#112230 - melroy - Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:21 pm
Anyone here has a ds-x if the answer its yes write your opinion
#112233 - AN_D_K - Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:27 pm
Yes.
It's pretty good. Just whack it in and go. No need to anything else to chip the DS. Copy *.nds over with USB. No need to convert it to some GBA format. Everything works as it would if it were a proper DS game like game saving or using the resources.
I'm glad I got one.
But...
The build quality is a bit poor. A lot of users need to wedge a piece of paper between the cartridge and the back of the slot to jam it in right. Or else the pins don't connect to the DS right. Others have had to take the case apart and use a razor to take off some of the plastic around the pins but thats rare (and the paper trick usually works with that situation too).
You also can't play GBA games and it only holds 512Mb. But you can use it in place of a passme kind of thing so you can put something like an M3 in too later (to be used separately...not as a magical memory booster).
#112234 - Mrshlee - Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:36 pm
STOP WITH THE WAREZ TALKIN BOY
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#112235 - ikaris - Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:11 pm
Works great for me.
The why:
What I wanted was a dev solution that didn't require me to be constantly removing the cart, putting it into a flasher, compiling, then flashing with a special flashing program, the taking the cart back out and putting it back into the DS.
The good:
I can have a batch file run after I compile that automatically copies the appropriate .nds file into the cart... hypothetically, I only have to plug in via USB, compile, unplug, test. Plus, with the "load last ROM" option, I don't even have to enter the DS-X menu. Also, if I want to dev on the road (which I do on occasion) all I need to bring is a USB cable (of which I carry a few in my bag for other things anyway). Also, I can carry a few games with me on the cart for when I'm frustrated with a bug :)
The bad:
ROMs cant be played while the USB cable is still plugged into the machine (or you do a Remove Hardware... but thats even longer). Also, plugging and unplugging the mini-USB on the DS side often makes the cart come out, so I've taken to unplugging the large USB side from the PC instead. Would have been nice if we could keep it plugged all the time. It just means the DS has a USB cable dangling out of it while I'm testing, but that's not really a big deal.
Conclusion:
All in all, it's a great improvement over my old setup (flasher and GBA cart). I'd recommend it.
Build quality has not been a problem for me so far.
These things are crazy hard to find, though... I had to wait almost a month for mine.
#112246 - Firon - Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:42 pm
I do recall that the reason they've been hard to find is that they made some manufacturing changes to improve build quality, but had some difficulties. I believe production has resumed again, though.
#112266 - Lynx - Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:59 pm
So.. I understand it seems to work great for playing illegally downloaded pirate warez....
But.. does it also work with homebrew? Ya'know.. what this site is actually about?
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#112275 - josath - Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:26 pm
| Lynx wrote: |
| But.. does it also work with homebrew? Ya'know.. what this site is actually about? |
From what I've heard, it actually does run most homebrew that doesn't depend on GBAROM space. The unfortunate part is that DSX has not released ANY code or documentation, so how exactly they are making it work is unknown, and it's possible future versions of libfat will not work with it, and there's nothing we would be able to do about it.
They made a lot of promises of being homebrew-friendly, but haven't really come through on any of the big ones. (No code, no usb debugger support, etc)
#112283 - chishm - Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:54 pm
I've heard they are emulating an MK2 in hardware to get the FAT libraries working. But that might just be a rumour, I haven't got a DS-X to test.
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#112314 - ikaris - Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:55 am
| chishm wrote: |
| But that might just be a rumour, I haven't got a DS-X to test. |
If you want to test something, give me a shout.
#112324 - Lynx - Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:50 am
ikaris! PLEASE.. Test a bunch of homebrew and let us know how it works?
All I ever see reguarding this hardware is "what I heard or what i've read is..." but no hard evidence.
Some examples would be:
TickleGirl - GBFS
WordUp - Standard .nds
DSOranize or Moonshell - reading FAT
Tales of Dagur - Saving using FATlib
or any other homebrew.. they are all available on ndshb.com if you don't want to search around.
Looking forward to hearing your response!
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#112332 - OOPMan - Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:06 am
Interestingly enough, the guy who just released that unofficial update of DSDoom to 1.1.0 has a crit of the DS-X on his site it a lot of what he writes with respect to homebrew is not complimentary. Maybe he just got a very shoddy DS-X, but some of the issues he raises are not related to build (Eg, Unresponsive DS-X staff on the forums, etc...)
Anyway, his review is here. Worth a read, since it's one of the only reviews written that I've seen that is not all positives...
