#108550 - zzo38computer - Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:35 am
I already purchased some of the parts and will make this system. Some features are:
- All of the software and hardware design is available for anyone to make it, it is open-source
- Some companies can make system that can have multiple function, one of them which is compatible with this system (for example a Windows Media PC + Linux Media PC combination)
- Use DB9 port to connect up to 4 game controllers
- Run linux
- Keyboard can be used but is optional
- Auto-login, each unit a seperate root password (printed on the back), but you can login manually if you wish
- CD-ROM/DVD-ROM drive
- Can emulate homebrew NES,GB,GBC,GBA software
- You can use a wireless USB internet if you want
Any ideas?
_________________
Important: Please send messages about FWNITRO to the public forum, not privately to me.
#108553 - keldon - Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:13 am
Tell me if I'm wrong, but didn't you bring this up before? Or am I mixing you up with someone else?
#108560 - tepples - Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:14 am
Why DB9? Is it for compatibility with Atari 2600, C=64, and Sega controllers? Nowadays, most game controllers that aren't proprietary are USB. Would it be hard to put four USB ports on the front of the machine?
How would games work? How would game disc autorun distinguish a game from a user account bricker or a user account rootkit?
How are you going to sign up major publishers?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#108563 - keldon - Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:24 am
Are you going to be doing this via a custom linux distribution?
#108652 - josath - Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:09 pm
So it's basically a desktop PC with some custom software? Or is it custom hardware as well? Everything you described seems like a standard PC to me.
#108661 - zzo38computer - Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:20 am
I am now answering many questions:
| Quote: |
| Why DB9? Is it for compatibility with Atari 2600, C=64, and Sega controllers? Nowadays, most game controllers that aren't proprietary are USB. Would it be hard to put four USB ports on the front of the machine? |
DB9 is easiest. It will be a serial port line, where each port includes the send data, receive data, and 2 hard-wired pins indicating the controller number. The controller will send only on its turn. USB is harder, because of the way USB works. The controller design will be open-source as well, so any company can make these controllers. Serial data is easiest to build on the embedded chip.
| Quote: |
| How would games work? How would game disc autorun distinguish a game from a user account bricker or a user account rootkit? |
The game would run in its own account. The root password is different for every system, so the software cannot mess up your computer.
| Quote: |
| Are you going to be doing this via a custom linux distribution? |
Probably. The window manager will be a custom window manager called XNTSCWM. I don't know a lot about how to make a window manager though, but if you tell me where to find some sample code I probably can do it.
| Quote: |
| So it's basically a desktop PC with some custom software? Or is it custom hardware as well? Everything you described seems like a standard PC to me. |
The software and hardware are both custom. Even the BIOS might be custom. Some people or companies may make systems (maybe Media PCs? DVD players? Game console systems? Something else that nobody has even thought of yet?) which can boot in multiple modes, one of which is compatible with this system (or maybe not).
| Quote: |
| How are you going to sign up major publishers? |
I don't know. All the design specification is open-source, no licensing fees are required. Any individual or company can make hardware clones or software. Commercial licensing may be available in some ways anyways though. I am working with a few other people on this project.
_________________
Important: Please send messages about FWNITRO to the public forum, not privately to me.
#108675 - sgeos - Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:41 am
| zzo38computer wrote: |
| Quote: | | How are you going to sign up major publishers? |
I don't know. All the design specification is open-source, no licensing fees are required. |
My question is, why would anyone bother to make anything for this system when they can just make something for vanilla linux?
| zzo38computer wrote: |
| Any individual or company can make hardware clones or software. |
Why should they bother? How much does it look like it will cost to produce a unit? What sort of minimum lots or production equipment are we looking? How much will units "retail" for? Will units retail at all? If so, will you get them into retail, or do you expect the manufacturers to get them into retail?
How far along is the system spec? When do expect to complete it? When do you expect to "launch"? Will you be developing software for this system yourself? If so, how many titles do you have planned? How far along are they?
