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OffTopic > Becoming established?

#110034 - tepples - Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:53 pm

In this post, HyperHacker wrote:
If you were an established game developer who's published a few games

Which games do you suggest making first in order to become established, and for which platform?

silent_code wrote:
let's get things straight: even mario on the nes had an engine

Right, but engines weren't reused from title to title in the 8-bit era nearly as much as in the PS2 era.
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Last edited by tepples on Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:09 am; edited 1 time in total

#110045 - M3d10n - Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:49 pm

tepples wrote:
Which games do you suggest making first in order to become established, and for which platform?


Without any strong tie-ins with the game industry, the only way to go are the open platforms (the PC and it's brethen), where you can develop and (theorically) sell games without being tied to someone.

As for which games to make... You need to develop games within your resources ($$$) which you can somehow sell in enough quantities to recover the spent money and get some extra for profit/reinvesting. Being established means earning money and existing as a business, and that is the trickiest part.

For one-man teams, it's far more complicated, and it's either producing browser games for casual games portals, getting hired in games development then climbing up, or ganging up with artists and programmers and start a team.

#110048 - tepples - Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:18 pm

M3d10n wrote:
Without any strong tie-ins with the game industry, the only way to go are the open platforms (the PC and it's brethen), where you can develop and (theorically) sell games without being tied to someone.

Which open platform is set-top or handheld?

Quote:
For one-man teams, it's far more complicated, and it's either producing browser games for casual games portals

Do most portals accept games delivered as Java applets, or do they require each developer to purchase a copy of Adobe Flash?

Quote:
getting hired in games development then climbing up

What does it take to be hired in games development, other than a BSCS degree plus several thousand dollars to relocate oneself thousands of miles to a different state?
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#110061 - josath - Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:58 am

tepples wrote:

Quote:
For one-man teams, it's far more complicated, and it's either producing browser games for casual games portals

Do most portals accept games delivered as Java applets, or do they require each developer to purchase a copy of Adobe Flash?


WARNING: this is getting a bit offtopic, so please skip this post if you aren't interested in flash development.

-----

Nowadays you can produce flash games/apps using 100% open source tools, or at least 100% free-as-in-beer.

For producing flash 6,7,8 files: (all opensource, completely cross-platform)
Mtasc -- AS2 Compiler. Fast command-line compile for your classfiles. Faster and fewer bugs than the official compiler.
swfmill -- Tool for importing swf,jpg,png, etc files into a swf. Works off of XML description files to build a swf

For producing flash 9 files:
haXe -- A new language designed by the mtasc author. Can also produce flash 6,7,8,javascript, and neko (custom format designed to run on your server, replacing things like PHP, java servlets, or ASP.NET). Kinda neat idea that you can write an entire web app in a single syntax (versus using actionscript+javascript+php for example).
Flex 2 SDK - An official compiler for both mxml and Actionscript3 based projects, produced by Adobe (formerly Macromedia). Completely free, command-line, written in java (runs on mac,win,linux). Not open source.

---------

The only thing you can't do with open source tools is view / create .FLA files. But the only thing you lose is the designer's environment, which simply gets in the way of most programmers. Flash development is really opening up, which is a good thing. That was one of the few (very few) advantages Java applets have held over flash in the past. The other advantage (raw processing speed), is also being closed with flash 9, which has a completely new actionscript VM which is up to 10 times faster than flash 8. Check out some neat abuses of processing power, on flashscene.org

#110091 - Payk - Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:31 pm

For nintendo ds:
If you need a publisher, you will need a good worked out concept, a team, a good game. Maybe not finished. Then you could serach an investor/publisher. Try your luck and call some publishers which already got licenses for nds. But to be serios, its not easy i guess.
Without the license and money for it, you realy need to have made a miracle on nds. There was for exmple a gp2x rpg which was published for PSP even it was 2D. Its possible. GO AHEAD!!!
;P

What i really dont like is, how games like tr: legends with all its bugs gets to ds. Or superman which doesnt even use the titlemusic...and good homebrew-stuff is totaly ignored :(

Mobile-Phone games is a better start i guess. Earn money there for a wii licens. But money wont be enough to get that licens...look at wario world page

#110121 - HyperHacker - Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:41 pm

tepples wrote:
In this post, HyperHacker wrote:
If you were an established game developer who's published a few games

Which games do you suggest making first in order to become established, and for which platform?
Bit silly question isn't it? Do you mean which type of games? I say just do what you enjoy and can do well.

tepples wrote:
M3d10n wrote:
Without any strong tie-ins with the game industry, the only way to go are the open platforms (the PC and it's brethen), where you can develop and (theorically) sell games without being tied to someone.

Which open platform is set-top or handheld?
The laptop, the PDA, and the GP2X to name a few.
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#110123 - tepples - Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:57 pm

HyperHacker wrote:
tepples wrote:
In this post, HyperHacker wrote:
If you were an established game developer who's published a few games

Which games do you suggest making first in order to become established, and for which platform?

Bit silly question isn't it? Do you mean which type of games?

Yes.

HyperHacker wrote:
I say just do what you enjoy and can do well.

The problem is that something like Bomberman or Smash Bros., where all four players' characters are in a small arena together and the screen displays the entire arena or at least enough of it to show all four players, won't sell on PCs because as I understand it, too few PC owners are willing to connect a PC to a large screen and connect two to four gamepads through a USB hub. If that is not the case, then why aren't more party style games ported to PC?

HyperHacker wrote:
tepples wrote:

Which open platform is set-top or handheld?
The laptop, the PDA, and the GP2X to name a few.

