#121353 - keldon - Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:40 pm
If I was born 1000 years ago I would have invented today's accounting principles, revolutionised theories on computation, got there before Dijkstra and left a legacy.
Everything I think of has either been done, being done, or just costs too much to finance. I wish I was born in the past.
#121355 - sgeos - Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:48 pm
| keldon wrote: |
| Everything I think of has either been done, being done, or just costs too much to finance. I wish I was born in the past. |
I imagine you would experience the same problems there as well. Just keep trying, you'll come up with something.
-Brendan
#121376 - Ant6n - Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:51 am
I guess today everything has been invented, so from there there is no where to go.
#121377 - wintermute - Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:32 am
| Ant6n wrote: |
| I guess today everything has been invented, so from there there is no where to go. |
Didn't they say that in the late 19th or early 20th century?
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#121381 - keldon - Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:00 am
| wintermute wrote: |
| Ant6n wrote: | | I guess today everything has been invented, so from there there is no where to go. |
Didn't they say that in the late 19th or early 20th century? |
Yes, but at least I could have invented texture mapping or something like that. Maybe I'm just being a big baby, but I don't care; I've got the credentials to have invented something. I'm 22 this month and I haven't invented anything yet, by this time Einstein had already published his paper on "Consequences of the observations of capillarity phenomena".
I tried a new effect, and the researcher said I'm a generation too late, it's in all of the next gen's GPU's now! I've been thinking of it since I first came across 3d.
#121382 - Ant6n - Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:03 am
that was an attempt at sarcasm.
i.e. i have often 'invented' things that turned out to exist already, and thought 'man, if i'd been there'. but it often turns out that the 'invention' may have been the conclusion or combination of things known to me, which might only be the result of the same 'invention', or, might have not been known at the time of the invention. Sometimes knowing the need of the invention is the major part about it; and thinking 'I figured it out', but already knowing the need is just misleading yourself.
#121383 - keldon - Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:21 am
That can be the case, but not always. I think that the need for a particular technology motivates invention more than previous knowledge assisting it. However knowledge that it does exist may help a lot as you know there is a solution to be found instead of having an incline that the solution might exist. It also means that a precedent has already been set, and something to judge your work by.
It can also be argued that half of the invention is identifying the need, and that the success of an invention is merely a measure of its demand. Like my [current] signature says, intelligence is not having the answer but asking the question. Not the correct meaning of intelligence, maybe I should attribute it to wisdom or find another word that better suits it.
Actually a way to explain what you was saying would be to give an example of solving a dynamic programming problem. These types of problems are impossible for the beginner programmer, but once you know what dynamic programming is you find that these problems are much easier to solve when you first approach them. So just knowing about dynamic programming opens you up to a whole array of problem solving; just like finding special cases for NP-hard problems.
#121396 - Miked0801 - Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:38 am
It's a very old idea. Check out Ecclesiastes.
#121401 - Ant6n - Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:44 am
you mean like
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastes
"...In light of this perceived senselessness, the teacher suggests that one should enjoy the simple pleasures of daily life, such as eating, drinking, and taking enjoyment in one's wife and work," ?
(who wrote this ? :p)
#121406 - zzo38computer - Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:22 am
I think if you were born in the past, then probably you are dead in the past as well and not writing messages in this web site
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#121409 - Ant6n - Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:35 am
Is being 22 a credential for having to have invented something?
Does anybody find something 'new' by looking for something 'new'?
#121411 - HyperHacker - Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:53 am
I sometimes wish I was born in ~1947, so I could enjoy the 60s. Ah well, I guess I'll just keep working on that time machine...
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#121417 - sgeos - Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:09 am
| Ant6n wrote: |
| Does anybody find something 'new' by looking for something 'new'? |
Inventing is a process. It is not magic. Anyone who thinks you can just invent something amazing off the top of your head is diluded. Most inventions start small, unamazing and useless and. At first, they fail and people who don't understand inventing laugh at both the invention and the inventor. You are generally looking at Mad Invention #123 working and being useful. The first 122 versions won't be worth much.
There are plenty of things left to be invented, but inventing is not easy. If you think you are cut out to be an inventor, keep trying. Study all sorts of fields. Solutions often but not always come from something that is apparently unrelated. You can also try testing a permutation of components even if you think you know the result. They may well fail, but you might learn something you didn't know before you started.
| Quote: |
| Is being 22 a credential for having to have invented something? |
Not having put enough time in yet, generally. I guess it depends on how you spend your time.
