#140062 - meshounah - Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:14 am
When i get my Wii i want to do a bit of experimenting on ways to run homebrew.
here is my ideas:
*exploit a game like PSO(not likely)
*have a rom file that looks like a virtual console title
*exploit save game data like that is used in the GTA exploit for psp
*if they add dvd support trick the firmware into thinking a rom is a video
that is all i can think of right now what are your ideas and comments
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#140063 - tepples - Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:23 am
| meshounah wrote: |
| *have a rom file that looks like a virtual console title |
RSA.
| Quote: |
| *exploit save game data like that is used in the GTA exploit for psp |
You mean SaveMe. I've hex viewed a Wii Sports save, and it looks like that's RSA'd too, so as to keep people from "illuminating" the Wii. But unless there's some sort of Trusted Computing going on, we may be able to observe Wii Sports being executed and find the key that it uses to sign saves, just as the people who created MechInstaller found MechAssault's key.
But is there a vulnerability in the GIF, JPEG, or PNG decoder of Photo Channel or Internet Channel? That's how various 2.x PSP firmwares got cracked, through vulnerabilities in the TIFF decoder.
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#140064 - meshounah - Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:28 am
hmm RSA encryption... looks like Nintendo learned what Sony did. But there might be a good exploit. On a side note Wikipedia said "A carefully crafted page could crash Opera" do you have any information on this?
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#140065 - calcprogrammer1 - Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:35 am
Homebrew isn't looking good for the Wii. It used to be that you could run GameCube homebrew on the Wii, but with the 3.0 patch, it blocked Action Replays and SD Loaders, so the only option (and I'm unsure if it works or not because I don't use it) is modchips. I know someone wrote a DVD player but it only worked with a modchip.
Some ideas I'm thinking of:
*Exploit Photo Channel to crash and load data off of an SD card (Unlikely)
*Crash the Browser using a bad Flash application (Possible, but they've fixed numerous potential entry points already)
*Hack the Shop Channel to redirect to a PC server (kinda PSO-exploit-ish), but you'd have to crack the encryption first
*Find another way to load GC homebrew, then somehow break out of GC mode back to Wii mode (near impossible, but who knows?)
*There's a possibility of an unbricking mode (along the lines of the PSP battery hack, and my PDA (Dell Axim X50v) has a special mode to reflash firmware through SD card by holding a special button combination) where you would either press a button combo, short a motherboard terminal or jumper, attach something to USB port, or trigger an event over Bluetooth to reload an image (unlikely)
*Use a modchip, dump the firmware, hack the firmware to allow unsigned code to run (along the lines of the DS FlashMe), then reflash it and remove the modchip, possibly do the same w/o modchip if Datel releases some sort of Homebrew disc along the lines of the SDML
*Use the disc-swap trick (I tried, couldn't get it to work) where you take out an official GC game and insert a homebrew one before it boots, but this seems to have been fixed, as removing a disc during boot causes the system to reboot.
*Exploit a game (possible, but there aren't too many Internet games out for the Wii yet)
*Exploit a game save file (copy a save to the SD card, mess with it on the PC, send it back to the Wii, crash the game, and then load code from the SD)
*Make an SD Load like code when the Wii Action Replay comes out, use it to run a homebrew firmware dumper (if you don't flash the firmware, Nintendo will kill compatibility with the next release, so a hacked firmware is a must)
Well, I'm out of ideas...but I really want some nice homebrew running on that shiny little console...it would make such a great $250 media center, I mean, the Wiimote is an awesome controller for a media center...
BTW...You CAN use the Wiimote (the Wii Remote controller) on your PC using a Bluetooth device, you can play emulators, games, even control the mouse and keyboard with it.
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#140068 - meshounah - Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:46 am
i thought of somehow breaking out of gamecube mode but i think that might "hard-coded" into the processor and graphics card
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#140070 - tepples - Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:22 am
| calcprogrammer1 wrote: |
| Well, I'm out of ideas...but I really want some nice homebrew running on that shiny little console...it would make such a great $250 media center, I mean, the Wiimote is an awesome controller for a media center... |
Hacked Apple TV? Cheapass mini-ITX?
| meshounah wrote: |
| i thought of somehow breaking out of gamecube mode but i think that might "hard-coded" into the processor and graphics card |
Yeah, tell me when you've broken out of GBA mode on a Game Boy Player or a DS.
