#92308 - tyraen - Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:41 pm
Hi all,
Just wondering what everyone knows about these, I've seen brief mentions of them on a couple threads, but not much detail. Are people able to launch code from the DS slot? I'm sort of new to the whole scene, but I don't remember ever seeing anything that eluded to that. Does anyone have links to the details on how this is being done, is it only the bigger companies or have people been getting this themselves?
Thanks, hopefully this wasn't a dumb question...
#92317 - Mrshlee - Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:40 pm
Yes: recently there has been "information" released about DS based flash carts.
as of now.. none of them are supported.
GBA carts are working fine and are the backbone of the community.. that said the homebrew community will always grow using newly avaliable technology.
The future may hold them.. I don't expect the homebrew to switch to DScarts anytime soon.. until the ram expansion is released and can be exploited.
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#92320 - clone dad - Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:44 pm
what about the ninjapass?
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#92321 - Mighty Max - Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:46 pm
Threads linking to them have been deleted.
However i can't understand it, as i think at their current state, those devices help more to homebrew (removing the multiple device barrier) then it helps pirates, which have better solutions, as space is a primary decission maker for them.
But well, google is your friend. There are at least 4 devices i've heard about now. From 2 i know they are in the selling stage.
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#92325 - tyraen - Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:20 pm
Alright, so currently they are not well supported for homebrew? And they are flash carts and don't support SD cards and the like?
I got a DS Lite recently and have been playing around (though not making much progress) with devkitPro and various emulators to get some working code, but it doesn't quite do the job. :) I'd like to get homebrew going on my DS but the price is kind of discouraging.
Anyways, thanks for the info.
#92350 - Lynx - Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:30 am
I think your most cost effect method of homebrew right now is a NoPass + GBA MP (CF) as both are fairly cheap. If you are wanting to develope your own homebrew, than the only real drawback to the GBA MP of not being able to run a few select homebrew/ports out there.. isn't really a drawback for you. Plus, using Chishm's FAT lib, you will have full read/write access to the CF card.. Plus, a lot of homebrew really take advantage of that feature.
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#92424 - tyraen - Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:06 pm
Not to keep bringing this up, but I was reading up on the NoPass here:
http://tobw.net/dswiki/index.php?title=How_to_run_code
And saw:
| Quote: |
| When the homebrew scene found out how the DS's cartridge encryption worked, it was (in theory, at least) possible to make their own DS cartridges that behave exactly like DS games and could thus be used even on unmodified DSes. |
I'm guessing this is the sort of deal the single slot solutions are going to use. The NinjaPass somebody mentioned seemed to be (from what I could see) a two card solution, one must load into memory or something, or prepare for the execution from the second, which is basically just storage. I really don't know any of the details (the pages weren't english), but this still seems sucky. If the NoPass can run any code, why not build a single card DS slot solution that has an CF/SD/mini-SD slot built in? It would probably stick out some, but that would still be the most convenient I think.
#92597 - HyperHacker - Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:37 am
I'd love to see a device that just plugs into slot 1, and emulates a DS card using Transflash, without needing any slot 2 device. Sure it might help piracy (not like it could make the process any easier anyway), but think how much easier homebrew would be. You could do things exactly how Nintendo does, people would only need to buy the adapter and a Transflash card, you could connect whatever crazy device to the GBA slot (how about that adapter that lets you plug in NES carts?), etc. If they were cheap (don't see why they wouldn't be, if a NoPass can be $20) they'd be the perfect solution to the problem of having so many different devices that programs need to be compatible with. You wouldn't have to mod your DS at all, you could put an HTTP download play client on it, you could share it with your friends who know nothing about technology, and you wouldn't have to have some big bulky device hanging out of the DS. Plus you could keep a GBA flash cart plugged in, so you could have all your DS homebrew stored on one card in slot 1, and all your GBA homebrew stored on one card in slot 2, and never have to swap cards except to play commercial games. :-)
Honestly I think the money lost to piracy via such a device - keeping in mind that it's already quite possible with other devices, and that most pirates wouldn't have bought the games anyway - would be cancelled out by the money gained by people buying DSes just for homebrew, secure in the knowledge that they don't have to muck around with SRAM, buy some weird GBA cart from a website in Hong Kong, or take the risks associated with firmware flashing. Especially if the device itself promoted and/or came with some of the better homebrew such as Moonshell and DSOrganize.