-Brendan
#121421 - keldon - Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:57 am
| HyperHacker wrote: |
| I sometimes wish I was born in ~1947, so I could enjoy the 60s. Ah well, I guess I'll just keep working on that time machine... |
Maybe that's it.
| Ant6n wrote: |
| Is being 22 a credential for having to have invented something? |
Not quite, but we [at uni] noticed that many people made their major discoveries and breakthroughs in their twenties. Like one researcher [at my uni] who created an algorithm that can turn a proof for a solution into an efficient solution! Or one of our lecturers who isn't even 30 yet and has some amazing papers on searching.
Maybe it has something to do with the youthful nature of pondering, questions and curiosity and questions leading to solutions.
Mike may be speaking about vanity in Ecclesiastes.
My post wasn't that serious by the way!
#121426 - sgeos - Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:58 am
| keldon wrote: |
| Ant6n wrote: | | Is being 22 a credential for having to have invented something? |
Not quite, but we [at uni] noticed that many people made their major discoveries and breakthroughs in their twenties. Like one researcher [at my uni] who created an algorithm that can turn a proof for a solution into an efficient solution! Or one of our lecturers who isn't even 30 yet and has some amazing papers on searching. |
Isn't that when most people work on Master's degrees and PhDs?
| Code: |
Age Schooling
0 ~ 3 stay at home
3 ~ 5 preschool
5 ~ 6 kindergarten
6 ~ 12 elementary school
12 ~ 15 middle school
15 ~ 18 high school
18 ~ 22 university (undergraduate)
22 ~ 24 university (masters)
24 ~ 2x university (phd) |
Masters degrees and PhDs can take longer depending on the subject. I have heard that history PhDs take ~6 years or so.
-Brendan
#121484 - tepples - Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:54 pm
| Miked0801 wrote: |
| It's a very old idea. Check out Ecclesiastes. |
For those playing along who don't have a copy of the Tanach handy, here's Ecclesiastes 1:9:
| King Solomon wrote: |
| What has been shall be, and what is done shall be done, and [there is] nothing new under the sun. |
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#121501 - keldon - Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:23 pm
We all have copies of the Tanach ^_^
#121530 - Ant6n - Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:32 pm
| keldon wrote: |
Maybe it has something to do with the youthful nature of pondering, questions and curiosity and questions leading to solutions.
|
ever since i am in school (as ugrad) my pondering has actually been gradually declining. Maybe that's why i should ponder myself some invention before i get 30ish-phd-pondering-illiterate.
but then again, why bother to contemplate about this?
#121561 - gauauu - Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:30 am
| Ant6n wrote: |
ever since i am in school (as ugrad) my pondering has actually been gradually declining. |
Hehe...I found college to be the point in my life at which I did the least amount of self-motivated learning and thinking. I think all the classes just took it out of me. A year out of school, and I was writing code for fun, and learning stuff on my own again.
#121575 - Ant6n - Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:44 am
out of school in the 'real' world? ... i am afraid. i wanna stay comfy here, even if it sucks away on all the brain stamina
#121577 - sgeos - Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:03 am
| Ant6n wrote: |
| out of school in the 'real' world? ... i am afraid. i wanna stay comfy here, even if it sucks away on all the brain stamina |
You could be a professional student. Live off loans and then skip the country when they won't give you any more. (sarcastic, although it happens)
-Brendan
#121624 - tepples - Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:06 pm
| Ant6n wrote: |
| out of school in the 'real' world? ... i am afraid. i wanna stay comfy here, even if it sucks away on all the brain stamina |
It's called "become a professor".
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-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#121671 - spinal_cord - Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:35 pm
| keldon wrote: |
| If I was born 1000 years ago I would have invented today's accounting principles, revolutionised theories on computation, got there before Dijkstra and left a legacy. |
If it were possible that you would do it 1000 years ago, why not put those brain cells to work and do it now? I think you would not have done it back then, as you would not have your modern education and not have the faintest idea that accounting would need revolutionised.
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#121673 - keldon - Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:51 pm
Accounting situations existed but the principles we live by were only formalized in the 15th century. We are all able to find solutions, but situations where there are no formal approaches often belong to a set of problems that have not been raised as problems.
When I say something new, I don't mean something like the theory of relativity. Line drawing, shortest path and texture mapping routines are what I am thinking of. For example when I failed to find algorithms or usable approaches to rendering semi-transparent polygons in software (without resorting to sorting a list of pixels with time) I decided to find my own way. If I came to a method that would be used in the future in the same way as Bresenham's line drawing method, or Tom Duff's formulae for alpha blending I would be pleased with my days work.
The only reason I talk about the past is that a lot of what we take for granted was only formalized recently (relatively speaking).
