#99255 - headspin - Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:52 am
As far as I'm concerned WnterMute, sgtair and BiRedPimp are destroying the DS IRC community by habouring this black stain as an op in #dsdev. I'm no longer going to beg for his removal, instead I hail the people for support. The ops of #dsdev should take responsibility for the concerns of a large part of the online DS community. They refuse to listen to my repeated requests online to remove StoneCypher, so it's the duty of everyone now to make it known it's not acceptable. Because WntrMute and sgstair are both respected contributers to the scene it makes it difficult to point the finger at them for making this mistake. But they have made a mistake and it's time for the community to step in and change it. I advice that #dsdev be boycotted until stonecypher is removed. Until he is removed people should make protest. Just because they are big contributers it dosn't give them the right to destroy the community at the same time. Without standing up and voicing your opinion you can not help this situation. So let yourself be heard, and help make a change.
EDIT: Please don't turn this into a flamewar thread so WntrMute has an excuse to close it.
EDIT: You should probably only vote if you go on IRC
Last edited by headspin on Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
#99258 - Optihut - Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:25 am
I don't use IRC, so I don't really know who is the bad guy here and who isn't. It shouldn't even matter, though. As it was said in the other thread, why don't we all make an effort to get along?
#99259 - headspin - Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:29 am
This thread is in the spirit of trying to get along. If you were on IRC you would undoubtably run into him. I am not going to character assasinate him but he's not someone who should be an op, he abuses the power and relishes in it.
I recommend DS developers to make a ban Stone Cypher blog entry including all you drunkencoders friends out there.
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#99268 - headspin - Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:00 am
Sorry just wanted to say that if you've had a bad experience with StoneCyph mention it breifly in a post along with your vote minus expletives. Please do not include IRC chat logs. Please refrain from attacking him on a personal level. This is about an injustice not about detroying his character.
BTW We have lost many fine homebrew artists because of him. Including the author of ToD. Many people have left IRC because of him.
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#99270 - headspin - Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:20 am
Another note worth making is that StoneCyph is largly respsonsible for the split in the online community. Should he still be around after doing that?
You can log onto #mellowdsdev on EFNet to show your support.
If people don't stand up to tirants they rein supreme and the price of freedom is eternal vigilence.
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#99276 - JaJa - Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:35 pm
Really?
And so by encouraging the community to split you're making this better?
Oh, and nice hypocrisy there headspin.
| Quote: |
| Please refrain from attacking him on a personal level. |
and then in your next post (which by the way is a triple post, the edit button is there for a reason)
| Quote: |
| Another note worth making is that StoneCyph is largly respsonsible for the split in the online community. |
Care to offer any proof to that effect?
| Quote: |
| BTW We have lost many fine homebrew artists because of him. Including the author of ToD. Many people have left IRC because of him. |
On the other hand StoneCypher has helped quite a few people start homebrew.
And Liranuna, the author of Tales of Dagur, left the scene for personal reasons. We all know the terrible things going on in his country and he will be coming of age for service over the coming months. I daresay many people can put 2 and 2 together to see at least some of his reasons for wanting to do something different.
I don't know whether any of you has dropped into #dsdev on blitzed recently but if you were to click on the rules link, you'll find some very interesting and relevant reading.
This section especially. Allow me to quote a little:
| Quote: |
And you'll be told exactly how you screwed up, possibly with colourful asides. In public.
When this happens, the worst thing you can do is whine about the experience, claim to have been verbally assaulted, demand apologies, scream, hold your breath, threaten lawsuits, complain to people's employers, leave the toilet seat up, etc. Instead, here's what you do:
Get over it. It's normal. In fact, it's healthy and appropriate.
