#102928 - zzo38computer - Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:47 am
This is a message I send and received from someone on another site. They said it is illegal but I don't believe them. I think Nintendo just wants everyone to believe that it is illegal. You tell me your opinion on this. Seriously.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: |
Dear zzo38,
Thanks for caring, but it doesn't matter to me if a few forum goers don't believe I work at Nintendo.
Thank you,
Medaforcer
P.S. I suggest going to http://www.nintendo.com/ for all your latest Nintendo news! |
I made some games for NDS can you publish them for me when it is finish? (You can keep all the money from selling it). You can see parts of it at http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/nitro/
DSBASIC though is probably done (or close enough to publish, maybe). The source code is available, and has to be modified to work in SLOT-1 cards.
|
Dear zzo38,
I regret to inform you that making games for unlicensed hardware is illegal. We will not take any legal action, but I warn you it is a possibility. I must ask you to cease and desist.
Thank you,
Medaforcer |
I think you convinced me that you work for Nintendo. Thanks. |
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#102930 - tepples - Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:57 am
Search the board for the word accolade for previous topics about the legality of homebrew.
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#102931 - zzo38computer - Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:58 am
| tepples wrote: |
| Search the board for the word accolade for previous topics about the legality of homebrew. |
Thanks for telling me that, now if other people are interested they don't have to ask again, maybe....
Also, see my signature (it is important!)
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#102939 - keldon - Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:14 am
I once emailed Nintendo on their site (before the Nintendo VIP layout when it had that unpolished N64 theme), and they got back basically saying that homebrew was fine.
#102943 - Lynx - Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:11 am
Wow.. I can't even try to understand how they (or anyone) could say (or even believe) it was illegal.. Even the link tepples gave was over something "kinda" different then just plain homebrew.
| Quote: |
| I regret to inform you that making games for unlicensed hardware is illegal. |
This sentence alone doesn't make sense.. unlicensed hardware? I guess that would be true if you had a Nitro Devkit that you obtained in an unlicensed manner? As all the Nintendo DS's on the market would be liscensed hardware, no? Though even that.. the homebrew wouldn't be illegal, just the method of obtaining the unlicensed hardware.. Now.. Assuming he meant "making unlicensed games for hardware is illegal." also wouldn't be true in this generalization. Even when you think about GBA roms requiring the encoded Nintendo logo to run.. let's say that IS illegal, and would not be allowed.. If you are using a passthrough method to boot.. your homebrew wouldn't contain any illegal content and therefore would still be legal. Even if the passthrough was illegal, that wouldn't make your homebrew illegal.
It's like saying, "making a car is illegal".. Well, you can make a car.. and it not be illegal. But, if you made a Ford Escort (for example) it would be.. as Ford owns the TM/patents/etc.. on parts of the car.
On the same note, you can't generalize and say all homebrew is legal.. As we all know.. some of it isn't.. (in reference to using "borrowed" copyrighted material or names).
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#102946 - tepples - Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:19 am
| Lynx wrote: |
| Quote: | | I regret to inform you that making games for unlicensed hardware is illegal. |
This sentence alone doesn't make sense.. unlicensed hardware? I guess that would be true if you had a Nitro Devkit that you obtained in an unlicensed manner? As all the Nintendo DS's on the market would be liscensed hardware, no? |
NoPass cards and CF adapters do not carry an Official Nintendo Seal. Likewise, NES compatible games produced by Tengen, Codemasters, and Color Dreams, and Sega Genesis compatible games produced by Accolade (along with the earliest EA releases for that platform) were "unlicensed".
| Quote: |
| It's like saying, "making a car is illegal".. Well, you can make a car.. and it not be illegal. But, if you made a Ford Escort (for example) it would be.. as Ford owns the TM/patents/etc.. on parts of the car. |
Nintendo's argument might be that making hardware and software that interoperates with Nintendo's console violates Nintendo's patents on the console, as Sega v. Accolade didn't touch on patents.
| Quote: |
| On the same note, you can't generalize and say all homebrew is legal.. As we all know.. some of it isn't.. (in reference to using "borrowed" copyrighted material or names). |
Which is why I dropped the name "Tetanus" for my tetromino game in favor of "Lockjaw", which sounds nothing like "Tetris". (But what does it mean?)