#121707 - Ant6n - Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:50 am
there are little tricks in software redering that come to mind once in a while, but they are pretty useless; cuz a software renderer that could run quake on a handheld is not interesting - since the hardware can do it already. so yeah, seems like wasted effort. but its fun neverthalas
#122088 - Lick - Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:20 pm
Exactly how I feel actually. I feel useless in a system where everyone can become a professor, no matter what their brains are capable of. Everyday I see stupid people being richer and more successful and I simply hate it.
Nowadays people won't recognize you until you really do something wonderful, like earning billion dollars of developing a website.
Geniuses go to waste.
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#122096 - sgeos - Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:38 pm
| Lick wrote: |
| Geniuses go to waste. |
Then are they really geniuses? There are a lot of smart people in the world.
Don't fall into the trap of believing that smart people are entitled just because they are smart. Being smart is not worth much of anything. Hard work and/or money gets people places, not brains. You have to put your brain to work if you want to do well in the world.
-Brendan
#122199 - Miked0801 - Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:47 pm
| Quote: |
Nowadays people won't recognize you until you really do something wonderful, like earning billion dollars of developing a website.
Geniuses go to waste.
|
Do you really need to feel that recognition so bad? Bah. Here's some advice that I'm sure you've heard many times before. Most people who are wealty "rich" do so my working hard, learning hard, saving money, and not whining. You are entitled to nothing, but can earn almost anything in the US. So if you want it, start doing things that will get it.
#122223 - sgeos - Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:08 pm
| Miked0801 wrote: |
| You are entitled to nothing, but can earn almost anything in the US. So if you want it, start doing things that will get it. |
I agree with your overall message- workers are more valuable than thinkers and whiners and are rewarded as such.
I do, however, caution people against believing too strongly in meritocracy. People born with money and power are predisposed to getting (retaining) money and power. This is more or less how the entire world works. For what it's worth, in the US, there is little stigma related to vertical social movement even if it rarely happens in practice. (Things like caste systems more or less prevent vertical social movement; people stay within the caste.)
-Brendan
#122242 - keldon - Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:35 am
I wouldn't want us to confuse thinking with not doing anything. I was under the impression that those with the ideas are rarely the people who push it out into existence. They merely find the creation, and it's usually accredited to the person with the will (or ability) to make it happen on the large scale. Traffic lights and Hoovers are fine examples.
#122245 - sgeos - Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:56 am
| keldon wrote: |
| I wouldn't want us to confuse thinking with not doing anything. |
If you do nothing but think, you may as well be doing nothing. You need to do something with your ideas for them to be worth anything, even if it is just talking about them. Just don't expect to get rich by talking. =)
| keldon wrote: |
| I was under the impression that those with the ideas are rarely the people who push it out into existence. |
The real pioneers are rarely the ones to make it big. If they even get off the ground with their idea, someone with more money usually takes them with gamblers' ruin.
| Quote: |
| They merely find the creation, and it's usually accredited to the person with the will (or ability) to make it happen on the large scale. Traffic lights and Hoovers are fine examples. |
Right. Look at MS Windows. It is slowly improving on concepts developed in the 60s, if I recall correctly. I didn't know that until just recently.
-Brendan
#122246 - keldon - Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:07 am
Well for arguments sake let's not mention Microsoft ^_^
| sgeos wrote: |
| If you do nothing but think, you may as well be doing nothing |
I don't know what drives me, but once I think something I have to know! Take [again] my semi-transparent texture mapping routine; I don't think anyone else adopts that method yet (although the application of graphics would have no need for complex semi-transparency).
| sgeos wrote: |
| The real pioneers are rarely the ones to make it big. If they even get off the ground with their idea, someone with more money usually takes them with gamblers' ruin. |
I think that's down to Entrepreneurship!
#132097 - keldon - Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:51 am
#132152 - RegalSin - Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:31 pm
I just replying since I am just checking messages and putting my input in.
Personally Inspriation is everywhere. If you see something, dream something, say something, do something, or live something it is called inspiration.
On the topic of getting your foot in the door of Microsoft to sabatoage there BSOD funiture and using college for this it will work two ways.
1. You go for your degree, diploma, sheeps skin, or certificate and you show off your talents. This is what I am doing now where I am ready to work right now under a big project ( yet I don't have anything in my pockets to get anything of the ground ) but nobody is willing to hire me without a certificate.
2. You know people and they say they can get you a job at some place doing what you know how to do ( somebody here was doing this ) but the problem with this you need trust and respect which is very hard to find. Like I had a teacher who was a actress and was in big NYC plays so her freinds would inform each other of Jobs and productions.
3. You do 2. but you need 1. first dew to eqaul opertunity. In the US they have to hire the person who has the Diploma over the Certificate 99.9% of the time even if they both get paid the same amount for that work.