Community standards do not maintain themselves: They're maintained by people actively applying them, visibly, in public. Don't whine that all criticism should have been conveyed via private e-mail: That's not how it works. Nor is it useful to insist you've been personally insulted when someone comments that one of your claims was wrong, or that his views differ. Those are loser attitudes. |
Sound advice, I feel. You're all blaming StoneCyper, for what? Telling you that you are wrong? Making you feel inadequate? Well sorry to remove the layers of bubble wrap your parents applied by hugging you too much, but welcome to the real world. You will make mistakes, you will go wrong. But learn from that and move on.
I admit, StoneCypher can be an ass, as I said in one of the numerous other threads the 'anti-Stone' group have made. But if argue like an adult with him, presenting evidence, talking politely and most of all being correct, he will listen.
Hell, I've had several clashes with StoneCypher, but you know what? I GOT OVER IT (damn, I'm going to put that on a fucking T-shirt and sell it).
People joining the #mellowdsdev are just further weakening the scene.
At one point StoneCypher actually tried to make amends with the #mellowdsdev people, but they wouldn't accept.
I urge people to join #dsdev on blitzed.org, to show solidarity for the scene. Come over, speak with StoneCypher. Get the other side of the story, without relying on the words spoken by the Anti-Stone group.
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#99277 - headspin - Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:23 pm
Jaja your a well known SC supporter so say what you want it dosn't take away what SC does from the rest of us. I never attacked and am not attacking SC on a personal level. There is no hypocrisy there. It's his methods and ways I find irresposible. The scene is split because of StoneCyph. Care to find out yourself, it's common knowledge in #mellow ask around.
Last time I spoke to SC he didn't even have DevKitPro installed, so he cant be too much help. I always see him arguing online, I never see him give good advice.
It's not about being in bubble wrap, it's as clear as day to me. I don't mind op's moderating like they should, but SC has a personal agenda that gets involved. The guy hasn't released a single homebrew app and I don't see why he's even an op. Loud pushy attidude shouldn't get you the job.
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#99279 - Zyr - Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:54 pm
I'm not active enough to have seen what SC has supposedly done, so I can't really comment on that, but if he has the support of BRP, WinterMute, etc, then it's probably for a good reason.
Splitting the community is bad, I'm sure we can agree, so why move to another channel? People going to #mellow (and I mean leaving other places to go there) would only split everything further. How is that helping? Better to be in one place and sort it out, than to boycott one, and move to another. Communities are always going to have problems, splitting, running away from those problems, will only weaken the community as a whole.
#99280 - keldon - Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:58 pm
My take on it is that no moderator can be an arse otherwise petty feuds will arise. I do not think that a mod should shy away and be super polite, but if there is no need to be rude, then don't be - any responsible person knows that if you are rude to another person they are more likely to reply with rudeness.
Now I've never had any problems with anyone on IRC when I have been on, although I have witnessed power abuse. It is bad to the community on any level if it does exist, and if anyone abuses their power then they are not fit to be a mod anywhere.
The mods here are good and just, although sometimes I disagree with some locks/deletions decisions, they are perfectly justified and are based on forsight of bigger problems and making the scene look like a bunch of arguing teens.
#99286 - Two9A - Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:30 pm
JaJa has provided good advice to the thread in the form of "GET OVER IT", and I'm in agreement with that sentiment; casual online relations are not the relations to threaten drunken fights with.
I've had disagreements with people in many walks of IRC, and many have said to me that I know nothing and should give up. And I'm in perfect agreement with that: no one person can hope to know everything, and as such it's pointless to argue over semantics. Sitting back and whining about it, however, is but the opt-out of a child.
Further to your statement that SC doesn't have DKP installed and doesn't release homebrew applications, there's good reason for that: he's a commercial developer, using Nintendo's SDK, and that allows insight into the differences between SDK and libnds, as discussed on IRC just yesterday.
As a final aside, if you wish not to look like an ass yourself, you may want to investigate a spell checker. The use of "tirant" in a context such as this does not endear your argument.
#99290 - headspin - Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:46 pm
I hope your blood pressure survives the overwhelming shock next time you make a typo. It will happen, I hope your prepared for your own citisism and by the the nit pickers reading it.