As josath said, the DS-X crew claimed they were going to support homebrew in a big way, but we've seen no real support yet, so the judge is out on them...
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#112350 - 0xtob - Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:43 pm
I received my free DS-Xtreme yesterday :-) Overall, I'm quite happy with the device, but it still needs a lot of improvement. Here's a mini-review:
I can confirm that the build quality is a bit poor. It feels strange inserting/removing the device and I'm constantly afraid of breaking the slot insertion mechanism. The internal software feels cheap and has several glitches. It even crashes once in a while.
It's generally slow: After you turn on the DS it takes about 10 seconds for the DS-X menu to appear (with auto-boot activated in the DS firmware). When entering the Apps menu, it takes 9 seconds for listing the 30 homebrew apps/games I have on the card. The mp3 library has to be rebuilt every time you want to use the mp3 player function, not only when you add/remove mp3s. I have 60 mp3s on the card and building the library takes about 20 seconds. A good thing though is that the software also supports OGG.
The dancing LEDs feature is a nice gimmick, and the LEDs are really bright. The default LED brightness levels can be controlled in the firmware. Each LED has a brightness setting from 0-255, and as there are 2x a red, a green and a blue LED on the back of the device, you have 2 "pixels" with 24-bit color :-)
The DS-X firmware is a usability nightmare. It took me some time to figure out that you navigate through the mp3 menus by double-tapping, and that you add multiple files to the playlist by holding the stylus down, which brings up a pop-up menu and then selecting "Queue" from that menu.
When trying to code with the DS-X I used a similar method to ikaris: Plugging in the device, copying my app to the DS-X via a script that also automatically unmounts it, pulling the cable and turning on the DS. My app is then automatically launched using the "Instant boot" option. So, I implemented a new feature in NitroTracker, wanted to test it and it just didn't work. I added some debug output to investigate why it wasn't working, but the output didn't even appear. It turned out that when the instant boot option is used, the DS-X does not boot the file off the card, but from some other internal memory. So when you overwrite the file on the DS-X, it still boots the old version until you disable instant boot and manually launch the app from the menu.
I contacted them about this using their bugtracking site (http://support.ds-x.com) and already got some replies from the developers and it seems they are working on this. I also sent them an e-Mail asking about the promised features like LED control, USB debugging and FPGA reprogramming, but got no reply so far.
By the way, as chishm said, it is detected as a Neoflash MK2 by gba_nds_fat. FAT access (loading and saving) is working fine in NitroTracker and other apps.
The homebrew menu looks nice. It displays the icons of the homebrew apps and the names and info from the nds headers. This can become confusing though when a file does not have proper headers. For example, Wordup is listed as "PAlib Demo" with a PAlib icon.
Here are the test results of the homebrew that Lynx listed:
- Ticklegirl: Doesn't boot
- Wordup: Works fine
- Tales of Dagur: Saving works, but it crashes when trying to load the save state again
- Moonshell: Boots a bit slow. mp3 playback works, but launching homebrew apps doesn't.
So you see there are some glitches. It's still no GBAMP when it comes to homebrew compatibility, but the developers really seem homebrew-friendly, so I guess we can hope that some of this gets fixed.
#112369 - Sunray - Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:24 pm
Ticklegirl or anything other that uses GBA memory (GBFS) won't work from Slot-1.
#112385 - Payk - Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:28 pm
Well i can confirm allmost everything.
But not the homebrew part. I made same way to update and test my apps.
It works on about 70% ...the other 30% it has blackscreens...
I guess it just works when doing minimal changes. Otherwhise the rom could land on a other part of the memory. I guess the ds-x just saves the adress for doing the instand boot...anyway...it should work with filename instead to avoid such stuff
What u said about the timing is right. Its a bit useless...my game has many files and folders at "/rd/"
The apps are usually saved in folder called "/apps/"...so when trying to start my rom (without instand boot) it reads the entiry flash-memory to search for roms. So it searches in im rd folder too. but there is a app-folder to avoid that. why they dont use it in that way? There are many things to be fixed but its a promissing device and testing never was easier for me.
#112578 - Gunnex - Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:30 am
| Quote: |
| it takes 9 seconds for listing the 30 homebrew apps/games |
Oh no, the world will end in nine seconds if my apps don't load! >:( Time is no big issue.
#112584 - ikaris - Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:08 am
| Gunnex wrote: |
Oh no, the world will end in nine seconds if my apps don't load! >:( Time is no big issue. |
It's not a big issue, if you're not dev'ing...
However, if you're compiling and loading your .NDS every few minutes... it starts to add up.
