#95729 - HtheB - Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:51 pm
the poll says it ^^
(last time I did something wrong :P but its now fixed xD)
#95741 - JaJa - Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:45 pm
Pastafarianism.
Let him touch you with his noodly appendage!
I like Pastafarianism (Ramen), although I don't publicly support it (it's more difficult to wear a pirate costume all day then you think).
Seriously I like to think there is something or someone watching over us all, but really I think science is the way forward and religons are nothing but trouble.
They've caused more pain and death than things like politics and they end up surviving because people are indoctrinated at a young age (ever remember you parents asking if you wanted to be Christian/Muslim/Atheist/etc?) without being given a choice.
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#95759 - Optihut - Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:55 pm
| JaJa wrote: |
| Pastafarianism. |
The IPU would kick your pasta god's butt!
#95769 - tepples - Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:10 am
| JaJa wrote: |
| I like Pastafarianism (Ramen), although I don't publicly support it (it's more difficult to wear a pirate costume all day then you think). |
Take it to Pocket Heaven? ;-)
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#95934 - HtheB - Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:14 pm
| JaJa wrote: |
| religons are nothing but trouble. |
I think its actually not.. only we "make" trouble about it :(
#95952 - Linkiboy - Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:33 pm
I'm... Christian Orthodox. Although I'm not really the most religious person in the world, I don't go to Church or anything...
#96033 - HtheB - Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:40 pm
| Linkiboy wrote: |
| I'm... Christian Orthodox. Although I'm not really the most religious person in the world, I don't go to Church or anything... |
well.. I pray 5 times a day xD (well.. at least I'm trying ^^)
#96050 - Dwedit - Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:02 am
I'm actually Jewish-Atheist, so where does that go?
It's nice to celebrate Hanukkah, Passover, and such and not need to believe in any of it. :)
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#96054 - clone dad - Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:40 am
I'm catholic.
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#96088 - Fatnickc - Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:32 am
'By blood' and all that I'm Jewish, but by choice I'm a staunch atheist.
#96107 - HtheB - Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:01 pm
Im a muslim xD
#96164 - sgeos - Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:10 pm
I'm "I don't care". I'll deal with the next world when and if I get there, when it's important, if it's important. Until then, I'll deal with this world. Note the difference between "I don't care" and atheism. I neither believe nor disbelieve in god(s), supernatural entities or anything else you want to throw at me.
Anyone want to convert? =) (j/k)
-Brendan
#96191 - tepples - Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:29 pm
sgeos: That's called "agnosticism".
But not doing anything in this life to further your next life will hurt you if Christianity, Islam, or Hinduism turns out to be true. These religions believe that you are rewarded or punished in your next life for what you do in this life.
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-- Where is he?
-- Who?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#96232 - sgeos - Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:22 pm
Agonostics will believe given proof. I still won't care. There is a difference. =)
-Brendan
#96240 - takieda - Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:15 am
technical term is Vaishnavism, but it's also known as the Hare Krishna's (that's pronounced HAH-ray KRISH-nuh). Think - similar to hindu... kind of like another denomination.
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#96247 - tepples - Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:14 am
| takieda wrote: |
| technical term is Vaishnavism, but it's also known as the Hare Krishna's (that's pronounced HAH-ray KRISH-nuh). Think - similar to hindu... kind of like another denomination. |
What about the "Dulang" sect of Vaishnavism?
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-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#96494 - gauauu - Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:21 pm
| sgeos wrote: |
Agonostics will believe given proof. I still won't care. There is a difference. =)
-Brendan |
Not that there's really any way to prove anything, but the statement that you wouldn't care given proof is a pretty brave one.
I, for one, would think that if it was proved without a doubt to me that I would be tortured for eternity if I didn't live my life here a certain way, I'd be pretty dang quick to try to live that way. (I'd posit that you'd be stupid not to). You'd have to be a fool or incredibly brave to NOT care about eternal reward/punishment, IF it were a proven thing (which it probably never will be)
I think for most people, it comes down to the fact that, whether you are religious or don't care, it's pretty much impossible for us to prove or disprove most religious ideas.
#96525 - sgeos - Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:09 pm
| gauauu wrote: |
| You'd have to be a fool or incredibly brave to NOT care about eternal reward/punishment, IF it were a proven thing (which it probably never will be) |
Humans are arrogant. Many if not most religions have this human centric view of the universe that just seems silly to me.
Consider:
There is not designer. The universe just is.