It's not a matter of "GET OVER IT" for the people who are jaded by him. It's a matter of this guy is obviously over the wall out of his nuts, the logical approach of dealing with it is to tell admin, but in this can he is supported by admin. It's a big joke to them that he gets this response from people. It's not a joke to the majority of us.
As for the SDK, if he's a developer and bound by NDA, as far as I'm concerned it conflicts with is role as an op on the channel. It probably prevents any good advice coming from his mouth because of NDA. But I don't believe much of what he says including that he works for a games company.
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#99292 - Zyr - Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:54 pm
The more I read and the more I talk to people involved, the more this seems like a personal grudge, and you're just trying to get more people involved in the hope that more people will agree with you.
1. If it's a grudge, get over it.
2. If it's not, people aren't stupid. If he's as bad as you are suggesting, SC will do something bad, people will consider this themselves and decide whether or not they want to be around. In which case, you should also get over it.
#99295 - headspin - Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:12 pm
| Zyr wrote: |
| 2. If it's not, people aren't stupid. If he's as bad as you are suggesting, SC will do something bad, people will consider this themselves and decide whether or not they want to be around. In which case, you should also get over it. |
His behavious hasn't changed much over the last three years. It's curbed but not enough to make a difference. This isn't a grudge although Stone and admin will probably say it is. I am with same feelings with too many other people for it to be brushed under the rug like it normally is.
SC/WM/SG/BRP will say that I am a trouble maker, and I admit I have had my moments in the room. The last time I got banned was because I said I was shocked that SC was an op and didn't have DevkitARM installed. But I have been getting banned by him for a long time, and he's always had a personal issue with me because I stand by convictions and he dosn't like opinions that oppose his.
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#99300 - keldon - Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:40 pm
| Two9A wrote: |
| JaJa has provided good advice to the thread in the form of "GET OVER IT" |
Get over it is fine if "getting over it" doesn't involve being banned from the community. I remember you from IRC and I remember getting quick immediate help from people who are there and not here. You should know the benefits of IRC access, so it's not a matter of just getting over it, if it needs to be settled it needs to be settled. It's almost like saying, "you have no access to dev kit arm, get over it", or more accurately, "you have no access to the IRC dev community, get over it". Put yourself in their shoes, and picture getting over it.
I personally have no problems in this area, but if this is what I - and other developers - may have to face then the problem is much larger just a petty feud.
#99305 - StoneCypher - Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:50 pm
"His behavior hasn't changed over the last three years"
Headspin, you haven't even been around that long. Ever notice how all of these threads are being started by people who don't develop from #mellow? It's over. Let it go.
Keldon: Don't get involved; you don't have enough information. I didn't actually ban any of these losers. They just like to pretend it was me to get their scapegoating nonsense some traction.
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#99306 - headspin - Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:01 pm
Check the registration of my name on here. It's around the same time I started on #gbadev. Don't try and play the "I've been around longer" game like you did with Lynx and everyone else if it gives you percieved superiourity. It won't work here, but thanks for dropping by the thread.
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#99307 - JaJa - Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:17 pm
Yes, the IRC community is a very useful resource, as you can quickly ask other people, and as Keldon said some people are active on IRC, but not the forums.
And I am concerned that fragmenting the community is going to cause problems, especially if some people are exclusive to one channel.
This is why I question the decision for the anti-stone group to try and promote another channel, which they've been doing for some time.
I've held my tounge for many months now, not wanting to get involved, but now dragging this to the forums, which have little to do with IRC. That's pretty low. What you've run out of people on IRC who believe you, so now you come here too?
The group that will gain the support will be that that is reactive, not actively promoting fragmenting the community over something which is petty.
Someone from this anti-stone group need to come forward with a list of grieviences they have and why. Then maybe we can get closer to resolving this.
And as for me being a Stone supporter, if you guys are my other choice I'm going to stay where I am.
