#131322 - keldon - Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:36 am
| http://www.javagaming.org/forums/index.php?topic=16890.new#new wrote: |
I'm wondering about the copyright issues & legalities of creating your own 2d artwork from someone else's real world object.
Example:
1. Purchase a real figurine / model miniature made by company X.
2. Light it well, photograph it well to produce an amazing picture.
3. Apply (in Photoshop) great effects and a particular artistic style that fits with your game.
4. Presto! Wonderful 2D artwork to include in your game.
Seems that if you went to all the hard work to create the photo and the resulting image, you should automatically own the copyright on that image and have rights to use it as you please.
However, I'm *guessing* that you wouldn't be allowed to incorporate this into a game you wished to release and sell, for the simple reason that the source object was created by company X, who will own the copyright - regardless of the skill and hard work it would take to produce the final stylized 2d image.
Now I'm not talking about using something easily recognisable or franchised, like something from Spiderman or Pirates of the Carribean - I'm talking about just a 'generic' model of a person or a building (something you'd find in a tourist shop for example).
Thoughts? |
Discuss!
#131324 - tepples - Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:15 am
Even "generic" models can be considered copyrighted sculptures if there is any originality to them.
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#131327 - keldon - Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:44 am
To what extend does "originality" stretch? With a figure or a character it tends to be a collection of distinct and recognisable features; but certain types of figures - such as chibi models - all look remarkably similar. In fact the main differences tend to be the hair and costume, and possibly some other random thing.
#131345 - keldon - Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:12 pm
#131407 - RegalSin - Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:44 am
The method you described is good old fashion pre-rendering. Where use a picture in place of 3d or a hand drawn sprite.
For example
Mortal Kombat is really people dressed up in real costumes with a high definition picture used. Of course they save it to 256 so that all the colors could appear.
Super Mario RPG where the entire enviorment is made in 3d but is just really really nice pictures.
Final Fantasy7
Final Fantasy8
Final Fantasy9
The entire Resident Evil series uincluding the Dreamcast version of Veronica and the GCN only games.
Render Rangers R2....The entire enviorment is pre rendered in 3d unincluding a few sprites.
Virtua Hydlide--- The trees are like doom sprites standing up along with all the enemies. The main characters is really pictures of people and some in costume.
Gex 3...Has some FMV with a real actor.
All FMV movies games basically like Night trap.
There is lots of real world objects in games already the thing is unless you make a bid deal about then it might be wise to reconsider.
I was thinking about doing game like that where we dress up in costumes to make the sprites. It would be something like Feda Emble Of Justice but with real pictures being used for the actions.
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#131412 - keldon - Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:46 am
Yes, but they are using their own models; I'm talking about using an existing doll or figurine that you may find in a boot sale or a $1 shop.
#131419 - RegalSin - Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:22 am
Well that would have to be something that is uncommon. Like I can't use my Geomon or Knuckles figure. However I could use my snake or teddy bears that I have for years and is not a iconic figure.
In movies I see alot of iconic figures dolls being used all over the place in other coutries especially Asia.
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Graphics Design Major currently enrolled in CUNY for a start in art world. A figure artist who can create people, babies, Aliens, animals, cowboys, beasties, warriors, cyborgs, monsters. I am limited by tools, refrence materials that is provided.
#131420 - sgeos - Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:16 am
Instead of thinking about the legal theory, try thinking about it from a practical standpoint.
Will they find out about it? Depends on your budget. Probably not if your game never gets very popular.
If they find out about it, will the will they go after you? If it has been sufficiently modified, then chances are extremely slim unless a whole lot of money is on the table. Otherwise it depends on the corporate culture of the other company, etc. Some companies always "defend" themselves.
I suspect that they would start with a cease and desist letter. If at that point you cooperate and remove the offending item, I suspect that will end things right there. Your only loss- you just need to find some new art. That is not legal advice. Talk to a lawyer before doing something like this.