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#92656 - tyraen - Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:49 am
Yeah, I'm for whatever makes things easier. I'm coming from Xbox homebrew experience, that was a breeze. :) I had a 1.0 Xbox that could be flashed, homebrew was free! I didn't need to pay a thing to get started on it... XBMC was the sweetest app!
Are piracy fears holding that sort of thing (you mentioned) back? I'm new to DS stuff and I don't have a good idea of how things have progressed really...
#92725 - wintermute - Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:05 pm
| HyperHacker wrote: |
Honestly I think the money lost to piracy via such a device - keeping in mind that it's already quite possible with other devices, and that most pirates wouldn't have bought the games anyway - would be cancelled out by the money gained by people buying DSes just for homebrew ...
|
Except that those people in your little theory aren't going to be buying commercial games so software companies stop writing games for the DS, the console then gets marginalised and discontinued.
Still, from what figures I can glean, the DS appears to be one of the most popular handheld consoles in a long time and I sincerely hope that popularity spreads to the Wii.
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#92727 - HyperHacker - Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:08 pm
I don't think a lot of people would buy the system and only play homebrew on it. There's probably many people who think the games are cool but not worth buying a DS for; cool homebrew could be the push they need. Or they buy it for homebrew alone, but then see some cool games they want, etc.
Besides, the DS is incredibly popular. More people buying them for homebrew alone doesn't mean less people buying both them and the games. Commercial-game-compatible GBA flash carts certainly don't seem to have killed the GBA.
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#92731 - Sausage Boy - Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:25 pm
HyperHacker, as a matter of fact I have already begun to design such a device. Unfortunately I don't think my limited fpga knowledge is enough to create an encryption implemention. Also, people are probably afraid to buy a bare PCB with some components on it (just look at all the commercial passme clones).
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#92777 - Lynx - Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:28 pm
| Quote: |
| Also, people are probably afraid to buy a bare PCB with some components on it (just look at all the commercial passme clones). |
That's totally not true, I can tell you that right now!
But, if the device is going to fit intot he DS slot, and not stick out.. than it is going to HAVE to have something to help it in and out of the slot.
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#92826 - Sausage Boy - Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:54 am
| Quote: |
| That's totally not true, I can tell you that right now! |
A pleasure to do business with you indeed.
Would a little piece of pcb glued to the device above the bottom right corner do? It would have to be carefully trimmed to the right shape though...
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#92943 - HyperHacker - Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:16 pm
Just pulling things out of the slot without properly ejecting can damage the slot.
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#92959 - Abcd1234 - Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:38 pm
| wintermute wrote: |
| Except that those people in your little theory aren't going to be buying commercial games so software companies stop writing games for the DS, the console then gets marginalised and discontinued. |
Bah, that's just ridiculous. Did this happen to the GBA (who's software is the easiest to pirate of all consoles in recent memory, aside from maybe the Dreamcast)? Or the PS? Or the XBox? No, it didn't. Sure, what you suggest sounds reasonable, in theory, but things *rarely* pan out as you describe.
#92990 - Mrshlee - Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:03 am
I've never believed this "plan"..
I download Lost.. House.. Stargate the second they come out
but look on my wall and notice all the box sets
Fans download and they buy the real deal..
Sadly this doesn't seem to be the same for music :(
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#93094 - JaJa - Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:38 pm
| Mrshlee wrote: |
I've never believed this "plan"..
I download Lost.. House.. Stargate the second they come out
but look on my wall and notice all the box sets
Fans download and they buy the real deal..
Sadly this doesn't seem to be the same for music :( |
No because they're jailed before they have a chance to buy the album.
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#93187 - zzo38computer - Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:24 pm
| JaJa wrote: |
| Mrshlee wrote: | I've never believed this "plan"..