#112600 - Sunray - Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:03 pm
Use InstantBoot.
#112603 - NorQue - Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:27 pm
| Sunray wrote: |
| Use InstantBoot. |
From the first page of this thread:
| 0xtob wrote: |
| When trying to code with the DS-X I used a similar method to ikaris: Plugging in the device, copying my app to the DS-X via a script that also automatically unmounts it, pulling the cable and turning on the DS. My app is then automatically launched using the "Instant boot" option. So, I implemented a new feature in NitroTracker, wanted to test it and it just didn't work. I added some debug output to investigate why it wasn't working, but the output didn't even appear. It turned out that when the instant boot option is used, the DS-X does not boot the file off the card, but from some other internal memory. So when you overwrite the file on the DS-X, it still boots the old version until you disable instant boot and manually launch the app from the menu. |
#112606 - ikaris - Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:27 pm
See, I tried the Instant Boot on my DS-X and it caught the updated .NDS...
I just made a small change to my program, recompiled, wrote over the old .NDS, did a reboot with InstantBoot, and I saw the change.
So I don't know if I was doing something different...
#112608 - 0xtob - Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:55 pm
Interestingly, it suddenly started working for me too. But now about 30% of the time when using instant boot, I get white screens. I tried making DSFTP compatible with the DS-X by compiling it with the same fatlib that I use in NitroTracker (which works good on the DS-X), but I doesn't work for some reason. It's kind of a dodgy device, hope they do something about that.
I still believe the hardware has a lot of potential, but the software needs serious improvement. The best thing they could do would be to open the firmware for homebrewers.
Also: Nine seconds for entering the homebrew menu is a long time, at least if you're impatient like me. I just measured: From turning on the DS to launching a homebrew app, it takes about 30 seconds with the DS-X. Using the GBAMP and my devlauncher it takes about 10 seconds.
#112613 - sirpoonga - Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:24 pm
I have one too. I would just be repeating what others have said.
I did recently have mine crash for no reason. The ds wouldn't recognize it but it still was seen as a mass storage device by the PC. I was able to format it and run the firmware updater to get it working.
They really need to get the usb debugging thing out and some other improvements. If supercard's slot 1 solution comes out I might sell my dsx. They say they are supporting homebrew but I don't see that. They haven't released any fat info, little to no info on the usb debugger, and they don't reply to message on their homebrew forum. I see them reply to the general forum quite abit.
The device has been out for over 2 months now with little info. How do they expect homebrew to work or developers to use it if they don't release any info on it. I bought it in hopes they would have released the info a little sooner.
Supercard has at least shown they will help homebrewers out.
I don't think it will be hard to resell it though. They are hard to find so resale value should be high.
#112627 - OOPMan - Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:05 pm
The only problem with the SuperCard DS is that it doesn't have a USB port :-(
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#112648 - ikaris - Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:22 am
| 0xtob wrote: |
| I still believe the hardware has a lot of potential, but the software needs serious improvement. The best thing they could do would be to open the firmware for homebrewers. |
Agreed.
Well, its better than the hardware being fatally flawed :)
The fact that they have a decent bug report page is promising.
| OOPMan wrote: |
| The only problem with the SuperCard DS is that it doesn't have a USB port :-( |
Yep... thats one of the main reasons why I like the DS-X. Nice and simple. I don't want to have to buy a MicroSD and then swap it every time...
#112690 - OOPMan - Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:13 pm
No, the MicroSD is good as well...
Expandable storage is always useful...
What I would prefer would be a SLOT-2 SuperCard maybe the size of the MiniSD version featuring MicroSD, a mini-USB port and retaining the 32mb of RAM provided by most existing SCs.
For me that would be the best buck-for-bang solution...
The whole SLOT-1 craze is not something I care too nuch about. My DS is flashed and even when it wasn't using a NoPass wasn't a major hassle or anything...
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#112783 - ikaris - Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:43 am
| OOPMan wrote: |
No, the MicroSD is good as well...
Expandable storage is always useful... |
Personally, the size doesn't matter... I just want it for dev'ing... I could have 64 megs and that would be enough.
| OOPMan wrote: |
| What I would prefer would be a SLOT-2 SuperCard maybe the size of the MiniSD version featuring MicroSD, a mini-USB port and retaining the 32mb of RAM provided by most existing SCs. |
I agree about having a mini-USB...
I would only settle for MiniSD or MicroSD if it was accessible on the bottom... having to remove the Slot-2 card each time to get out the SD card (like in some of the older Slot-2 solutions) is even worse than a GBA Flash cart.
