#132040 - norfair - Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:09 pm
This new version of the CycloDS came out recently, and I'm wondering about one "feature" they advertise here:
| Quote: |
| - Excellent homebrew compatibility thanks to the DLDI auto-patcher |
Has anyone tried it yet?
#132050 - dantheman - Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:53 pm
A review at a site I probably am not allowed to mention states that of the programs he tested, only DSLinux didn't work. I'll quote it:
| Quote: |
A Touch Of War ? Works
DSLinux ? Not Working
DSMaster (Master System emulator) - Works
Puzzle Maniak ? Works
Warcraft: Tower Defense ? Works
Lameboy (GB/GBC Emulator) ? Works
nesDS (NES emulator) ? Works
Omalone ? Works
Picodrive DS (Megadrive/Genesis emulator) - Works
snesDS (SNES emulator) ? Works |
#132064 - coolbho3000 - Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:24 pm
The new R4DS 1.10 does DLDI autopatching as well. :)
#132093 - felix123 - Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:44 am
The NCard and clones also have autopatch.
_________________
Nintendo DS homebrew on Wikipedia
#132153 - Sweater Fish Deluxe - Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:37 pm
According to the review dantheman mentioned, autopatching on the card itself was actually the way Chism intended the DLDI system to be used. I've never heard that before, is it true?
Anyway, I just ordered a CycloDS yesterday, so I'm looking forward to getting it. I really like the fact that the development team are so open to suggestions for improvement from their community. That's a nice feature for a flash card in my opinion because I always have lots of ideas for simple improvement that could be made to flash cards.
...word is bondage...
#132156 - tepples - Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:55 pm
| Sweater Fish Deluxe wrote: |
| According to the review dantheman mentioned, autopatching on the card itself was actually the way Chism intended the DLDI system to be used. |
Unless the DLDI that a card's boot loader installs has defective drivers.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#132159 - dantheman - Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:30 pm
That's exactly why I've been a bit skeptical of DLDI autopatching. Granted, in the case of the N-card clones it was good because it gave us a DLDI file with full read/write capability as opposed to our read-only one, but what happens when the homebrew community develops one that works better than the built-in one? Can such a feature be disabled until a firmware update includes the newer file? Would the autopatcher respect a "read-only" attribute applied to the .nds file?
The Autopatching makes it easier for new users who wouldn't understand why ProgramName is telling them to put filename in in the root of their card when they already did, but it could create potential problems in the future.
#132161 - tepples - Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:37 pm
| dantheman wrote: |
| The Autopatching makes it easier for new users who wouldn't understand why ProgramName is telling them to put filename in in the root of their card when they already did |
Different error messages for fatInitDefault() failure and fopen() failure would help solve this problem.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#132178 - chishm - Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:11 am
I have always intended DLDI to allow for autopatching, as it simplifies things for end users and makes homebrew apps as easy to use as commercial ones.
If you don't want the card to DLDI patch a file, you could always remove the magic DLDI string from the file, making it unpatchable. Look for the byte sequence ED A5 8D BF 20 43 68 69 73 68 6D 00 01 0B 0C 00 (0xBF8DA5ED followed by " Chishm" with a NUL terminator). Corrupting that header should stop the patcher from finding the DLDI section.
_________________
http://chishm.drunkencoders.com
http://dldi.drunkencoders.com
#132996 - Bojangles - Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:22 pm
I sold my M3 when my wife and I had a baby (I knew there'd be no time to program), but every day the little rug rat gives me a little more time :-)
So now I hope to pick up a CycloDS Evolution to start hacking around on.
My question - is this kit OSX friendly? I have a windows laptop, but I'd prefer to have a "home base" at my desktop mac.
Also - is this a good purchase? Should I trade in my DS original and get a Lite?
#136699 - MechaBouncer - Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:59 pm
To those that bought the CycloDS Evo: How do you like it? Any homebrew compatibility issues besides DSLinux (and has there been any more word on that)? Do you feel the extra features are justified for the price? Is there anything you flat out hate about it? Thanks.
_________________
Cobalt/Black NDSL
CycloDS Evolution (firmware 1.55 BETA 3) and EZFlash 3-in-1
Kingston SD-C02G JAPAN 2GB MicroSD
MoonShell 1.71, DSOrganize 3.1129, QuakeDS Pre3, ScummVM DS 0.11.1, Pocket Physics 0.6, OpenTyrian DS 0.3
#136848 - Sweater Fish Deluxe - Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:33 pm
Actually, yes there are other compatibility problems. I've been meaning to post about this and ask what the likely cause of the problkem was, but I wanted to do more testing first.