I download Lost.. House.. Stargate the second they come out
but look on my wall and notice all the box sets
Fans download and they buy the real deal..
Sadly this doesn't seem to be the same for music :( |
No because they're jailed before they have a chance to buy the album. |
No that isn't the reason, these are 2 reasons:
1. Because you only want one good song on the CD and the rest are no good
2. Because the CDs are copy-protected and don't work properly on many CD players
No and people won't stop buying commercial games just because homebrew games are also available, there are a lot of commercial games available for purchase at many stores
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#93192 - Sausage Boy - Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:34 pm
| Quote: |
No that isn't the reason, these are 2 reasons:
1. Because you only want one good song on the CD and the rest are no good
2. Because the CDs are copy-protected and don't work properly on many CD players |
1. Start listening to better artists :P
2. ...who don't use retarded record companies.
Really, all the albums I've bought have had around 1-2 bad songs at most, and I havn't had any trouble playing them anywhere.
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#93221 - tepples - Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:12 pm
| zzo38computer wrote: |
| No and people won't stop buying commercial games just because homebrew games are also available, there are a lot of commercial games available for purchase at many stores |
I would bet that I'm single-handedly responsible for a loss of several sales of Tetris Worlds for PC and Game Boy Advance and Lumines for PSP, given responses that I have read on various web forums ("You saved me $290!").
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#93256 - Lynx - Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:42 am
Wow, those must be some expensive games to save $290! :)
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#93261 - tepples - Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:05 am
| Lynx wrote: |
| Wow, those must be some expensive games to save $290! :) |
PSP Value Pack: 250 USD; Lumines: $40 at launch (now $30). The issue to Ubisoft and other PSP game publishers is that people who play Luminesweeper on their GBAs aren't buying PSP hardware to play Lumines and then impulse-buying more PSP games now that they have PSP hardware.
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#93600 - HyperHacker - Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:18 am
But how many of these people do you think would have bought a PSP and Lumines if Luminesweeper wasn't available?
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#93674 - Lynx - Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:40 pm
Exactly.. Anyone stupid enough to spend $290 to play a single game is a complete moron.
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#93692 - josath - Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:02 pm
| Lynx wrote: |
| Exactly.. Anyone stupid enough to spend $290 to play a single game is a complete moron. |
And as we all know, there are lots of complete morons (in fact, it seems that Sony bases it's buisness model on the existence of them), so if you stop the morons from buying PSPs...well then you have cost sony some sales :P
#93798 - melw - Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:27 am
This is getting totally offtopic... but the last I checked DS Lite 150usd + GBAMP 25usd + PassKey2 20usd = ~200usd - then you can play a homebrew version of Lumines. Most useless comparison ever. Original Lumines costs 30 bucks and that's it, still one of the best games for PSP. Oh, and now they have Locoroco too - perhaps one should make a DS homebrew version of it as well so there would be still no reason to get a PSP?
Getting back to the topic, it would be nice to see a single slot device. But then again like some said, I also like to keep the original games in the DS slot and the homebrew stuff in the GBA slot, which would be otherwise not used at all (or rarely). No need to change cards all the time this way.
#93850 - Dan2552 - Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:38 pm
| melw wrote: |
This is getting totally offtopic... but the last I checked DS Lite 150usd + GBAMP 25usd + PassKey2 20usd = ~200usd - then you can play a homebrew version of Lumines. Most useless comparison ever. Original Lumines costs 30 bucks and that's it, still one of the best games for PSP. Oh, and now they have Locoroco too - perhaps one should make a DS homebrew version of it as well so there would be still no reason to get a PSP?
|
You didn't mention the PSP console price at all.
#93875 - tepples - Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:40 pm
Cheapest is the PC you already have (otherwise you wouldn't be posting here) plus a GBA emulator. Cheapest handheld is the GBA you may already have since June 2001 plus a GBAMP plus a CF card, but it's the version without music. Cheapest "fair comparison" is a GBA SP, SuperCard, CF card, and CF writer.
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