#112789 - tepples - Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:17 am
My biggest problem with these SLOT-1 cards (and with MAX Media Dock) is that all the GBA-mode software developed by the homebrew community becomes useless to somebody who can't afford a SLOT-2 card because he or she spent all of his or her money on a SLOT-1 card. If all the Chinese companies stop making SLOT-2 cards in favor of SLOT-1 cards, then what happens to the GBA scene? Will this be a big opportunity for KeithE to put in a few more orders for 100 carts at a time?
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#112790 - Firon - Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:15 am
Well, it is possible that some of these development teams will create some method of playing GBA with Slot-1 devices. I'm thinking of a slot-2 cart that has only PSRAM and SRAM, and the ROM is loaded onto it while in NDS mode, then it reboots into GBA. Probably wouldn't be much cheaper than just buying a full slot-2 cart, though...
In any case, I doubt they'll stop producing Slot-2 carts any time soon, precisely because people still want GBA.
#112796 - OOPMan - Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:02 am
I just don't see the appeal of SLOT-1, really...
The scene has developed, over the past year or two (Longer if you take GBA dev into account, which you should) to sue SLOT-2 cards. SLOT-2 has got the best support and as an interface for media devices provides more options. Expecting the scene to re-tool to support SLOT-1 devices just because they exist is stupid.
To me, SLOT-2 is superior. Sure, it may be a bit bigger, but it can still sit flush if you want (SC:Lite, M3:Lite, etc, etc). Also, the size of a SLOT-2 cart allows for more stuff to be placed in the cart. It's dubious as to whether SLOT-1 cart could ever carry a mini-USB plug and a microSD port without extending it out backwards in strange ways. The memory mapped nature of the GBA port also allows for stuff like usable extra RAM.
A SLOT-2 device with microSD and a mini-USB port could probably quite easily negate the need to swap the microSD card except when it filled up. (Music anyone?)
If it ever came to the point that the usual card producers (SC team, M3 team, etc) decided to stop producing SLOT-2 cards I think it would be necessary for the homebrew community to, somehow, set up it's own card production company producing SLOT-2 solutions dedicated to homebrew.
Hopefully it won't come to that, though :-)
Still, I'm not hopeful that the SC team will ever produce the SLOT-2 card I want...
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#112846 - Firon - Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:31 pm
The main appeal of Slot-1 is really just piracy related. Clean ROM support, download play and so on. Apart from that, I don't see any practical benefit Slot-1 would provide for homebrewing over Slot-2.
#112870 - sirpoonga - Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:09 pm
| Firon wrote: |
| Clean ROM support, download play and so on. |
Exactly. That's why I like my dsx. However, for developing since it lacks sram which many homebrew apps use.
An advantage of a slot 1 device is I can keep my rumble pak in the ds. I am going to play around with programming for the rumble pak, so it will be something slot 2 users won't be able to do. There are other GBA slot accessories for the ds from other games I might check out too.
An advantage of slot 2 is you can use the nds motion detector. well, you can with a slot 1 device you just have to take out your cart and put the detector in. If you have a dsx you can't reinsert it without the ds rebooting.
While the slot 1 device might have eeprom there is little information on how to use eeprom in the homebrew world.
#112893 - HyperHacker - Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:57 am
Both have a few advantages.
Slot 1:
-Smaller cards; if you have multiple cards (including official DS cards) this can be good.
-Slot 2 devices require either FlashMe, WifiMe, or a Slot 1 device to launch them in DS mode. Especially important if you want to lend it out or some such.
-Compatibility with official games. Yes it means easier piracy, but also means homebrew development can be made more like official development, which means generally more standardization and less hassle if you want to get your app published.
-Can keep Slot 2 devices installed such as rumble carts, or your favourite GBA game if you want to muck with its saved files.
-Less likely to stick out of the slot.
Slot 2:
-Can support CompactFlash.
-Plenty of room for extra RAM, USB etc, and memory-mapped design makes this easier.
-GBA compatibility is possible (both playing GBA games and using the card on GBA).
-Can keep Slot 1 devices installed such as motion sensors, or your favourite DS game if you want to muck with its saved files.
-No risk of poorly-designed hardware damaging the DS card loading mechanism (assuming you use FlashMe or a decent slot-1 device to launch).
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#112947 - dantheman - Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:49 pm
| HyperHacker wrote: |
| -No risk of poorly-designed hardware damaging the DS card loading mechanism. |
Unless of course your slot-1 passthrough device is poorly designed as well.