I know there might be more ways but I am out of suggestions at the moment.
For me I am a Self Proclaimed artist and I have to promote my work via Internet or threw examples like comics and drawings or project animations
that I successfully do alone most of my time.
Even if I do get a chance to work at a VG studio I have to deal with people
that want me to draw something I might now and how people want me to draw.
This is why I am getting all my ideas, dreams, etc out on paper and into picture or comic format.
Also being in the US Comic books is the most respected form of art along with 3d animation ( since most in the west can't draw for there lives ) is becoming extremely popular.
If I ever made it then it would be me in my workshop drawing whatever I want like Amaro, DB, Ranma, for whatever project is given. Now thanks to 3d it will be harder for my work to be respected or even noticed.
In America it is crazy hard to get noticed. All I ever see and hear about is Stan Lee this and Stan Lee that.
The last time I seen somebody did something in the artworld and was big was Samurai Jack and PowerPuff girls.
Imagine the game world.
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#132295 - ScottLininger - Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:00 pm
| keldon wrote: |
| I wouldn't want us to confuse thinking with not doing anything. I was under the impression that those with the ideas are rarely the people who push it out into existence. They merely find the creation, and it's usually accredited to the person with the will (or ability) to make it happen on the large scale. Traffic lights and Hoovers are fine examples. |
This is still the case for manufactured products or for mass market/direct-to-consumer software. But combine the internet with the fact that a small team of programmers can create commercial-quality software, and you have a world where a talented team with a good idea can create very successful businesses.
The world has changed. You no longer need massive capital to try out an unproven business idea.
-Scott
#132311 - keldon - Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:36 pm
But what will the world look like when FOSS leads the market? Unless we can develop the development process and transfer of information and knowledge it will be terribly stumped.
FOSS (even at this early stage) has created an anti-segment, the opposite of productive marketing (which I almost made a rant about). Proprietary software may use proprietary traps to force you to spend $300 in order to be able to open documents that other colleagues write (when they so easily could have used OpenOffice) but the fewer options and reduced complexity of a UI without advanced options that are easily separable from lesser advanced options wins hands down. Unfortunately very few FOSS products approach it in this way, and the only one that comes to mind is Azureus.
FOSS can have a good future but to be honest much more research is needed.
#132343 - ScottLininger - Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:29 am
FOSS is a threat to the big guys, not the little guys.
A 2-man team is never going to program a serious competitor to, say, Photoshop. That's FOSS's territory.
On the other hand, a massive FOSS team is never going to bother creating a web-based image filter that turns satellite photos into vector land-usage maps. (That's just a random example for a problem-solving bit of code that might have real world utility for a small but well-capitalized market.)
The challenge is finding a niche that's under-served and has a real need for some clever software. Yes, a market of 10 million people who'll each pay $100 for a piece of software is attractive, but that's a hard nut to crack. Better to look for a market of a few thousand customers who'll pay $5000 a seat, or better yet $100/month/seat, than to try and take on Microsoft.
-Scott
#132405 - keldon - Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:38 pm
Well that's about as close to the truth as you can get. Linux has a 50-80% market share of the web server, render farm, and supercomputer markets but only 0.7% of the desktop market share. You will also find Linux being used with high powered embedded hardware, such as keyboards.
I once remember a ?10,000 keyboard running on Windows; but now Linux is becoming more and more popular - being used in the Mediastation and the powerful Yamaha Motif XS (running MontaVista Linux).
FOSS is doing a great job of competing with the 'big dogs' technically, but in my opinion it is lacking big time as a product. Most FOSS projects are FOSS and not products, and the people involved in the movement need to be aware of this. There are few 'products', and those few products are successful in their area - such as Apache and (possibly) OpenOffice.org. I do not consider Gimp to be a "product", for the same way that Usenti is not a product. Great tools they are, in fact better tools than any available proprietary product - but they are tools with some dangerously powerful yet unchannelled product potential.
Well that's my view of most of FOSS's power. I have ideas as to how it can go mainstream; but if it did, if OpenOffice.org squashed MSOffice, Gimp squashed Photoshop and the majority of users were using OpenSource packages (paid or free) then what? Will open source produce code that can be unrivalled to the point that commercial competition is no longer viable without joining the GPL and producing only open source software? If (or when) open source succeeds and that becomes the reality, then I hope we end up with fewer "products" that do the job as opposed to the current norm of 1,000 products that do near enough the same thing - creating consumer confusion!
- Keldon Alleyne </article>
p.s. I was purposely being overly controversial with my "Gimp isn't a product" statement; but I'm sure you get the idea that I was putting across