I haven't yet gotten around to compiling specific tests, but it seems like PAFS and GBFS do not work at all with this card. Homebrews that use either of those embedded file systems will begin to load up, but report that they cannot find their files. EFS does seem to work, though.
Does anyone know what the problem might be here? I think I remember hearing that one or both of those file systems also don't work with the GBAMP, so maybe the reason for the incompatibility is known in the community (assuming it's the same or a similar problem with both cards).
The other downside of the CycloDS for homebrew is that since the card uses automatic DLDI patching, they haven't released a DLDI driver file for it. This means that apps like DSChannels or the homebrew launching feature of DSOrganize can't be used. Nobody has asked Team Cyclops to release the driver, though, so maybe they would, I don't know. (In fact, I'll go ask on their forums right now.)
The R4 now supports automatic DLDI patching and also the main non-homebrew (i.e. piracy) related selling point that the CycloDS had when it was released, so I don't really know if there's any solid reasons to pick a CycloDS over an R4 any more, considering the price difference.
The one thing that the CycloDS still has going for it is a really open and responsive development team. They have a suggetsions forum on their website and they really seem to be listening to people's suggestions. They haven't released a new firmware since shortly after the card launched, but it will be very interesting to see how many of the user suggestions are implemented when they do put out a new one. Many nice features have been suggested, though most of those wouldn't really be necessary (or even applicable) to homebrews. The CycloDS could end up having the most fully customizable GUI of any card, though, which in my opinion would be a really nice feature.
I'm totally happy with my CycloDS, but maybe I'd be just as happy (and $30 richer) if I'd gotten an R4.
...word is bondage...
#136851 - tepples - Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:47 pm
| Sweater Fish Deluxe wrote: |
I haven't yet gotten around to compiling specific tests, but it seems like PAFS and GBFS do not work at all with this card. Homebrews that use either of those embedded file systems will begin to load up, but report that they cannot find their files. EFS does seem to work, though.
Does anyone know what the problem might be here? I think I remember hearing that one or both of those file systems also don't work with the GBAMP |
Appended GBFS is intended for use with GBA ROM or RAM in SLOT-2. SLOT-1 cards don't provide this memory space unless you use the EZ-Flash 3-in-1. But you can store a separate GBFS, malloc() the space for it, and load it that way instead of calling find_first_gbfs_file().
| Quote: |
| The other downside of the CycloDS for homebrew is that since the card uses automatic DLDI patching, they haven't released a DLDI driver file for it. This means that apps like DSChannels or the homebrew launching feature of DSOrganize can't be used. Nobody has asked Team Cyclops to release the driver, though, so maybe they would, I don't know. (In fact, I'll go ask on their forums right now.) |
I seem to remember one of the .nds loaders (was it Chishm's?) being able to copy the running DLDI file into the .nds that it loads.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#136935 - MechaBouncer - Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:45 pm
I've only seen a price difference of $10, but there is one more feature that has me rather curious: MicroSDHC support. While I'm fine with 2GB cards for most things, I wonder if it might be worth the better future-proving to spend the extra money? Maybe not. I've yet to fill up my 2GB SD card I've been using for Moonshell and they're inexpensive enough to just buy another one. I'm also wondering if the ability to reset from the ABXYLR menu can be used for homebrew to soft-reset it? Or is it not accessible from homebrew? The SuperCard DS One now offers something like this.
Holy crap! I need to start checking the DLDI Wiki instead of the old page that's no longer maintained:
http://dldi.drunkencoders.com/index.php?title=CycloDS_Evolution_%28microSD%29
I wonder how it works with the new DLDI tester app:
http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?t=13856
_________________
Cobalt/Black NDSL
CycloDS Evolution (firmware 1.55 BETA 3) and EZFlash 3-in-1
Kingston SD-C02G JAPAN 2GB MicroSD
MoonShell 1.71, DSOrganize 3.1129, QuakeDS Pre3, ScummVM DS 0.11.1, Pocket Physics 0.6, OpenTyrian DS 0.3
#136957 - Sweater Fish Deluxe - Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:07 pm
No, the softreset feature doesn't work with homebrew. The "Enhanced Mode" menu where you can select soft reset and change the backlight brightness and stuff like that doesn't work with homebrew. That's something else I've been meaning to ask about on their forum, though.
Apparently the DLDI file you linked to at DrunkenCoders is mislabeled. It's actually the DLDI driver for CycloDS's slot-2 card. But I posted on the Team Cyclops forum asking if they'd release the driver for the Evolution so that we can use apps like DSOrganize and DSChannels and the moderator said they would. Their DLDI driver does pass the DLDI Tester tests, by the way.