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#99309 - headspin - Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:23 pm
First of all, I'm confused why people are saying I'm fragmenting the community again. I'm saying boycott it, do not go there in protest, there is the original alternative called #mellowdsdev which is the place I recommend to hang in your protest.
Of course there is a large community here that dosn't use IRC, and this really does not concern that part of it. If someone decides to get help on IRC I hope there will be a day they can log in without having to deal with this particular op.
| JaJa wrote: |
| And as for me being a Stone supporter, if you guys are my other choice I'm going to stay where I am. |
Your sig might have given you away on that front. Were not the "other choice" we _are the dev community_ like you are, we just want stone out of office.
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#99310 - JaJa - Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:33 pm
| Quote: |
| First of all, I'm confused why people are saying I'm fragmenting the community again. I'm saying boycott it, do not go there is protest, there is the original alternative called #mellowdsdev which is the place I recommend to hang in your protest. |
Precisely. You are splitting the community by trying to make people join #mellowdsdev in protest, some of which won't even know what they are protesting for.
| Quote: |
| Of course there is a large community here that dosn't use IRC, and this really does not concern that part of it. If someone decides to get help on IRC I hope there will be a day they can log in without having to deal with this particular op. |
Why what has he done to the community?
To me it sounds like something he's done to you.
Anyway, I'm really getting weary of this. It's pointless and could end up driving people away. Please, just try and talk to StoneCypher. Maybe we could publicly set up a channel for you to try and talk this through.
| Quote: |
| JaJa wrote: | | And as for me being a Stone supporter, if you guys are my other choice I'm going to stay where I am. |
Your sig might have given you away on that front. Were not the "other choice" we _are the dev community_ like you are, we just want stone out of office. |
Yeah, I changed to make a point. From my point of view you are the 'other choice'. Between a community with or without StoneCypher.
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#99311 - headspin - Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:46 pm
| Quote: |
| I argued with StoneCypher and got over it. |
The fact you make a joke about arguing StoneCypher and surving, tells me your more privvy to the problem that you let on. You may have got away with it but other people are being screwed. Just because you survived arguing with him dosn't make you cool. And the problem is there is a following behind StoneCypher that thinks his behaviour is cool. The fact he can confuse, belittle, abuse others in a channel doesn't make him cool or worthy as a leader.
I am not splitting the community, the split is already there. I'm just saying to go to the alternative in protest. It can't split any more than it already is.
| Quote: |
Why what has he done to the community?
To me it sounds like something he's done to you. |
Apart from the countless anicdotal evidence and stories I've heard from others, this thread is also about giving people a chance to say their experience. I've heard plenty of them. And yes of course he's done stuff to me. I've put up with so many time I've lost count. It's time to do something about it instead of wining to WntrMute in PM.
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#99313 - Zyr - Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:54 pm
| headspin wrote: |
| Quote: | Why what has he done to the community?
To me it sounds like something he's done to you. |
Apart from the countless anicdotal evidence and stories I've heard from others, this thread is also about giving people a chance to say their experience. I've heard plenty of them. And yes of course he's done stuff to me. I've put up with so many time I've lost count. It's time to do something about it instead of wining to WntrMute in PM. |
| JaJa wrote: |
| Someone from this anti-stone group need to come forward with a list of grieviences they have and why. Then maybe we can get closer to resolving this. |
Still waiting for some specifics.
I actually went to #mellow and asked (I use a different name on efnet), and they wouldn't(or couldn't) tell me.
Rather than whine about the problem, why not put it in the open, really in the open, not just some vauge thread, and deal with it.
#99316 - headspin - Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:09 pm
| Zyr wrote: |
| headspin wrote: | | Quote: | Why what has he done to the community?