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#140071 - calcprogrammer1 - Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:39 am
I'm pretty sure that it's hardware locked that once you enter GC mode, you're in it until reset or power off, but it has been brought up that maybe Nintendo broke loaders on the Wii because they may be used to get in GC mode, break out, then run homebrew on the Wii...still, it's unlikely.
I'd say hacking a save or a WiFi transmission would be more feasible, but hacking the disc encryption would be perfection, because you could use a pressed CD made by probably Datel to get homebrew, though pressed CDs are expensive and Nintendo will break compatibility, so make sure there's a firmware mod or workaround when possible.
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#140086 - meshounah - Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:37 pm
i doubt we could break out of gc mode but it might be possible. On the other hand i wish Nintendo would make a homebrew firmware that can't play commercial games.
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#140090 - Lynx - Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:04 pm
| Quote: |
| t would make such a great $250 media center, |
It already will. MythTV developers are working on using a flash frontend so that you won't even need to hack anything, just browse to your MythBackend server.
Edit: The problem with all the Datel (or any other manufacturer, for that matter) idaes is their products come out AFTER the homebrew scene has figured out how to do them.
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#140217 - GoopyMonkey - Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:54 am
Does using GlovePIE count as Wii homebrew? I wouldn't think so, but then again, it could just be Wiimote homebrew, if that. Anyway, there have been a range of scripts written for use for the Wiimote, but only a few of them are any use. In calcprogrammer1's list, I'm personally thinking that it will be another Action Replay code to get homebrew first.
Isn't there a hidden serial port on the Wii console?
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#140274 - RegalSin - Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:53 pm
| Quote: |
| but with the 3.0 patch, it blocked Action Replays and SD Loaders |
About getting a Wii that has never ever been updating and continuing development on that Wii.
I was just thinking about all these PS3, PSP, and now Wii Region code change with game updates.
To be honest that is making owning an original PS3, PSP, Wii 1.0 or whatever priceless to owning any upgrades.
Hs anybody here attempted to backup there PS3, PSP, Wii 1.0 original non upgraded state before upgrading and then downgrading again.
About the Freeloader trick that allows you to play GCN games of any sort on your Wii. I forget if it works with Wii games also.
Can you load Freeloader and then load correctly written GCN game file on simular media and then load your program game file.
Also what about just deving for GCN that use Wii technology. I am sure the GCN and the Wii is not so far off in programming.
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#140277 - calcprogrammer1 - Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:19 pm
I ordered an SD Media Launcher for GameCube. If I can't get a Media Center on the Wii, I wish that the GC had one, it's still plenty powerful to handle the decoding, but no one's written anything like it. There's GC-Linux, and it has media, but it only works from a PC server and I don't have a broadband adapter.
It'd be nice if the homebrew scene for GC were not so small...the only thing that seems to be out there is emulator ports. Maybe if more people got the SDML...
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#140320 - PeterM - Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:54 am
#140341 - meshounah - Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:59 pm
first off we will have to agree to a firmware version so we don't have firmware madness(*cough* psp) some other ideas:
exploit photo channels like tepples said
*proxy? so that when it tries to connect to the channels redirect it to another server? or is that rsa'd also?
*crash it with a malformed mii
swap a game CD with a DVD(if they make a dvd player for it) sadly the firmware would most likely be 3.0
i found this http://us.codejunkies.com/shop/product.asp?c=US&cr=USD&cs=$&r=0&l=1&ProdID=339
would a mod-chip be ok or would we be ground pounded by the dmca?
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#140372 - zzo38computer - Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:03 pm
| meshounah wrote: |
....
*crash it with a malformed mii |
No, a malformed mii just causes the file not to show up when viewed on the Wii. It checked for malformed miis even from the first version.
| meshounah wrote: |
| i doubt we could break out of gc mode but it might be possible. On the other hand i wish Nintendo would make a homebrew firmware that can't play commercial games. |
Or, make it switch to homebrew mode when certain buttons are held down, or something like that. Possibly make it also check for a header in the SD card to also enable homebrew without holding the buttons.