-Brendan
#131422 - kusma - Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:52 am
To look at it from the other side; if I found someone had taken any of MY dolls/figurines into a commercial product, I'd hire a lawyer right away. I guess my main concern would be justification for the work, and the copyright of my own characters. If you sell a game with characters loaned from somewhere else and it becomes popular, chances are there will be spin-off merchandise. And that's something I'd be concerned about. Would someone possibly start selling clones of my dolls/figurines without me getting a penny of the sales?
#131430 - keldon - Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:02 pm
Good point; although this person suggests to dress them up (oh gosh that sounds wrong) in their own style. Having said that a well known doll such as Power Puff or Winnie the Pooh couldn't be used, but don't all dolls pretty much look the same?
#131514 - sgeos - Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:19 pm
For what it's worth, any large company will have lawyers on call. They get paid whether they are busy or not, so sending a cease and desist letter doesn't cost the company anything extra.
-Brendan
#131669 - ScottLininger - Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:53 pm
If the 3D character is trademarked, then any representation of that character that is identifiable is in violation and will get you in trouble. For example, no matter HOW you render or create Mickey Mouse, Disney will come after you if you use him in a game.
If a 3D sculpture or object isn't explicitly trademarked, then I think you'd be okay using the shape to create a derivative piece of art. But I suspect that any commercially available doll or the like will be trademarked.
-Scott
#131670 - RegalSin - Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:54 pm
About this it does not have to famous figures or recent figures. Just things that appear normal to everybody. I am positive I have seen games with real world items pre-rendered or remade into hand drawn or computerized sprites.
A great example is South Park and how they have billions of things from the real world and use them constantly.
About 3d characters that is entirely diffrent you can resuse somebody else characters since that is not a big deal as long as you don't reuse there names.
this conversation reminds me of what the prinicipal artist was talking about in project A-ko.
Everybody here should watch the first project A-ko with the guys vioce in the background. What he says explains threwout the film alot about borrowing characters.
Personally in terms of animation we can borrow away and thus games also. I was thinking of making a 3d game where we use all kinds of characters from other games but since it is in 3d no body is going to pres charges.
Also I see it being pretty dorky to sue people over characters even in a videogames. I mean Viewtiful Joe makes Mario Sounds, DKC2 had Sonic shoes and Earthworm Jims Ray gun by the trash and I even think DKC2 had a pre-rendered Sonic until you took it place in heroes.
Then in Perfect Dark they literrially took James Bond to the 21st Century ( or is it 30th century or year 2000???? ) . Pefect Dark is practically James Bond.
Then again remember Space Balls. While it was a comedy with many Jokes via Starwars they made there own thing up also.
Still it should not stop anybody from even pre-rendering anything or what would be sadder is making sprites.
The word I like to use is called inspiration.
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Graphics Design Major currently enrolled in CUNY for a start in art world. A figure artist who can create people, babies, Aliens, animals, cowboys, beasties, warriors, cyborgs, monsters. I am limited by tools, refrence materials that is provided.
#131728 - Lynx - Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:50 pm
| Quote: |
| Some companies always "defend" themselves. |
Trademarks are required to be defended, or you will lose them.
| Quote: |
| To look at it from the other side; if I found someone had taken any of MY dolls/figurines into a commercial product, I'd hire a lawyer right away. |
That said, without consulting a lawyer, I would guess.. ;) That statment can put a small company out of business with nothing to show for it. Keep in mind, that you have to prove that the initial item was in fact your product. Depending on the amount of modification to the drawing, that might not be possible. But, anyone can sue anyone without any proof of anything. It just cost money for the filing fees. Now, that doesn't mean it will not be dismissed right away, but you can do it.
So, before a company was going to spend a bunch of money to go after you, they would have to do the investigation to make sure you did in fact use their product as a starting point. Unless you come strait out and say you did, most likely it would not go anywhere. Again, based on a generic doll model that could be from any company or even sclupted by a friend.
As for parody, USA has laws allowing parody. So, if you are going to use a well known character, make sure your doing a parody of it..
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