In this case, life is what you make of it. You can be a saint. Cool. You can wage wars. Sucks for them. In the end, everyone is going to die and that is the end. Feels kind of... empty doesn't it? That is the reason why a whole bunch of people don't want believe this.
Consider:
There is a designer, but humans are insignificant to the designer.
A divine designer made the universe. Why? Bored maybe? Science fair project? Who knows, but it wasn't made *for* the current dominant species of one planet in the universe. We were just a side effect. The designer may have glanced this way once or twice but there is so much more to see. When we die we're certainly not going to have to answer to the designer. We are not the point of the universe.
Consider:
False gods that collect followers and break promises.
Who says that divine beings can't lie. Holy books? Fiction? The divine beings themselves? What if divine (or least superhuman) beings prop themselves up as gods and collect followers. Then they promise eternal happiness to get people to sign up. After you sign up and arrive in the next world, you find out that it is nothing like what was promised. Politicians trick hopeful people all the time. Who is to say that supernatural beings can't and don't do the same?
Consider:
Heaven and hell don't exist. The love of the One True Creator is actually unconditional.
They say that you can rule by love or fear. Heaven and hell sound like scare tactics to me. God loves you, so don't do bad things doesn't pack much of a punch. Ok... ruling by love didn't work. Let's try fear. If you do bad things, you will go to hell *forever*. You will suffer for an eternity. Think about it, 60 years as a good person now, or an eternity of eternal suffering in the flames of hell. Much better! I think people will pay attention. That doesn't sound like unconditional love to me. It sounds more like something that people made to keep other people in line. If there is One True Creator, I'd like to believe that this creator loves the diversity of universe, and doesn't make arbitrary judgements based of morals of any given society or religion.
Consider:
Heaven and hell exist, but the divine standard is completely different from the human standard.
Who says that the criteria for entry into heaven or hell can even be understood by humans? Alright, why do you believe them? The divine standard might be so simple or so complex or so odd that humans couldn't even make sense of it.
Consider:
You keep replaying your life until you get it right.
Same scenario, you lose your memory each game. =)
Consider:
Life is score based.
Who knows, longest life? Actual life span over potential life span? Most offspring? Most interesting life? Least percentage of time sleeping? Some other really complex algorithm?
Consider:
When you die, you are born again as all the people you ever met.
You'll break out of a reincarnation loop when the planet dies.
Given these possibilities (some of which do not conflict) and whole bunch of others I could list or invent (some of which I did), how am I supposed to decide what to believe? Even given proof, can I trust it? It might be the divine word of the One True Creator. A demon might be tricking me. A benevolent supernatural entity might be trying to help me. I might just be insane.
You say I'm brave? I don't think so. I don't see any other reasonable response. Worrying about such things now is silly. I'm going on a trip in two days. I'll stay in a hotel for two days and worry about where to stay the last day when I get there. I'll worry about the next world, if there is one, when I get there. No point worrying about something that might not exist. If there is some judge who is going to punish me for that, I can't see it is a good and positive entity.
-Brendan
#96556 - HtheB - Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 pm
Imagine...
you got a table.. with 4 legs (dont know excatly the english word...)
cut 2 of it.. and the table will fall...
place another table with 2 legs under the other one... and it will fall again...
at the end, there have to be a table with 4 legs....
Imagine...
A locomotive.. you can have many wagons.. but it wont move without the "head" part of it..
That is just like the earth is.. there is something that is "ruling" it.. if there was no ruler.. this earth wouldnt even exist :)
some call it God, some Allah, some call it something else..
+++++
There is no book without an author.
There is no clothes without a "maker".
Then why will it be possible to have the world without a ruler??
++++
Imagine..
if everybody was in peace in this world:
There will be no reason to live... This life is like a examn.. The one who lived good (relegion?) will pass.. and the other will fail...
or what do you think?
you came here to just live?? just to go to sleep, to work, to eat, to go to the toilet, and die???
There is WAY MORE to find out in this life :)
#96562 - tepples - Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:28 pm
| HtheB wrote: |
| There is no book without an author. |
Beowulf? Author unknown. What about any other book published before 1923? Those have an author but not a "ruler" (copyright owner).
| Quote: |
| This life is like a examn.. The one who lived good (relegion?) will pass.. and the other will fail... |
Exactly. This world is a stress test for souls.