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#140377 - calcprogrammer1 - Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:31 pm
| meshounah" wrote: |
| swap a game CD with a DVD(if they make a dvd player for it) sadly the firmware would most likely be 3.0 |
The Wii already uses DVD technology, just as the GameCube used Mini-DVD. It's blocked by the firmware though, that's what modchips do currently, tell the firmware that backups/homebrew are real CD's instead of burned ones.
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#140440 - meshounah - Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:39 pm
is that datel drivedoctor any use?
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#140462 - tepples - Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:47 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| Quote: | | *exploit save game data like that is used in the GTA exploit for psp |
You mean SaveMe. I've hex viewed a Wii Sports save, and it looks like that's RSA'd too |
I was half right. Slashdot is running a story about the crypto on Wii saves. It's a digital signature, but it's not RSA. The next step is to find where the signing key comes from.
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#140486 - Dood77 - Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:11 pm
I've been wondering where the heck "hello, world" on Wii is for awhile now. It's obviously been an extremely popular console, so why hasn't anyone done the hacking? Why don't current mod chips support running unsigned code? Is it that hard to implement when you're adding your own custom hardware?
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#140494 - NeX - Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:57 pm
I think the encryption key is in the games! Why else would you not be able to copy a savegame to your Wii without playing the appropiate games first?
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#140605 - meshounah - Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:49 am
| Dood77 wrote: |
| I've been wondering where the heck "hello, world" on Wii is for awhile now. It's obviously been an extremely popular console, so why hasn't anyone done the hacking? Why don't current mod chips support running unsigned code? Is it that hard to implement when you're adding your own custom hardware? |
surely we could disassemble a game and recover a key?
but legally would mod chips have the dmca on our butts?
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#140647 - NeX - Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:08 pm
Or perhaps the YMCA?
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#140651 - sonny_jim - Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:01 pm
The problem with newer consoles isn't just the fact that the encryption routines are harder, the fact that most consoles nowadays 'automagically' update themselves via games and the Internet makes it easier for people like Nintendo and Sony to close down exploit holes.
It's almost as if we don't own the hardware we buy anymore :-(
#140674 - meshounah - Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:05 am
gcdev.com is up so that is a plus
as for mod-chips:
have a modchip with an on board RAM stick load legit game disk into memory... have the modchip "hold" the status of the dvd drive so the firmware won't think the dvd was ejected. then swap the legit disk with a dvd containing the homebrew... then overwrite certain parts of the game in memory with the homebrew rom.
but of course we will have to find the encryption key
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#140796 - calcprogrammer1 - Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:49 pm
I just found a way to crash the Wii! In 3.0 firmware, if you have a Special (hacked Mii ID, gold pants) Mii, you can crash your system by trying to make him mingle. This crash may be a possible exploit.
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#140840 - meshounah - Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:50 am
| calcprogrammer1 wrote: |
| I just found a way to crash the Wii! In 3.0 firmware, if you have a Special (hacked Mii ID, gold pants) Mii, you can crash your system by trying to make him mingle. This crash may be a possible exploit. |
nice... lets ask chuck norris what he would do... hmmph.
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#140996 - Dood77 - Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:15 am
| calcprogrammer1 wrote: |
| I just found a way to crash the Wii! In 3.0 firmware, if you have a Special (hacked Mii ID, gold pants) Mii, you can crash your system by trying to make him mingle. This crash may be a possible exploit. |
Off to some other forum with more wii hackers you go! Make haste!
Okay, well, if the 'gold pants' hack has been tutorial'd on the internet, I'm sure someone has found this crash already... or have they? I've actually never heard of this mod, link?