To me it sounds like something he's done to you. |
Apart from the countless anicdotal evidence and stories I've heard from others, this thread is also about giving people a chance to say their experience. I've heard plenty of them. And yes of course he's done stuff to me. I've put up with so many time I've lost count. It's time to do something about it instead of wining to WntrMute in PM. |
| JaJa wrote: | | Someone from this anti-stone group need to come forward with a list of grieviences they have and why. Then maybe we can get closer to resolving this. |
Still waiting for some specifics.
I actually went to #mellow and asked (I use a different name on efnet), and they wouldn't(or couldn't) tell me.
Rather than whine about the problem, why not put it in the open, really in the open, not just some vauge thread, and deal with it. |
It's not our job to tell you what he's done to the community. If you don't know what were talking about then thats fine, it shoudn't concern you. What should concern you is if you think you may ever use IRC to get support or chat with other developers. It may effect you then, but like most people things don't matter until they effect them.
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#99317 - Zyr - Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:16 pm
I know what you're talking about, if only vaugely. I asked people on the other side of this and actually got answers.
I'd rather this issue was settled, by dealing with whatever issues you have, publicly, than have people have to pick sides
But once again, you avoid the question. You will not, or can not, say what it is that SC has done.
#99318 - headspin - Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:25 pm
| Zyr wrote: |
I know what you're talking about, if only vaugely. I asked people on the other side of this and actually got answers.
I'd rather this issue was settled, by dealing with whatever issues you have, publicly, than have people have to pick sides
But once again, you avoid the question. You will not, or can not, say what it is that SC has done. |
You dont understand Zyr, but I appreciate your fresh perspective. Other avenues you expect the right way to go about a problem like this have been exhaused. This is the last alternative to gather the support of the community. The time for debate is over because the ops have made it clear there is no compomise.
What SC has done can only be understood by talking to people about it. It's also a conversation that has been done to death on IRC, so not everyone wants to talk about it.
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#99322 - Zyr - Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:40 pm
Obviously, those people who have had that conversation, if it's been done to death, support you, or don't. Either way, this thread wont change their minds, they've already made them up.
So, either this thread is to gain support from those who haven't heard it, in which case you really need to provide evidence, or it's a waste of time.
It's late, so I will make this request only one more time: Tell people what he did, if you can. Avoiding the question again, will just show people exactly how legitimate your claims are.
Last edited by Zyr on Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
#99323 - JaJa - Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:42 pm
Why are you being so evasive and vauge?
If you feel you have such a strong case to oust StoneCypher then why not present it?
I too have visited #mellowdsdev a long time ago and asked what it was all about. No one could tell me; and for some reason you still won't.
I propose we set up an IRC channel on Efnet, Blitzed or a completly network to try and resolve this matter. We have a panel of people, from both sides of the community as Ops, with the parties involved having voice.
To make it public as possible everyone is allowed to join but will not be voiced. Make the channel moderated and let parties argue it out, with a mixed group of mediators having ops.
This should ensure a fair resolution, as both sides are represented and it will be public.
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#99324 - headspin - Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:50 pm
I'm not being evasive and vauge. This isn't about some guy who reads the thread and knows a bit about IRC and wants to know everything about it's meaning. The time for debate, and god forbid on an IRC channel like you suggest, are horses waiting to be beat. You guys need to understand it's not we don't understand making peace and talking things through, it's that this has not worked on the numerious occations in the past and the assumption is it will not work now either.
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#99325 - Zyr - Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:53 pm
Avoided the question.
I'm only one minor person, but you've lost any support I had to give.
#99326 - DynamicStability - Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:57 pm
BRP is contributing too. My theories about who should have op.
1) Homebrew developers.
2) People that act like adults.
3) People that are respected.
4) People that don't abuse power.
In an impromptu count yesterday, 17 developers, have either been bullied enough at this point, or have some kind of crazy unprovoked hate against an authoritarian op who thinks he's loved by many.
Everyone other op in #dsdev, is fine by pretty much everyone. I've really been looking up to WinterMute to do something with his well deserved position to make all this 'drama' go away. Drama happens because people hate being perm banned, provoked, PM'd (stalked) with lies and 'drama' about friends that isn't true.