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#102950 - Lynx - Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:41 am
| tepples wrote: |
| NoPass cards and CF adapters do not carry an Official Nintendo Seal. |
Oh.. I got what you are saying, but you are not making software for a NoPas or CF adapter, you are making it for a NDS.. So, it should be more like "I regret to inform you that making games that use unlicensed hardware is illegal."
| Quote: |
Nintendo's argument might be that making hardware and software that interoperates with Nintendo's console violates Nintendo's patents on the console, as Sega v. Accolade didn't touch on patents. |
I don't think either of us would expect to see that hold up in court, and we didn't make the hardware (well, most homebrew devers). Rest assured, I researched a lot before selling PassMes. Everything is open to interpretation.
| Quote: |
Which is why I dropped the name "Tetanus" for my tetromino game in favor of "Lockjaw", which sounds nothing like "Tetris". (But what does it mean?) |
Exactly.. and if you wanted to take it a step further, you could call it "pencil" or "doll hair" as game names have no reason to sound or even have anything to do with what they "may" be a clone of. Personally, I can't figure out why anyone would want to "copy" a commercial game? What's the point? Now, if you like a commercial game, and want to make a game like it, prove your skills and make a game in that genre (sp?). No need to copy characters/storyline/etc.. that just removes from showing off your skills as people think, "wow.. nice copy of XXX" as apposed to "Wow, check out this awesome homebrew game!"
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#102972 - keldon - Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:48 am
Email nintendo's piracy division and see what they think.
#102987 - Edelnutte - Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:38 pm
This is ridicolous... I'mean
-you're not using any Copyrighted Stuff
-you don't want to make money
-You have to search hardly for any illegal action of yours
And Nintendo means like: One more time and Reggie's gonna kick your ass
Whats up with them?
#103003 - poslundc - Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:40 pm
I am sceptical that there is anything legit about the message.
Nintendo operates through lawyers, not forum-cruisers using aliases and without any proof of employment who make thinly-veiled threats composed of broken bits of legal jargon (and not in a legally correct fashion).
Dan.
#103006 - Fatnickc - Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:22 pm
I'd be willing to bet some* money that that person does not work for Nintendo.
*Say, all of 50p.
Last edited by Fatnickc on Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:07 am; edited 1 time in total
#103046 - Lynx - Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:26 pm
Or if he does, he's the mail delivery boy or some other "nontechnical" position.
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#103093 - sgeos - Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:17 am
Legal departments often make claims that will not hold up in court. If my lawyer tells you that you can not do something, you might back down even if that claim is false. This is especially true if you don't have the money to go to court.
Legal departments also make claims that don't intend to act on, 'just in case'. 'Just in case' is very important in a country like the USA.
Hence, I'd expect the conversation to go something like this:
Homebrewer: Can I make homebrew programs?
Legal: Do you have a licensed devkit?
Homebrewer: No.
Legal: Sorry, you are not allowed to make homebrew programs.
-Brendan
#103096 - tepples - Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:44 am
I have a licensed DS devkit. It just happens to be licensed by CompactFlash Association, not Nintendo.
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-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#103115 - keldon - Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:04 am
If datel are making the Max Media launcher, I doubt Nintendo has any problem with it.
#103137 - tepples - Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:56 pm
That, or Nintendo knows it can't use the court system to stop game enhancement devices. Nintendo sued Galoob over the Game Genie, the major competitor at the time to Datel's Action Replay product, and lost both in Canada and in the States.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#103166 - Lynx - Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:22 pm
What I've found, is a lot of lawyers are just stupid. I have a friend that is a lawyer and you should hear the stuff he tells me about dealing with other lawyers and the stuff they say.
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#103172 - Edelnutte - Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:16 pm
| Lynx wrote: |
| What I've found, is a lot of lawyers are just stupid. I have a friend that is a lawyer and you should hear the stuff he tells me about dealing with other lawyers and the stuff they say. |
Could you precise a little because I plan to study lawsuit (stuff) :D
#103175 - keldon - Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:22 pm
| Edelnutte wrote: |
| Lynx wrote: | | What I've found, is a lot of lawyers are just stupid. I have a friend that is a lawyer and you should hear the stuff he tells me about dealing with other lawyers and the stuff they say. |
Could you precise a little because I plan to study lawsuit (stuff) :D |
Well just consider that for every case there are two opposing lawyers. Either one of them is basing their argument on a technicality because thier case is 'stupid', or they both are!!!