Which PDA has a decent directional pad? And aren't an increasing number of PDAs built into mobile phones, whose network operators restrict what applications may be run? And why haven't I seen a single advertisement or news report about GP2X on the mainstream media in the United States?
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#110128 - HyperHacker - Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:16 pm

No reason those games can't be played online just because the screen shows all four players. PDAs have touch screens which can replace D-Pads if need be, and GP2X isn't popular.
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#110134 - tepples - Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:32 pm

HyperHacker wrote:
No reason those games can't be played online just because the screen shows all four players.

If a game does not support multiple gamepads per PC, and two to four people who live in the same household or are attending the same family reunion want to play against one another, they have to have their own PC (combined $3,000 for four PCs) and usually their own CD key.

Quote:
PDAs have touch screens which can replace D-Pads if need be

Did anybody actually like that method of control in Super Mario 64 DS?
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-- Where is he?
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#110143 - gauauu - Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:13 pm

tepples wrote:
...or do they require each developer to purchase a copy of Adobe Flash?
.....
What does it take to be hired in games development, other than a BSCS degree plus several thousand dollars to relocate oneself thousands of miles to a different state?


As unfair as it is, sometimes you have to make personal monetary investments to make it further professionally. For example, buying an expensive suit or suits is necessary before many companies (less so with tech companies) will hire you. Just an investment you have to make.

Although most companies will pay to help relocate you, you may have to start small, taking crappy or freelance jobs before landing the job you really want.

Quote:
The problem is that something like Bomberman or Smash Bros., where all four players' characters are in a small arena together and the screen displays the entire arena or at least enough of it to show all four players, won't sell on PCs because as I understand it, too few PC owners are willing to connect a PC to a large screen and connect two to four gamepads through a USB hub. If that is not the case, then why aren't more party style games ported to PC?


That may be the case, but there were some very popular free games that were of this style. Who here HASN'T spent hours playing Liero or Armagetron?

#110189 - OOPMan - Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:01 pm

tepples wrote:

Quote:
PDAs have touch screens which can replace D-Pads if need be

Did anybody actually like that method of control in Super Mario 64 DS?


Good point. I played it for about half an hour with the stylus and then stopped with a sore wrist...
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#110209 - MrD - Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:35 pm

tepples wrote:

Did anybody actually like that method of control in Super Mario 64 DS?

I got 144 stars using the stylus.

Edit - Not that I particularly like the method, but it does work.
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#110230 - keldon - Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:18 am

Same goes for metroid. I played the demo on someone's DS and it encouraged me not to buy the game.

#110275 - Optihut - Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:23 pm

keldon wrote:
Same goes for metroid. I played the demo on someone's DS and it encouraged me not to buy the game.


I have only played the first section of Metroid Prime Hunters - the controls really are horrible, it would have helped already if the ABXY lookaround control and the stylus could be activated at the same time, but no, it's an either or deal. With ABXY the game plays smoothly and hassle free, but it's impossible to beat bosses with that, so I had to switch back to the stylus.

Far more annoying than the controls is the safe point system, though. On a handheld system, it's important to have a scaleable playing time from one minute to half an hour or more, depending on the time of your commute, etc.

#110406 - HyperHacker - Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:18 am

tepples wrote:
HyperHacker wrote:
No reason those games can't be played online just because the screen shows all four players.

If a game does not support multiple gamepads per PC, and two to four people who live in the same household or are attending the same family reunion want to play against one another, they have to have their own PC (combined $3,000 for four PCs) and usually their own CD key.

Why are you so hung up on the idea that you can't connect multiple gamepads to a PC?
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#110416 - keldon - Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:08 pm

HyperHacker wrote:
tepples wrote:
HyperHacker wrote:
No reason those games can't be played online just because the screen shows all four players.

If a game does not support multiple gamepads per PC, and two to four people who live in the same household or are attending the same family reunion want to play against one another, they have to have their own PC (combined $3,000 for four PCs) and usually their own CD key.

Why are you so hung up on the idea that you can't connect multiple gamepads to a PC?


Since he mentioned CD keys, I am guessing he was referring to commercial games. But one thing to note is that most PC monitors are the size of portable televisions, are usually positioned in a section of the room not suitable for multiplayer and few people go through the trouble of getting a usb hub to free up ports for 4 controllers.

#110454 - MrD - Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:35 pm

keldon wrote:
HyperHacker wrote:
tepples wrote:
HyperHacker wrote:
No reason those games can't be played online just because the screen shows all four players.

If a game does not support multiple gamepads per PC, and two to four people who live in the same household or are attending the same family reunion want to play against one another, they have to have their own PC (combined $3,000 for four PCs) and usually their own CD key.

Why are you so hung up on the idea that you can't connect multiple gamepads to a PC?


Since he mentioned CD keys, I am guessing he was referring to commercial games. But one thing to note is that most PC monitors are the size of portable televisions, are usually positioned in a section of the room not suitable for multiplayer and few people go through the trouble of getting a usb hub to free up ports for 4 controllers.

You're not a zSnes Bomberman fan then?

(Don't have an adapter, don't have four snes pads.)
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#110466 - tepples - Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:25 pm

HyperHacker wrote:
Why are you so hung up on the idea that you can't connect multiple gamepads to a PC?

Of all the recent commercial games for Windows that I've tried, only Serious Sam allows use of more than one gamepad. The PC port of the Bomberman franchise hasn't been updated in years. As for non-PC versions, please don't brag about your piracy or "backups" on forum.gbadev.org. This goes for Super NES piracy as well as GBA and DS piracy.

keldon wrote:
most PC monitors are the size of portable televisions

Many PC video cards, including the one in my PC, have a jack labeled "S-video output". My own PC is connected to a 17-inch 1024x768 pixel LCD in front of me and a 25-inch 480i CRT behind me. So why don't more PC owners take advantage of this connector? One PC in the home office and one in the living room is a lot cheaper than one PC in each of four bedrooms.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.