OH CAPTAIN MY CAPTAIN, SOS!
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#99328 - headspin - Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:07 pm
| Zyr wrote: |
Avoided the question.
I'm only one minor person, but you've lost any support I had to give. |
You don't understand the issue, and I don't expect you to. I'm asking for people who know what I'm talking about and have experience with what I'm talking about. I don't have to explain what Stone Cyph has done to justify these actions to people who don't understand. I'm not trying to get support of people who've never met Stone Cyph. Perhaps people who would like an IRC room that is run by people who are fair and decent people maybe.
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#99329 - JaJa - Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:12 pm
| DynamicStability wrote: |
BRP is contributing too. My theories about who should have op.
1) Homebrew developers.
2) People that act like adults.
3) People that are respected.
4) People that don't abuse power. |
I don't know whether the first one is relevant for all ops, but some at least.
The others really go with out saying.
| Quote: |
| In an impromptu count yesterday, 17 developers, have either been bullied enough at this point, or have some kind of crazy unprovoked hate against an authoritarian op who thinks he's loved by many. |
That is most unfortunate.
| Quote: |
| Everyone other op in #dsdev, is fine by pretty much everyone. I've really been looking up to WinterMute to do something with his well deserved position to make all this 'drama' go away. Drama happens because people hate being perm banned, provoked, PM'd (stalked) with lies and 'drama' about friends that isn't true. |
Agreed.
| Quote: |
| OH CAPTAIN MY CAPTAIN, SOS! |
. . . _ _ _ . . .
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#99333 - tepples - Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:35 pm
CommunityExile and other Meatball Wiki articles that it links to are useful in learning how to manage situations such as these.
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#99343 - keldon - Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:46 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| CommunityExile and other Meatball Wiki articles that it links to are useful in learning how to manage situations such as these. |
Is that advice to the banned, or to the mods, or both? I think it is something that we should all look at. And it is important to the community, we wouldn't want people scared of the community because they are online when someone is immediately banned.
See I'm a little more left winged, super forgiving so maybe I am no good advice to a mod. But on the other hand, maybe a good influence like me is needed otherwise you (like the article says) get problems.
#99345 - darkfader - Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:07 pm
It seems some ppl needs to read that stuff too.
#99356 - StoneCypher - Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:48 pm
That's hilarious. He's "collecting names" from people that have supposedly left IRC to get away from me.
On IRC.
He's found 17 people who've left IRC on IRC, by advertising in the channel they've supposedly left.
Is there anyone left who takes this seriously?
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#99366 - wintermute - Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:23 am
The one thing I have major difficulty with in all this is that every time this kicks off the same people are involved. Instead of approaching the other ops with their grievances and attempting to resolve the matter in any reasonable way these people make threats, flood the channel and generally behave in a manner which indicates that they accept no responsibility for their own actions.
One of the most common excuses is "I was drunk I don't remember doing that" which might be grounds for some leeway if the incidents weren't a regular occurence and often a huge overreaction to some minor perceived sleight which would have been better left ignored.
I also dislike these threads being posted on these forums where you see things rapidly descending into personal attacks and opposing opinions being dismissed as supporters of the individual being attacked even when the viewpoint being expressed is both reasonable and moderate.
On first sight the poll seen here might be considered an attempt to raise an issue that some people think is relevant but if you talk to some of the parties involved you'll rapidly come to the conclusion that it's the work of a minority of badly behaved individuals using the boards as a personal soap box to avoid addressing their own unreasonable behaviour.
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#99377 - DynamicStability - Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:49 am
basically, the community fails, nepotism ftw.
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#99378 - StoneCypher - Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:00 am
You might want to look nepotism up, before you start looking even stupider. I am not related by blood to anyone in the scene.
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#99379 - wintermute - Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:09 am
And again we see random accusations with no carefully reasoned argument which I find hard to interpet in any other way than "you won't do what I want, you suck!"