-Brendan
#108676 - tepples - Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:45 am
| sgeos wrote: |
| My question is, why would anyone bother to make anything for this system when they can just make something for vanilla linux? |
Vanilla? Never heard of that distribution. ;-) But seriously, a specification for a Linux based game console would be less of a moving target than the common distributions (Fedora, Ubuntu, Linspire, etc).
A lot of your questions could be asked as well about the GP2X.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#108685 - zzo38computer - Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:29 am
| sgeos wrote: |
| zzo38computer wrote: | | Quote: | | How are you going to sign up major publishers? |
I don't know. All the design specification is open-source, no licensing fees are required. |
My question is, why would anyone bother to make anything for this system when they can just make something for vanilla linux?
| zzo38computer wrote: | | Any individual or company can make hardware clones or software. |
Why should they bother? How much does it look like it will cost to produce a unit? What sort of minimum lots or production equipment are we looking? How much will units "retail" for? Will units retail at all? If so, will you get them into retail, or do you expect the manufacturers to get them into retail?
How far along is the system spec? When do expect to complete it? When do you expect to "launch"? Will you be developing software for this system yourself? If so, how many titles do you have planned? How far along are they?
-Brendan |
All of these are unknown. As I said, a few other people I know are supporting this project and helping me. I am not doing it all by myself. The first few units sold will probably be expensive "limited edition" units that must be purchased by phone or fax or something and picked up. The price will go down for the "common edition" units. Even then, I do not expect to sell a lot of units. I may eventually mass produce them for retail and reduce the price further, but possibly other companies can make dual-mode units (such as a Media PC with a secondary mode that is compatible with this system).
This system may even play DVDs (but you will have to download extra software (still free and open source) to play DVDs, this functionality will not be built in. It has to do with licensing).
Some people I am working with has written extremely old software for now defunct companies (probably their own companies) and may be able to modify the software to work with this new system as well.
Since it will not run Windows, the price of Windows will be deducted from the cost of the PC. But then the cost of the custom hardware will be added. Therefore, I do not know the total price.
Oh, and one more thing: It is planned to include a BASIC interpreter.
_________________
Important: Please send messages about FWNITRO to the public forum, not privately to me.
#109970 - zzo38computer - Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:02 pm
Anyone who can help in any way is appreciated. Version 3 GNU will be used if it is available by the time the software is made. Hardware will also be open source.
Some very important features:
- Non-DRM (indicated very clearly, so that everyone knows that DRM is bad and that this system doesn't use DRM)
- VGA output (in case HDTV comes out and prevent analog TV output from working)
- Auto mount/unmount, auto login
- Complete homebrew compatibility
DB9 is easier and less expensive to use because an expensive micro-controller in the game control is not required, a less expensive one will work with normal serial data stream.
Also I read somewhere that there are drivers for Linux to allow you to use Wii sensor bar and remote control with any Linux computer, so in that case, they will work with this system as well if anyone wants to (but isn't required).
(I also think everyone must work together on a new TV standard based on VGA)
_________________
Important: Please send messages about FWNITRO to the public forum, not privately to me.
#109977 - tepples - Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:18 pm
| zzo38computer wrote: |
| (I also think everyone must work together on a new TV standard based on VGA) |
That's called "component video".
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#110060 - zzo38computer - Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:53 am
| tepples wrote: |
That's called "component video". |
Does component video work on DRM television sets?
_________________
Important: Please send messages about FWNITRO to the public forum, not privately to me.
#110066 - tepples - Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:08 am
| zzo38computer wrote: |
| Does component video work on DRM television sets? |
Yes. Virtually every TV that has DVI+HDCP or HDMI+HDCP also has component inputs.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#110082 - OOPMan - Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:44 am
Hmmmm, just a thought on the DB9 vs. USB thing...
Although USB is harder it might be a better choice, as getting
USB controllers is very easy nowadays, whereas I'd imagine
those using DB9 connectors are a little more difficult to find...
Just a thought though...
_________________
"My boot, your face..." - Attributed to OOPMan, Emperor of Eroticon VI
You can find my NDS homebrew projects here...