#103206 - Lynx - Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:15 pm
| Quote: |
Well just consider that for every case there are two opposing lawyers. |
Heh, you mean at least two.. The last one "we" did it was him and an associate against seven on the other side. 5 of them were with a local big time firm, and the other 2 were from Washington DC.. The money they spent on lawyers, they could have just followed the law.. but I guess it's more fun this way.. The whole system is screwed.. But I don't mind.. it's free money for us. We just push it as far as we can, and then settle.. though I think the next one might actually end up in court, cause he want's his name in the paper when we win.. :)
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#103209 - keldon - Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:23 pm
Hmmm, a funny thought has just crossed my mind. Supposing you threaten to take to someone to court for any given reason, and after disobeying your command you don't take them to court. Can they then take you to court for breaking a verbal contract? ^_^
#103216 - Lynx - Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:55 am
Doubt it.. You don't even need to talk to them.. it only "really" matters when you file the suit. That's when it becomes "real". But, of course if it ends up in court, the judge prefers to see that you communicated with them prior to filing your suit. Normally, you would say "I'm going to sue you because of this" and they say "go ahead, but you will lose because of this." and then you say.. "yeah.. your right, see ya." or.. "I don't think so, I'm filing on Friday." and then they say either "Ok.. can't wait to see it." Or, "What if we give you some money to go away?". :)
It's funny. Companies know they are breaking the law, but don't care. As it is cheaper to pay people to go away then to follow the law. Or, they make a lot more money by not following the law, even if/when they have to play people to go away because they are breaking the law. Problem is, the ONLY people that get paid are the lawyers. Your lawyer want's 50%+ of a settlement, and their lawyers get paid $200+ per hour for every thing they can bill for. They will schedule meetings to talk about future meetings just to bill their client.. the whole thing is one big racket.. Pretty much like the Mob.. but without as much killing. ;)
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#103234 - sgeos - Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:56 am
| Lynx wrote: |
| What I've found, is a lot of lawyers are just stupid. I have a friend that is a lawyer and you should hear the stuff he tells me about dealing with other lawyers and the stuff they say. |
There are plenty of lawyers who struggle to get through law school.
Lawyer extends human. A lot of people are stupid. Lawyers are no exception. Nor are doctors for that matter, which I find absolutely scary.
| Lynx wrote: |
| Your lawyer want's 50%+ of a settlement, and their lawyers get paid $200+ per hour for every thing they can bill for. |
Now I know why my older half brother wants in. =)
| Lynx wrote: |
| They will schedule meetings to talk about future meetings just to bill their client.. the whole thing is one big racket.. Pretty much like the Mob.. but without as much killing. ;) |
Does this mean that lawyers are "evil"? =)
-Brendan
#103307 - tepples - Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:48 pm
| sgeos wrote: |
| Lynx wrote: | | They will schedule meetings to talk about future meetings just to bill their client.. the whole thing is one big racket.. Pretty much like the Mob.. but without as much killing. ;) |
Does this mean that lawyers are "evil"? =) |
Behind every sleazy lawyer is an even sleazier client.
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-- Where is he?
-- Who?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#103331 - Lynx - Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:52 pm
First, they don't have all the lawyer jokes for no reason..
Second, tepples, that is not always true. There are "Professional Client's". And sometimes a client can't afford a "nonsleazy" laywer, as they just charge way to much.. So, you end up with a sleazy lawyer because he'll work for less money but take all your settlement. Or, if he is defending you, only charge you half what a "real" laywer would charge. Either way, you normally end up with the same sentence.. As I don't think either really care about their client.
But, as with cops and other "thankless" jobs, everyone hates them till they need them.
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#103453 - thegamefreak0134 - Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:56 am
(sorry for coming into this so late)
I can see nintento having issues with a flash-cart or a third party cartridge. I mean, that would prevent them from getting money from the hardware they put time and effort into developing, wouldn't it? That would let third party companies not have to have their hardware licenced by nintendo (which I'm sure costs something) and make pure profit from a game. Not good.
However, although that claim covers developing for the unlisenced hardware, it does not cover developing on it. Thus, as long as you have a real nintendo cart in mind for the final product, you should be fine. Assuming this guy knows what he's talking about, of course.