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-- Who?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#96563 - HtheB - Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:31 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| HtheB wrote: | | There is no book without an author. |
Beowulf? Author unknown. What about any other book published before 1923? Those have an author but not a "ruler" (copyright owner). |
Even if the author is unknown... there IS an author.. There is no way that someone just dropped accidently ink on a piece paper which became a book.. (lol)
What I want to tell is.. there is a maker on everything..
so.. there must be a maker of the earth, life and the entire universe too :)
#96566 - tepples - Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:48 pm
| HtheB wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | HtheB wrote: | | There is no book without an author. |
Beowulf? Author unknown. What about any other book published before 1923? Those have an author but not a "ruler" (copyright owner). |
Even if the author is unknown... there IS an author.. There is no way that someone just dropped accidently ink on a piece paper which became a book.. (lol)
What I want to tell is.. there is a maker on everything..
so.. there must be a maker of the earth, life and the entire universe too :) |
Atheists' retort: Who made the maker?
Deists' retort: Maker doesn't imply ruler. Old books by Charles Dickens, the Grimm brothers, and Carlo Collodi have an author, but they have no ruler (that is, copyright owner). Deists view God as a clockmaker: It took six days for God to create the universe, after which He rested, and He is still resting.
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#96589 - MrD - Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:17 am
| Quote: |
| Deists view God as a clockmaker: It took six days for God to create the universe, after which He rested, and He is still resting. |
He's not resting, he's still debugging the blasted thing.
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#96607 - sgeos - Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:53 am
Or the creator is working on Version 2. Who is to say that this universe is even worth paying attention to once created?
-Brendan
#96611 - tepples - Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:56 am
| sgeos wrote: |
| Or the creator is working on Version 2. |
This belief is the case in Christianity. Heaven and Earth will be redone from the ground up, including the City of New Jerusalem shaped like a gigantic Borg cube. Jesus, through His sacrifice on the cross, has invited all people to be assimilated into the Kingdom. (This is what Christians actually believe.)
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-- Who?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#96619 - sgeos - Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:52 am
If that is case, I hope there is not a vendor monopoly. =)
-Brendan
#96620 - clone dad - Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:00 am
God gave everyone a free will....you choose heaven, or you choose hell. that's it. you choose heaven by doing God's will. you choose hell by sinning.
my advice is, when you're about to sin, think about the desicion you're leaning towards
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#96686 - JaJa - Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:14 pm
| MrD wrote: |
| Quote: | | Deists view God as a clockmaker: It took six days for God to create the universe, after which He rested, and He is still resting. |
He's not resting, he's still debugging the blasted thing. |
Boy are we in trouble when the support contract runs out :P
Some things to think about here, mostly said by sgeos.
Unless you think on some level that there is something out there, that we do have a purpose, you'd feel empty and worthless.
Religon is a way to explain things that happen, or at least it was before science.
"Why did that mountain explode in fire and ash?"
"To punish those that sin"
NOT as we now know because of tectonic actions (caused by unseen magma flows).
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#96708 - tepples - Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:23 pm
| JaJa wrote: |
"Why did that mountain explode in fire and ash?"
"To punish those that sin"
NOT as we now know because of tectonic actions (caused by unseen magma flows). |
Theists' retort: So who pushed the magma toward the one mountain closest to an epidemic of immorality?
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-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#96710 - spinal_cord - Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:40 pm
| HtheB wrote: |
if there was no ruler.. this earth wouldnt even exist :)
|
Thats just insane. So because we're here, then there has to be someone ruling us(god(s))?
Religions teach us to be better people, to get on with eachother, to behave. But dispite (or because of) the thousands of religions we still missbehave, we dont get on, we wage wars, we kill for no reason, we torture people and animals.
If there were no religions, we would be closer to civilisation. It will be many hundreds if not thousands of years (if we last that long) before humans will be civil to eachother. So give up religion now, then there will be thousand less reasons for people to hate eachother.
Besides there are squillions of stars out there, most of them with planets, some of those planets with life (estimated by scientists that about .002% of planets in the univers will have life, and like bill gates' bank account, .002% is a realy realy huge number) then why do these holy books, some apparently spoken by a god him/herself, no mention any of these? and even refuse dinosaurs? could it be because all religions were made up by people, perhaps as a way to controll them?
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#96718 - takieda - Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:58 pm
Perhaps not all "holy books" fall under the same category as you describe spinal_cord.
If you want a scientific analysis of the universe and of our own planet (history, pre-history, et al), in a religious light, look up anything by Michael Cremo - all his knowledge comes from books FAR older than our contemporary textbooks.