Last edited by OOPMan on Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
#110087 - tepples - Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:17 am
The so-called DB-9 (actually DE-9) standard was used by Atari 2600 and 7800 (see pinout), Commodore 64, Amiga, Sega Master System, and Sega Genesis (see pinout and extension to 6 buttons) systems. I'll guess that it's more popular than USB in areas that still rely on 8-bit game technology, where famiclones are still popular, areas outside North America and Western Europe.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#110088 - sgeos - Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:19 am
Console to USB adapters can be found at my local electronics shop.
-Brendan
#110115 - zzo38computer - Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:41 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| The so-called DB-9 (actually DE-9) standard was used by Atari 2600 and 7800 (see pinout), Commodore 64, Amiga, Sega Master System, and Sega Genesis (see pinout and extension to 6 buttons) systems. I'll guess that it's more popular than USB in areas that still rely on 8-bit game technology, where famiclones are still popular, areas outside North America and Western Europe. |
OK, I wasn't going to give you the pinout until the project is nearly finish. Here is the current plan:
- Data TX
- Data RX
- Data GND
- Power
- ID 0
- ID 1
- Power Ground 1
- Special
- Power Ground 2
ID0 and ID1 are connected internally so they have constant values of 0 or 1, depending on which slot the controller is connected to. All serial data is on the same line. Special is a parallel port data line.
_________________
Important: Please send messages about FWNITRO to the public forum, not privately to me.
#110116 - zzo38computer - Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:42 pm
| sgeos wrote: |
Console to USB adapters can be found at my local electronics shop.
-Brendan |
Now you can play real NES cartridges on the Power X Y system!
_________________
Important: Please send messages about FWNITRO to the public forum, not privately to me.
#111579 - zzo38computer - Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:36 pm
More information about it:
- Do not think that I am not working on it! I am working on it still! Also do not think that I will forget about using DB9(DE-9)! DB9(DE-9) is simpler to use. USB is very complicated.
- It will have some games included on the CD. It will include a few old games that some people I know have created and put in 5.25" floppy disks and may copy them to CDs for this system. Also some games I have invented in QBASIC and wish to copy (for example, Dr. Wilde). And some public domain NES ROMs as well (such as: Munchie Attack).
- It might include a custom (open-source) BIOS with only the minimum stuff required to run this system, so no PC speaker, floppy disk, print-screen, mouse, etc (LinuxBIOS is a bit too complicated). If it does have a custom BIOS, it may also be able to boot from the serial port and bootstrap it manually. If you know anything about create BIOS, you can tell me.
- GNU version 3 License may be used if it is available in time.
- You can use USB file-system devices to test software on this system before making the final copy on CD or DVD.
- It will include no Internet connection, but you can use USB wireless-internet device to allow it to work.
- The serial port will be fast enough to use at least 4 game-controllers.
- If a Linux driver for this exists (as I have heard), Nintendo Wii remote control and sensor bars can be used with USB (although this is completely optional).
- The slogan: "You have now regained the controls."
- Some people I have talked to don't think the hardware design should be open-source, bit I will make the hardware design open-source anyways (even if every single component isn't listed, you can easily make a compatible hardware design from the specifications).
- It also include support for a single IR remote-control (optional) using a button matrix. The remote control has numbers and other stuff, including play/pause, rewind, fast-forward, record, skip-previous, skip-next, and the button of game-controller as well (except joy-stick).
- The front panel will have a 4-digit display with a colon, 4 LEDs, 4 buttons, and 4 DB9(DE-9) port for game-controllers. There is also a auxiliary port on the back.
- The window-manager, XNTSCWM, will be based on the ratpoison window-manager.
- Most of the parts will be ordered from Digi-Key or Electrosonic.
_________________
Important: Please send messages about FWNITRO to the public forum, not privately to me.
#111644 - josath - Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:02 pm
| zzo38computer wrote: |
More information about it:
[*]If a Linux driver for this exists (as I have heard), Nintendo Wii remote control and sensor bars can be used with USB (although this is completely optional).
|
Linux 'driver' for the wiimote
The only hardware needed is a linux-supported bluetooth adaptor (which you can get for $15 or less these days)
The 'sensor bar' is not really a sensor. it is simple a couple of IR Leds which are constantly on. No data is sent to/from the 'sensor' bar.