So, here's your solution. Ask your "nintendo" buddy how you can aquire some licenced hardware for you media to go on. I know perfectly good and well that nintendo sells the hardware to developers, I've been to the site. You have to work for nintendo though, and that poses a problem.
I would highly recommend ignoring this guy, as he sounds a little fishy to me. If you really want to, look for a publisher. However, I'm told that the odds of actually publishing a homebrew game are slim to none, so good luck in that department.
-gamefreak
PS: If I'm wrong about something, which is probable, don't hesitate to let me know.
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#103459 - Lynx - Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:38 am
| Quote: |
| overs developing for the unlisenced hardware, it does not cover developing on it. Thus, as long as you have a real nintendo cart in mind for the final product, you should be fine. |
That's kinda what I was talking about.. except, you are developing for the Nintendo DS! Therefor, you are developing _FOR_ liscensed hardware. Even if you didn't to use a real Nintendo card, you don't develope your homebrew for the media, it is just a storage device. Sure, you might develope your homebrew to use the GBA MP, and without the GBA MP it wouldn't work, but none of it would work without a DS.
Also, what about if you are developing "for" an emulator, and don't plan to use any hardware at all? Just because end users put your homebrew onto whatever media they obtain, would this still be covered under the "BS" sentence we are discussing?
Edit: Spelling :(
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#103461 - sgeos - Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:41 am
| thegamefreak0134 wrote: |
| I can see nintento having issues with a flash-cart or a third party cartridge. I mean, that would prevent them from getting money from the hardware they put time and effort into developing, wouldn't it? |
Doesn't Intelligent Systems produce most if not all of the offical dev hardware? Not that this necessarily undermines your point. (IS is second party.)
Dev hardware can be used for piracy, so the parties involved want tight control over who can get ahold of it. This means that they don't want unofficial dev hardware in circulation- at all. It can't be controlled. How many times have you used your flash cart for something that could be considered piracy? Never, right? How easily could you use if for something that could be considered piracy? Very.
As far as actual development goes, most console manufacturers make money by selling licenses. I don't think that Nintendo is an exception. This means that if you don't buy a license, you've cheated them out of a sale- and a fairly big one at that!
| thegamefreak0134 wrote: |
| I know perfectly good and well that nintendo sells the hardware to developers, I've been to the site. You have to work for nintendo though, and that poses a problem. |
I think you mean "You have be a licensed developer, and that poses a problem."
-Brendan
#103464 - tepples - Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:44 am
| Lynx wrote: |
| Also, what about if you are developing "for" an emulator, and don't plan to use any hardware at all? |
Then you are wasting your time in the estimation of some people who witnessed the early NES homebrew scene, where stuff developed on the Nesticle emulator had no chance of working on an NES. If you are developing for a PC audience, then why aren't you developing directly for AllegroGL?
| sgeos wrote: |
| As far as actual development goes, most console manufacturers make money by selling licenses. I don't think that Nintendo is an exception. This means that if you don't buy a license, you've cheated them out of a sale- and a fairly big one at that! |
Unless Nintendo didn't want to sell you equipment in the first place, which is the case if you develop out of a home office.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#103467 - sgeos - Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:56 am
| tepples wrote: |
| sgeos wrote: | | As far as actual development goes, most console manufacturers make money by selling licenses. I don't think that Nintendo is an exception. This means that if you don't buy a license, you've cheated them out of a sale- and a fairly big one at that! |
Unless Nintendo didn't want to sell you equipment in the first place, which is the case if you develop out of a home office. |
The problem with working out a home office is one of security. If you invite friends home, what prevents them from wandering into your office? What about the day you forget to or don't bother to lock the door? In an external office, these kinds of problems presumably just do not happen.
If you solve your home office technicality and meet all of their other requirements, they will sell you a license. Note that "all of their other requirements" may be too steep depending on who you are. Once you have a license, you can buy equipment.
They've either lost a sale, or you are not meet their definition of viable developer.
-Brendan
#103468 - tepples - Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:14 am
That, or Nintendo owns stock in companies that lease office real estate.
And for those startups that lack enough capital to get noticed at first, which North American handheld platform do you recommend targeting in order to build capital for a second title on the DS?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#103472 - sgeos - Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:41 am
| tepples wrote: |
| That, or Nintendo owns stock in companies that lease office real estate. |
Nintendo is huge and has their money invested in all sorts of things.