Unfortunately, all I can find right now is a book on evolution (Human Devolution: A Vedic Alternative to Darwin's Theory), and its predecessor, a catalog of anomalous findings that don't fit in with the contemporary view of history (Forbidden Archaeology). There's another one I'm trying to find about astronomy, but I'm having a difficult time locating it. (you can find the other two easily at amazon, or barnes & noble.)
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#96858 - kevinc - Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:21 am
| Quote: |
| Besides there are squillions of stars out there, most of them with planets, some of those planets with life (estimated by scientists that about .002% of planets in the univers will have life, and like bill gates' bank account, .002% is a realy realy huge number) then why do these holy books, some apparently spoken by a god him/herself, no mention any of these? |
Because they aren't true believers. Once we know where they are, we can convert those nasty heathens into honest, God fearing Christians. And only then they'll be worthy to be included in the Bible.
| spinal_cord wrote: |
| and even refuse dinosaurs? |
For the same reason they didn't speak about crickets, sparrows or elephants. They were a common sight for humans 3000 years ago, so they didn't feel the need to mention them. Too bad they went extint after the Flood, but God needed place for his other Intelligently Designed creations.
/my unnecessary post of the day
//need to learn to troll better
#96865 - tepples - Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:05 am
Of course the Judeo-Christian Old Testament speaks of dinosaurs:
Source: "Dinosaurs and the Bible".
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-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#97443 - gauauu - Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:33 pm
| sgeos wrote: |
You say I'm brave? I don't think so. I don't see any other reasonable response. Worrying about such things now is silly. |
I don't think you read my post completely. No, I don't say you are brave, because nothing has been proven about religion. Nor will it likely be. My point was that IF it COULD be proven, then you'd be brave to ignore it then. (as your previous post mentioned, you wouldn't care even if it was proven to be true).
All of your counter examples are further example of how things AREN'T proven, which is a point I"m not arguing :)
#97467 - Dan2552 - Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:24 pm
I pressed the wrong button (the bottom one..)
I meant Atheist
#97769 - sgeos - Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:50 pm
As my friend says, hard core athiests are the most religious of all. They don't even participate in Xmas for candy. =)
-Brendan
#98390 - sumiguchi - Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:35 am
A good heathen like myself knows that you should never talk about politics or religion...someone is bound to get offended....
:P
#98392 - darkfader - Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:38 am
I'm raised as a Christian wether I like it or not ;)
There must be a God but that's about it.
Oh btw. I'm Dutch. (from the Netherlands)
#98403 - sgeos - Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:01 am
| sumiguchi wrote: |
| you should never talk about politics or religion... |
That crossed my mind more than once. It probably applies multiple times over if you live in a theocracy. =)
-Brendan
#98879 - MrD - Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:03 am
| sumiguchi wrote: |
A good heathen like myself knows that you should never talk about politics or religion...someone is bound to get offended....
:P |
The other reason is that somebody will inevitably link to here.
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#98975 - HtheB - Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:04 pm
| MrD wrote: |
| sumiguchi wrote: | A good heathen like myself knows that you should never talk about politics or religion...someone is bound to get offended....
:P |
The other reason is that somebody will inevitably link to here. |
whoaaa :D
#99071 - Dwedit - Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:10 pm
| sgeos wrote: |
As my friend says, hard core athiests are the most religious of all. They don't even participate in Xmas for candy. =)
-Brendan |
I guess that make me a softcore atheist. I still celebrate Christmas, Hanukkah, Passover, and Yom Kippur. Well, sort-of, you can't really celebrate that last one, and I don't fast for it.
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#99506 - sgeos - Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:31 am
Clear you should be a more... uh, devout atheist? =)
-Brendan
#99515 - InF3Rnus - Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:48 am
I'm Catholic :) yay go me rofl
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#100620 - Payk - Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:46 pm
Even my name is Christian, and my grandma is jewish...I am a proud Atheist
#100621 - Payk - Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:49 pm
#100650 - keldon - Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:58 am
| HtheB wrote: |
| Even if the author is unknown... there IS an author.. There is no way that someone just dropped accidently ink on a piece paper which became a book.. (lol) |
Think again!!!
[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]
^_^
#100693 - HtheB - Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:33 pm
| keldon wrote: |
| HtheB wrote: | | Even if the author is unknown... there IS an author.. There is no way that someone just dropped accidently ink on a piece paper which became a book.. (lol) |
Think again!!!
[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]
^_^ |
that is no book.. think twice ;)
![[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]](http://www.erikhenne.com/images/Abstract%20from%20Brussels%20modern%20art%202.jpg){kind=link}