They also released a new firmware today which is supposed to fix the problem with DSLinux, though I haven't tested to make sure it works. The new firmware is considered a "beta" since they weren't able to get a certain feature working that they promised would be present in the 1.2 firmware, but they wanted to release the firmware anyway since it has a number of other features people have been asking for.
[QUOTE=tepples]Appended GBFS is intended for use with GBA ROM or RAM in SLOT-2. SLOT-1 cards don't provide this memory space unless you use the EZ-Flash 3-in-1. But you can store a separate GBFS, malloc() the space for it, and load it that way instead of calling find_first_gbfs_file(). [/QUOTE]
Ah, okay, that makes sense. Does PAFS work the same way or should those homebrews work on slot-1 cards?
...word is bondage...
#136961 - MechaBouncer - Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:26 pm
I just found that same topic you're referring to:
http://www.teamcyclops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8817
So the DLDI Wiki will need to be updated accordingly.
You know, perhaps I should join up on that forum. The DLDI driver is my primary concern on whether to purchase a CycloDS Evo or a R4. The R4 seems to have the most support with homebrew so far, but there's a lot of potential with the CycloDS Evo that I can't ignore.
One more thing. Can their modified version of Moonshell launch homebrew apps, or do the apps still need to be patched individually in order to run because of the missing loader?
And thanks. You've been of great help in narrowing down my purchase. I guess it's a good thing my R4 order was cancelled. =)
And look what else I found:
http://www.teamcyclops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=514
It seems someone already suggested support for soft reset in all homebrew. It would probably be worth mentioning that SuperCard is doing this now. Might have a bit more incentive to make it happen.
_________________
Cobalt/Black NDSL
CycloDS Evolution (firmware 1.55 BETA 3) and EZFlash 3-in-1
Kingston SD-C02G JAPAN 2GB MicroSD
MoonShell 1.71, DSOrganize 3.1129, QuakeDS Pre3, ScummVM DS 0.11.1, Pocket Physics 0.6, OpenTyrian DS 0.3
#137009 - felix123 - Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:42 am
PAFS is also slot2 only.
_________________
Nintendo DS homebrew on Wikipedia
#137496 - ps2aich - Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:04 pm
| MechaBouncer wrote: |
You know, perhaps I should join up on that forum. The DLDI driver is my primary concern on whether to purchase a CycloDS Evo or a R4. The R4 seems to have the most support with homebrew so far, but there's a lot of potential with the CycloDS Evo that I can't ignore. |
One important feature regarding DLDI imho is, whether the DLDI
driver has proper initialization code. Some drivers simply do no initialization (e.g. R4DS),
which is a problem when using WMB to transfer libfat-enabled
programs to the NDS: they simply do not work then, since the
SD card is not initialized.
Therefore I decided recently to purchase an EZ-V, which has
proper initialization code , so I can do a 'make - dldipatch - wmb'
chain for development.
For DLDI driver without source it is difficult to decide, tough.
#137666 - MechaBouncer - Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:52 pm
Could that have anything to do with the fact that system files need to be placed on the memory card itself versus everything OS-related being on the internal firmware of the flashcart? Or does it not matter?
Oh and nobody answered my other question:
| MechaBouncer wrote: |
| One more thing. Can their modified version of Moonshell launch homebrew apps, or do the apps still need to be patched individually in order to run because of the missing loader? |
_________________
Cobalt/Black NDSL
CycloDS Evolution (firmware 1.55 BETA 3) and EZFlash 3-in-1
Kingston SD-C02G JAPAN 2GB MicroSD
MoonShell 1.71, DSOrganize 3.1129, QuakeDS Pre3, ScummVM DS 0.11.1, Pocket Physics 0.6, OpenTyrian DS 0.3
#137688 - Sweater Fish Deluxe - Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:55 pm
| MechaBouncer wrote: |
| One more thing. Can their modified version of Moonshell launch homebrew apps, or do the apps still need to be patched individually in order to run because of the missing loader? |
I haven't actually tried, but I think it's safe to assume that it does not apply the Evolution DLDI driver to homebrews (it should work fine with other homebrew, though). The only source change they mention having made to Moonshell was to remove the unnecessary warning screen that gets displayed briefly during boot up.
...word is bondage...