Aside-
If you visit Nintendo HQ in Kyoto you can get a book that lists Nintendo history, shares, etc. You can not enter the building. Talk to security, and they'll give you your book. IIRC, it lists the kinds of things Nintendo has money tied up in. I have a copy but don't know where it is- I recently moved.
At any rate, even if they have money invested in real estate companies, I highly doubt that leasing from those companies is a required of developers. =)
| tepples wrote: |
| And for those startups that lack enough capital to get noticed at first, which North American handheld platform do you recommend targeting in order to build capital for a second title on the DS? |
Why does it have to be a North American handheld platform? This is like saying:
I'm going camping and I want a new vehicle. Which Ford jeep do I want to buy? You might want a Ford, and you might want a jeep, but then again, you might not. You might want a minivan.
Given that you are based in USA, targeting a US platform makes sense, but restricting yourself to one is silly. Australia, New Zealand and UK don't have any significant language barriers that I am aware of.
Restricting yourself to a handheld system is also silly. You might want to develope for a handheld and you might not. Why this restriction?
I recommend developing for the PC. You don't need a license. If you lack funds, your initial bottleneck will probably be printing CDs. If you can find a retailer or even a distributor to carry your product, that problem may disappear.
Aside-
I'm actually in the process of taking this route. Note XML -> PDF thread.
Second title for the DS? Really? Seems a little fast to me.
-Brendan
#103474 - tepples - Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:57 am
| sgeos wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | And for those startups that lack enough capital to get noticed at first, which North American handheld platform do you recommend targeting in order to build capital for a second title on the DS? |
Why does it have to be a North American handheld platform? |
Because I live in the United States, and other markets have unfamiliar laws.
| Quote: |
| Given that you are based in USA, targeting a US platform makes sense, but restricting yourself to one is silly. Australia, New Zealand and UK don't have any significant language barriers that I am aware of. |
But there are other barriers. How do I know what content will be considered acceptable to British, Australian, and NZ censors?
| Quote: |
| Restricting yourself to a handheld system is also silly. You might want to develope for a handheld and you might not. Why this restriction? |
Players have much lower expectations for graphics, etc. on paid software for a mobile system than on paid software for a sessile system. If a Windows game has GBA style or DS 2D style graphics, they will expect it to be freeware. On a phone, they're more willing to accept 2D. However, due in part to the greed of network operators who want to lock customers into their own online stores, the North American phone game market is nearly as tough to crack as the console game market.
| Quote: |
| I recommend developing for the PC. |
Not everybody can achieve graphics of the level of Half-Life 2 or even Quake III: Arena.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#103491 - sgeos - Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:15 am
| tepples wrote: |
Because I live in the United States, and other markets have unfamiliar laws.
...
But there are other barriers. How do I know what content will be considered acceptable to British, Australian, and NZ censors? |
You could work with someone in another country or research that country's laws. As I said, distributing to you mother country makes sense for a whole slew of reasons, but restricting yourself to your home market is silly.
| Quote: |
| Players have much lower expectations for graphics, etc. on paid software for a mobile system than on paid software for a sessile system. |
I think you just answered your own question. You want to make games for cell phones. It is no wonder that there are a whole slew of companies making cell phone games in Japan.
| Quote: |
| If a Windows game has GBA style or DS 2D style graphics, they will expect it to be freeware. On a phone, they're more willing to accept 2D. |
I'm going to disagree with you on this one (see below), but I'm about to put my money where my mouth is, so we'll see how things work out. =)
| Quote: |
| However, due in part to the greed of network operators who want to lock customers into their own online stores, the North American phone game market is nearly as tough to crack as the console game market. |
This is why I recommend the PC market. You've developed PC games before. Are they marketable? I don't know, but nobody is stopping you from finding out- granted you have enough in the bank to cover production costs. Google "cd replication" to solve production questions. Sales is, of course, a whole different story. =)
If the North American market is hard to crack, what about another market? Per above, the Japanese market has a huge number of companies making cell phone games. I doubt it is hard to get into, but due to competition I'll bet it is hard to do well in the Japanese cell phone game market. I don't know much about other country's cell phone game markets.