#112951 - OOPMan - Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:09 pm
Then don't buy a Max Media Launcher dan :-)
Or just use it to flash :-)
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#112982 - Lynx - Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:30 am
Actually, Last I had heard they had improved their card case quality. Of the people I have chatted with that purchased them recently, they have not noticed any issues with slot-1.
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#113106 - Balmung - Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:33 am
| HyperHacker wrote: |
| -Can keep Slot 2 devices installed such as rumble carts, or your favourite GBA game if you want to muck with its saved files. |
I think this is a really nice Thing, so Homebrew can use the RAM Enhancement of the Opera Browser. But Rumble is also nice. I have both Rumble and RAM Enhancement. Who knows what other GBA Slot Cards for DS Software came out in the Future or any Hardware Cracks develop own GBA Cards for DS Homebrew Software? With the bigger GBA Cards its easier.
GBA was nice, but DS is better and so Slot 1 Flashcards are the Future.
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#113139 - OOPMan - Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:58 pm
| Balmung wrote: |
| HyperHacker wrote: | | -Can keep Slot 2 devices installed such as rumble carts, or your favourite GBA game if you want to muck with its saved files. |
I think this is a really nice Thing, so Homebrew can use the RAM Enhancement of the Opera Browser. But Rumble is also nice. I have both Rumble and RAM Enhancement. Who knows what other GBA Slot Cards for DS Software came out in the Future or any Hardware Cracks develop own GBA Cards for DS Homebrew Software? With the bigger GBA Cards its easier.
GBA was nice, but DS is better and so Slot 1 Flashcards are the Future. |
I beg to disagree.
The Opera RAM extension is of marginal importance. It offers a very small amount of RAM (Somewhere between 4mb and 10mb) and is not exactly a well-documented device for homebrew use. On the other hand, the SC/M3/G6/etc offer 32mb of RAM and the info on using it is obtainable.
Rumble is cute but I can't say I ever considered it an important development by itself.
Whether any future funky official SLOT-2 devices will be released is dubious. There are some low-key ones available, but nothing that is a have-to-have piece of hardware.
SLOT-1 may be the future of piracy, but it won't make any in-roads into the homebrew scene until the manufacturers actually start releasing details on their FAT functionality and putting out the stuff in large numbers. Even so, I don't see the majority of homebrew developers buying SLOT-1 devices simply because the marketing fools print "The Future of Homebrew" on their boxes.
They need to do a bit more to actually interest homebrew devs, because the moment none of the SLOT-1 solutions really offers any benefits to the developer and most of them seem to have numerous issues.
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#113142 - tepples - Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:30 pm
| OOPMan wrote: |
| They need to do a bit more to actually interest homebrew devs, because the moment none of the SLOT-1 solutions really offers any benefits to the developer |
Including continued availability once the demand for GBA compatible products diminishes?
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#113151 - OOPMan - Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:31 pm
Now that would be bad...
SLOT-1 devices remain hard to get while SLOT-2 ones die out...
Hmmmm....
I dunno...
I'm not sure the demand for SLOT-2 devices will die anytime soon, since they continue to offer good features at a good price...
Ah well, we'll just have to see...
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#113153 - tepples - Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:51 pm
I've been in the GBA homebrew scene since 2002, and GBC flash cards had died before then.
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#113159 - wintermute - Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:31 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| I've been in the GBA homebrew scene since 2002, and GBC flash cards had died before then. |
Totally different situation.
You couldn't ever run GBA homebrew with GBC carts but you can run DS homebrew from GBA carts. The other situation we have is that some DS hombrew is using GBA cart space for extra storage so it's likely that there will remain a demand for GBA slot devices while the DS is still going strong.
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#113160 - OOPMan - Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:04 pm
That's what we can hope, anyway...
SLOT-1 carts don't seem to offer much over SLOT-2 carts homebrew-wise, but then and again, the manufacturers do not produce primarily with homebrew in mind...
I guess we can just hope that SLOT-2 devices don't disappear overnight...
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#113193 - Sektor - Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:37 am
Slot 2 devices are going to be made for a few more years. The biggest threat to slot 2 devices, would be Nintendo releasing a new thinner DS without a GBA slot or a totally new portable.
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#114449 - dantheman - Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:47 am
Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I found this to be rather interesting. It seems that the DS-X team doesn't think it's worthwhile to release drivers or even a DLDI file because it is apparently the fault of the DS developers that their programs don't work on the device. Riiight...
http://forums.ds-xtreme.com/showthread.php?t=2059
#114453 - 0xtob - Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:40 am
The guy said they're planning a driver release, although he thinks it's pointless to do so. Well, I'm waiting.