difficult than I know.
Darkfader has a few different forms of PCB designs for the NDS slot which can be adapted for whatever you want if you know how to work with that. The dimensions of the slot and pin spacing are also available on his site http://darkfader.net/ds/
Using the audio in and out sounds like too much effort and too little gain. Depending on what you want to do, WiFi may be a good option for you. For me, it would be a waste of time because I really just want to toy around... and I've never done anything with WiFi before and don't own any hardware to interface to my circuits.
#85905 - NEiM0D - Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:11 am
The DS to DS multiplayer mode (with up to 15 other players simultaneously) is sadly not adhoc.
One of the DS'es is the parent DS, acting like an Access Point, and thus running in infrastructure mode. All the other DS'es connect to this parent.
The DS seems to be very strict in what it can receive. Management frames seem to be no problem. But Data frames need to have the "From DS (Distribution System)" bit enabled, or else the receiving DS will not accept it. This means Ad-Hoc mode is not possible under normal conditions..
It's possible to constantly poll the DS's temporary receive buffer to retrieve _everything_ the DS received from the air, but this method is not very practical.
#85907 - tepples - Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:27 am
So how much work would it be to implement a soft AP on the DS?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#86785 - NEiM0D - Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:26 am
Small update:
It seems Ad-Hoc mode is possible on DS. I've managed to get it to work just like Infrastructure mode, with these features:
- Hardware pushes any valid packet (FCS) into the RX ring buffer.
- Hardware automatically responds with ACK to data frames addressed to it.
- Hardware automatically encrypts/decrypts WEP data frames.
As for implementing a soft AP on the DS, I guess it would not take too much work.
#172270 - RavingRabbid007 - Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:15 am
Ah yes, I'd like a USB port on the back of my DSLite too...
But, there might be a solution to control the real-world or acquire data (GPS coordinates, for example). The Acekard RPG features a USB port for which the driver is on the DS side (I believe).
The late DS-XTreme had USB connectivity also, but USB control was on the PC side, for quick download.
I'll probably get RPG just to check it out for myself and open up a new dimension to DS homebrewing (so cool, so geekish :) )
Cheers,
#172286 - josath - Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:14 am
holy thread necromancy, batman!
did you know the post you replied to is 3.5 years old?
Anyway here's a device you can use to get I/O ports on your DS to connect to outside devices:
http://www.electrobee.com/gameio-p-51.html
#172287 - elhobbs - Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:07 am
3.5 year old threads are good... particularly when they have nothing to do with what you are asking about. Wifi... USB... Am I missing something?
![[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]](http://www.micromania.fr/accessoires/gbasp/cablemulti.jpg){kind=link}