What would it take to distribute cell phone games in the US market?
| Quote: |
| Not everybody can achieve graphics of the level of Half-Life 2 or even Quake III: Arena. |
What is your target audience? If you want Half-Life 2 level/style graphics, you need either time or money. Time and money are the same thing if you can do the job yourself. Look at the credits to get an idea of how many people-hours went into art. (Many. =)
I suggest that you try to sell content instead of glitz. If you want to make Hollywood-style-through-the-roof-budget-games, you really want to get hired by somebody who makes Hollywood-style-through-the-roof-budget-games (*). If you are not interested, try making and consequently selling something else. Double check that you know what you are making and who you are selling to.
-Brendan
(*) Or marry someone wealthy. Note: "really want to". =)
#103501 - chishm - Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:26 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| Quote: | | I recommend developing for the PC. |
Not everybody can achieve graphics of the level of Half-Life 2 or even Quake III: Arena. |
I've noticed quite a few of my family members only play simplistic Real Arcade type games (Diamond Mine, Zuma, etc.). There is still a large audience that wants simplistic 2D games.
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#103505 - Joe_Sextus - Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:27 pm
| tepples wrote: |
Players have much lower expectations for graphics, etc. on paid software for a mobile system than on paid software for a sessile system. If a Windows game has GBA style or DS 2D style graphics, they will expect it to be freeware. On a phone, they're more willing to accept 2D. However, due in part to the greed of network operators who want to lock customers into their own online stores, the North American phone game market is nearly as tough to crack as the console game market.
|
You could always develop for the Pocket PC. They use pretty much the same APIs as Windows (unless you use .NET, the CF is severally crippled). Distribution can be handled by places like http://www.handango.com or http://www.pocketgear.com
-Joe
#103528 - thegamefreak0134 - Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:08 pm
The problem with programming on the PC (for me anyway) is that I don\'t have easy access to a touch screen, and can hardly expect my audience to have that access. It would make the game a bit procy to ship one with it, doncha think?
The whole point of programming on the DS is mainly to play with integrating the touch screen into the gameplay. If you\'ll notice, the actual games vary from very simple 2D (mario minigames) to rather advanced 3D for the platform. (Metroid.) I still find that each and every one of these games is enjoyable, regardless of quality, because the touch screen makes them fun to play.
Personally, I don\'t think nintendo will actually bother stopping homebrew at any point. In fact, I don\'t think they realize how much money they could make by selling homebrew hardware themselves. (something like a re-writeable cart with a fixed header, so it couldn\'t be used for piracy. And yes, I know this could be bypassed easilly, but you get the idea.)
Am I making sense here?
-thegamefreak
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#103533 - keldon - Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:57 pm
| chishm wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | Quote: | | I recommend developing for the PC. |
Not everybody can achieve graphics of the level of Half-Life 2 or even Quake III: Arena. |
I've noticed quite a few of my family members only play simplistic Real Arcade type games (Diamond Mine, Zuma, etc.). There is still a large audience that wants simplistic 2D games. |
Just look at the flash gaming scene. Sure there are 3d games, but a majority of the games they are playing are simple 2d games.
#103560 - tepples - Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:44 pm
| chishm wrote: |
| I've noticed quite a few of my family members only play simplistic Real Arcade type games (Diamond Mine, Zuma, etc.). There is still a large audience that wants simplistic 2D games. |
and
| keldon wrote: |
| Just look at the flash gaming scene. |
Do players pay money for any of those games, or do they skip over anything that isn't freeware? And is a Java applet acceptable in lieu of SWF?
| Joe_Sextus wrote: |
| You could always develop for the Pocket PC. They use pretty much the same APIs as Windows (unless you use .NET, the CF is severally crippled). |
"The CompactFlash is severally crippled"? I can't make head nor tail of this. And aren't most Pocket PC devices nowadays phones, not pure PDAs, and subject to the network operator's lockout chip in my country?
| thegamefreak0134 wrote: |
| The whole point of programming on the DS is mainly to play with integrating the touch screen into the gameplay. |
That's why you develop for Pocket PC, Tablet PC, or a desktop PC with a graphics tablet, and just deal with the fact there exists no PDA or phone with a decent Control Pad.
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-- Who?