#138247 - MechaBouncer - Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:32 pm
Hooray! Team Cyclops released a BETA DLDI driver for the CycloDS Evo! You can get it here:
http://www.cyclopsds.com/downloads/CycloEvoDLDI_v1.0.zip
It is worth mentioning that it does not properly initialize SDHC cards:
| TeamCyclops wrote: |
| Hrm, there is one problem with this DLDI driver. The driver relies on a flag getting set by the loader to tell it if you're using a SDHC card or not. It doesnt detect this internally. Therefore, this DLDI driver will not work with SDHC MicroSD's. I'll work on a fix, but in the meantime, the DLDI driver posted should be considered BETA ONLY! |
Here's the original topic:
http://www.teamcyclops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11382#post11382
_________________
Cobalt/Black NDSL
CycloDS Evolution (firmware 1.55 BETA 3) and EZFlash 3-in-1
Kingston SD-C02G JAPAN 2GB MicroSD
MoonShell 1.71, DSOrganize 3.1129, QuakeDS Pre3, ScummVM DS 0.11.1, Pocket Physics 0.6, OpenTyrian DS 0.3
#138271 - dantheman - Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:59 am
Beta or not, it's always refreshing to see a manufacturer actively work with the homebrew community *COdatelUGH*
Of course, the cart already has a DLDI autopatcher, correct? Are they providing this so developers can release pre-patched versions or something? Maybe it's like the R4 in that a very few homebrew programs don't always work with the autopatcher, so manually patching can ensure that it works.
#138273 - MechaBouncer - Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:55 am
Yeah. Sweater Fish Deluxe requested that they release it for the loader apps like DSO and DSChannels or anything else that doesn't work with the autopatching. I added my voice to it and a few more people chimed in. I'm really starting to like Team Cyclops and their support. It's a factor that really swayed me to buy one.
_________________
Cobalt/Black NDSL
CycloDS Evolution (firmware 1.55 BETA 3) and EZFlash 3-in-1
Kingston SD-C02G JAPAN 2GB MicroSD
MoonShell 1.71, DSOrganize 3.1129, QuakeDS Pre3, ScummVM DS 0.11.1, Pocket Physics 0.6, OpenTyrian DS 0.3
#139466 - MechaBouncer - Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:54 pm
There's a new CycloDS Evolution driver out now in this topic:
http://www.teamcyclops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1203&page=4
Here's what TeamCyclops reports:
| TeamCyclops wrote: |
We've just uploaded v1.1 of the DLDI driver for CycloDS Evolution. Download it here. There have been quite a few changes from the last file released, most notably:
* Now contains full SD init code. This means it will work with both standard and SDHC MicroSD cards, and it should work with homebrew executed via WMB (untested) or other alternative loading methods, allowing you to completely bypass loading through the CycloDS Evolution GUI if you wish. We've personally tested the driver by loading homebrew from slot2 CycloDS, which works fine.
* Various workarounds are included to enable support for the various ways in which 3rd party loaders use the DLDI driver. Its been tested to work with DSOrganise (Chishm loading method only), DSChannels and Chishm's standalone loader.
This is the same DLDI driver which is included in the new v1.2 BETA #3 firmware. Unless you're not using CycloDS Evolution to actually load your homebrew (which would be the case if you're executing code via WMB) then you dont actually need to manually patch anything, even in the case of 3rd party loaders. |
I've tested it with Chishm's NDS_loader, DSOrganize 2.9, and DSChannels Beta 5. NDS_loader and DSO launch and run without issue, but apps launched from DSChannels can't read from the memory card unless they are manually DLDI patched. Considering that DSO seems to permanently patch what it launches, all that needs to be done is launch them from DSO once and they'll work. I'd say this is a pretty substantial update!
_________________
Cobalt/Black NDSL
CycloDS Evolution (firmware 1.55 BETA 3) and EZFlash 3-in-1
Kingston SD-C02G JAPAN 2GB MicroSD
MoonShell 1.71, DSOrganize 3.1129, QuakeDS Pre3, ScummVM DS 0.11.1, Pocket Physics 0.6, OpenTyrian DS 0.3
#142823 - MarioMan94 - Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:53 am
Does anyone know if DS Linux will ever work on CycloDS? i'm just wondering because Cyclops seems to be doing a lot of work with their firmware.
#142828 - MechaBouncer - Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:41 am
The Slot-2 CycloDS, or the Slot-1 CycloDS Evolution? The latest firmware 1.2 for the Evo works with DSLinux.
_________________
Cobalt/Black NDSL
CycloDS Evolution (firmware 1.55 BETA 3) and EZFlash 3-in-1
Kingston SD-C02G JAPAN 2GB MicroSD
MoonShell 1.71, DSOrganize 3.1129, QuakeDS Pre3, ScummVM DS 0.11.1, Pocket Physics 0.6, OpenTyrian DS 0.3
#143134 - Imprompt - Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:10 am
Can also confirm DSlinux runs on the latest firware, including pixel :)