You'll forgive me if I find it difficult to take such arguments seriously.
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#99382 - Lynx - Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:56 am
Now this is getting out of control.. I agree that this being the 5th or 6th post with basically the same topic.. which I'm sure will get deleted in the next day or so.. becomes just totally useless. And I am not going to waste much more time on the topic, as my last post to a thread that was deleted took me 10+ minutes to write.. for a moderator to take 3 seconds to delete.
So, how about a NEW question? Why does ANYONE care about the split? If you don't like #dsdev, don't join. If you don't like #mellowdsdev, then don't join.. it's that simple.
So, SC group.. STFU.. Anti-SC group.. Also.. STFU! It's getting sickening. NOTHING is going to change, no matter what anyone says.. We have already seen this stuff to many times.. and nothing has changed.. Nothing will change.. So, let's stop pertending we actually care about the DS Dev scene being split and leave it how it is. I think it is safe to say after all of these posts, nobody with any power over #dsdev cares! Your wasting everyones time posting these.
WinterMute: There no point in providing facts, the thread will be deleted and all will be lost.. All I have EVER wanted to talk about was facts.. seems I'm the only one.
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#99396 - JaJa - Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:17 am
Actually looking at previous threads it is likely to just be locked.
Maybe not even that, as if you lock someone will create another thread.
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#99401 - headspin - Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:58 am
It's easy to place blame on users rather than face facts about StoneCyph. The fact is, and as the poll will indicate, he is not a very liked person on IRC. And he is definately a bad choice to be an op. I know it's difficult to take away op status, and you feel like you will upset him, but his reign of terror extends out to all the bots you guys have control over which gives him control over people which gives him the power he loves to hold over people. He uses it to abuse others and as a way to power trip.
Being drunk, and the behavour of others has nothing to do with this. We have no problem with Mute, Stephen or BRP as ops. When the ops do seem to lack reason it's always related to a decision by StoneCyph. He corrupts the whole admin and you guys need to wake up and smell the coffee. The bottom line is he is destroying the online community and your letting it happen. I don't think you should place StoneCyph above more important contributers to the scene - those that actually contribute. There is no reason to have him as an op, he serves no purpose other than as the room's personal bully. Something that is not necessary in this sort of environment - a level headed person can decide who should be banned without resorting to mind games and the usual subsiquent stream of lies and nonsense that follows when you try to reason with him or appeal the decision.
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#99416 - DynamicStability - Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:10 pm
Nepotism means favoring relatives or personal friends because of their relationship rather than because of their abilities. The word is generally used in a derogatory sense.
God I feel illiterate, oh wait, maybe that's you.
And I collected the names in the channels on other networks that still exist because of what you have done.
Or yeah, we are all making this up.
BTW Stone, who is your audience? You always write like someone is out there laughing at us with you, on your side, while you "choke on sandwiches".
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#99418 - MrD - Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:37 pm
| Quote: |
| It's easy to place blame on users rather than face facts about StoneCyph. |
Please elaborate on "facts about StoneCyph".
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#99421 - headspin - Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:57 pm
| MrD wrote: |
| Quote: | | It's easy to place blame on users rather than face facts about StoneCyph. |
Please elaborate on "facts about StoneCyph". |
That he's not suitable to be an op on #dsdev. That he can't wield power without abusing it for his own personal pleasure. That he hurts the community by splitting it and causing people to leave IRC. Because the price of having StoneCyph as an op is too high. He has been a problem for a long time and most people who have been on IRC enough know about him. Most people bow down to him to avoid conflict. This is why you get people with sigs like "I had a fight with StoneCyph and survived". It's like a big joke to some people that he's a real talent at arguing. When people get banned more often than not it's from arguing with Stone. Stone causes more bans because of personal conflict, not from policing the room or when someone breaks an actual rule.