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#103566 - Joe_Sextus - Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:19 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| Joe_Sextus wrote: | | You could always develop for the Pocket PC. They use pretty much the same APIs as Windows (unless you use .NET, the CF is severally crippled). |
"The CompactFlash is severally crippled"? I can't make head nor tail of this. And aren't most Pocket PC devices nowadays phones, not pure PDAs, and subject to the network operator's lockout chip in my country?
|
When i said CF I meant the .NET Compact Framework. As for Pocket PC being phones, that is a separate category called Smartphones. Smart phones running Windows Mobile, can still sync to a computer with MS ActiveSync and this allows you to install programs and games on them. I have done some development for Windows Mobile, in both EVC++, and .NET 2005 (using the CF) and in my experience a program written for Windows Mobile 2002 (also called Pocket PC 2002) will work for most later versions of Windows Mobile including Smartphones. Keep in mind that most of these devices can't upgrade the OS, so a Pocket PC 2002 device won't be able to run Windows Mobile 5.
For more infomation on development check out http://www.pocketpcdn.com. This is one of the best, if not the best, site for Pocket PC development.
#103573 - tepples - Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:31 pm
| Joe_Sextus wrote: |
| When i said CF I meant the .NET Compact Framework. As for Pocket PC being phones, that is a separate category called Smartphones. Smart phones running Windows Mobile, can still sync to a computer with MS ActiveSync and this allows you to install programs and games on them. |
Unless your network operator has turned the phone's application security policy up to maximum ("Restricted"), requiring all apps to be signed using a certificate that a hobbyist looking to become no longer only a hobbyist can't necessarily afford.
But are Pocket PC devices (not smartphones) becoming a niche in the same way that GP2X is a niche?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#103582 - Joe_Sextus - Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:59 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| Unless your network operator has turned the phone's application security policy up to maximum ("Restricted"), requiring all apps to be signed using a certificate that a hobbyist looking to become no longer only a hobbyist can't necessarily afford. |
The older devices, as far as I know, don't have this ability. Alot of the "security" features and technology Microsoft brags about (like VPN, Wi-Fi, and Mobile 2 Market) don't apply to the older devices.
| tepples wrote: |
| But are Pocket PC devices (not smartphones) becoming a niche in the same way that GP2X is a niche? |
I can't really say much about that. I live in Oklahoma, most people hear have never heard of Pocket PCs or Smartphones.
I think the biggest problem with this market is cost. A new PocketPC can run anywhere from $299 to $699, but a used HP Jornada 568 on ebay runs from $10 - $100, depending on what's included with it. (This is what I have).
#103611 - Lynx - Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:41 am
| tepples wrote: |
| chishm wrote: | | I've noticed quite a few of my family members only play simplistic Real Arcade type games (Diamond Mine, Zuma, etc.). There is still a large audience that wants simplistic 2D games. |
and
| keldon wrote: | | Just look at the flash gaming scene. |
Do players pay money for any of those games, or do they skip over anything that isn't freeware? And is a Java applet acceptable in lieu of SWF? |
That is exactly what I was thinking.. You have a major simplistic 2D market with your corporate environment that "doesn't see" all the employees playing these simplistic games, and can start/stop playing at any time.. Ya'know.. like lunch breaks (yeah.. right) But, as tepples said.. does anyone ever pay to play these games?
But, even the cell phone market, is there really any money for the developer? The games are $6 to download.. I'm sure the Cell Phone company gets some of that... then the publisher.. etc.. what's left for the developer? $1? And how much of these $6 games really sell? I've never bought one.. my brother bought a couple, but not because he wanted to, but because he let his son play with his phone..
Even PDA games.. I have a bunch on my Palm, but all were free. Maybe the rest of the USA isn't as "cheap" as me.. But I can't see wasting $6 - $30 for a novelty game. The PC games I have purchased were due to an adiction factor.. I played the free demo, got sucked into online gaming and couldn't help but plunk down the money to purchase the whole game..
Now, I may be off base here, but I think the real money would be in monthly charges.. I never got into the MMORGs but I had a friend that had 3 accounts and his friends all had 3+ accounts.. that's a lot of money/month to play a game.
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#103630 - keldon - Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:16 am
They might not pay to play, but kids have a choice of their ps2 or these internet games.
With a little innovation you can make money. Look at habbo hotel and runescape.