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#99430 - kusma - Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:49 pm
| headspin wrote: |
| MrD wrote: | | Quote: | | It's easy to place blame on users rather than face facts about StoneCyph. |
Please elaborate on "facts about StoneCyph". |
That he's not suitable to be an op on #dsdev. That he can't wield power without abusing it for his own personal pleasure. That he hurts the community by splitting it and causing people to leave IRC. |
Those are opinions, not facts.
#99432 - headspin - Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:36 pm
| kusma wrote: |
| headspin wrote: | | MrD wrote: | | Quote: | | It's easy to place blame on users rather than face facts about StoneCyph. |
Please elaborate on "facts about StoneCyph". |
That he's not suitable to be an op on #dsdev. That he can't wield power without abusing it for his own personal pleasure. That he hurts the community by splitting it and causing people to leave IRC. |
Those are opinions, not facts. |
When I said to face the facts about Stone, I mean lets not spin this whole thing on it's head and start calling it the fault of the users that this op's behaviour online is inappropriate. The facts are always going to be opinion when it comes to a personality or method someone uses. But there is a public opinion that matters when enough people say the same thing. I don't think StoneCyph is evil, nor do I think he's the boogyman of #dsdev. I just don't think people should have to put up with him when they go online to get support or socialise with other developers. These are facts because this is really happening to people in a real way so it's not my opinion that these things occured. I didn't start this thread to spout off my opinion. People are getting effected in a very real way. I believe the other ops know he dosn't make a good op, but he's been around since the founding of #gbadev. And he's the same style of op since all that time ago, nothing has changed.
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#99462 - StoneCypher - Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:28 pm
The funniest part is that Headspin still hasn't come to terms with that I'm not who set his permanent ban, nor that when he tried to chase me into #winprog that they did the same thing.
Dynastab: look it up. Nepotism has nothing to do with friends. That's called "croneyism." Nepotism is specifically about family. Don't use words you don't understand.
It's also relatively amusing that the only "evidence" you mooks have come up with so far is an anonymous poll that you've just been flooding with generated accounts. Every single time you guys have cried out for support, nobody supports you. You keep intimating all this bad history, people keep asking you what it is, and you keep making excuses.
It's because it isn't there. I honestly wonder how long it'll be before you realize how much of your own time you're wasting.
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#99466 - DynamicStability - Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:03 pm
I can't say I never learned anything from StoneCypher. I can say Wikipedia is wrong about nepotism, and I am indeed "looking even stupider." than before.
Stupider HAH, Stupider, hhah stupider! stupid!! sutpsid faL:JDFASDF JK?AS df;jkhasdf]
Do I get a cookie for nit picking shit in your image?
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#99467 - LiraNuna - Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:13 pm
| Quote: |
| very single time you guys have cried out for support, nobody supports you. |
That's not the only place they ask for help.
Every time someones asks for help in #dsdev, you come running first and shouting "NO NO THATS NOT TRUE!11! DONT DO IT LIKE THAT, LOOK AT THE FACTS" while the person is actually asking is totally correct and even tested.
There are several cases like that, where you just point people to google and then when they despertly not finding anything (cause DS is not that documented yet, I, myself had to do quite a research about most of the features) you just call them 'n00bs', leave the channel and say 'WntrMute!11! YOU TAKE CARE OF TI, I CANT ANYMOER!"
Don't lie, I got logs - and if you want to know, I'm spying in #dsdev - both of them.
Let's see you cleaning the channel buddy.
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#99474 - SimonB - Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:05 am
Ok, I think you should all take the bickering elsewhere. This forum is about gba/ds development and not IRC (yes, I know this is the offtopic section). Only a few of our 7500 members actually visit these irc channels and Id hate for them to (again) "have to" read about people who cant get along. Tbh I couldnt care less if people bitch on IRC but on this forum lets all try to stay civil and courteous to eachother.
Oh yes, I seem to remember leaving some friendly advice at the end of this post: http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?p=98479&highlight=#98479
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