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Original DS Phat obtained on day of release + flashme v7
Supercard: miniSD, Kingston 1GB, Kingston 2GB
Ralink chipset PCI NIC
#141074 - calcprogrammer1 - Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:12 pm
I know the gold pants mod has been out for a while, I made a youtube video of it (http://www.youtube.com/calcprogrammer1). I've never heard of the possibility of an exploit by crashing the system using a gold Mii. It never did this in 2.0/2.1 firmwares, but after I updated to 3.0U, I can't set a gold Mii to mingle, and when I try to, the Wii crashes and I have to turn it off by holding the Power button.
If you know where this information might be useful, take it to them. To try it yourself, you'll need a Bluetooth adapter so you can edit your Miis with, just follow my video if you don't know how to do this.
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#141644 - HyperHacker - Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:22 pm
Does anyone know if the shop channel loads flash? That might be more vulnerable than the real browser. (That, and due to a screwup, I don't have the browser, and to get it would probably require updating. <_<)
| meshounah wrote: |
| is that datel drivedoctor any use? |
It's an overpriced commercially packaged version of something you can do with half a printer cable.
| Dood77 wrote: |
| I've been wondering where the heck "hello, world" on Wii is for awhile now. It's obviously been an extremely popular console, so why hasn't anyone done the hacking? Why don't current mod chips support running unsigned code? Is it that hard to implement when you're adding your own custom hardware? |
It really doesn't seem like anyone's trying. I don't know why. >_> Modchips don't because they don't have to. I'm hoping to see some anti-modchip routines in future games, then they'll have to patch the games to remove them.
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#141965 - zzo38computer - Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:03 pm
| HyperHacker wrote: |
| It's an overpriced commercially packaged version of something you can do with half a printer cable. |
I actually have half of a printer cable sitting on top of my computer case (I soldered 2 LEDs to it), it doesn't work with my computer though, there is something wrong with the parallel port on my computer.
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#143277 - meshounah - Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:03 am
surely you could dump the firmware?
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#143283 - Dood77 - Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:37 am
| HyperHacker wrote: |
| Dood77 wrote: | | I've been wondering where the heck "hello, world" on Wii is for awhile now. It's obviously been an extremely popular console, so why hasn't anyone done the hacking? Why don't current mod chips support running unsigned code? Is it that hard to implement when you're adding your own custom hardware? |
It really doesn't seem like anyone's trying. I don't know why. >_> Modchips don't because they don't have to. I'm hoping to see some anti-modchip routines in future games, then they'll have to patch the games to remove them. |
Things like this make me bang my head at my complete lack of 1337 haxing skillz.
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Original DS Phat obtained on day of release + flashme v7
Supercard: miniSD, Kingston 1GB, Kingston 2GB
Ralink chipset PCI NIC
#143348 - tepples - Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:19 pm
| meshounah wrote: |
| surely you could dump the firmware? |
Not if we don't know how it's encrypted.
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#143906 - HyperHacker - Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:27 am
There's a flash dump floating around, dumped directly from the chip, but being encrypted it's of little use.
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#147520 - Rajveer - Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:12 am
#147521 - Lazy1 - Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:46 am
http://forums.maxconsole.net/showpost.php?p=802238&postcount=26
So yeah... fake.
Weird how there hasn't been a hello world yet, the wii has been out for quit a while.
I doubt we'll see any homebrew on the wii for at least a few more years, maybe even not at all.
#147834 - Rajveer - Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:16 pm
| Lazy1 wrote: |
| I doubt we'll see any homebrew on the wii for at least a few more years, maybe even not at all. |
Hopefully not http://wiinintendo.net/2007/12/28/the-wii-officially-hacked/
*Hopes this doesn't turn out to be fake too so he doesn't look like an idiot*
#149079 - JohnQ - Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:18 pm
O_O looks real!
i really hope they where not stupid enuff to fake it in real-life infront of a big frigging audience!
#151264 - Rajveer - Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:30 am
So now that the Wii has been hacked thanks to Twilight Princess and there have been some early demos such as Tetris, are people excited about the future of Wii homebrew? Will anybody here be developing Wii apps and games in the future?
#151284 - tepples - Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:14 pm
| Rajveer wrote: |
| So now that the Wii has been hacked thanks to Twilight Princess and there have been some early demos such as Tetris |
Google finds this video, which says it's "a Wii port of the GameCube version of Tetris". But I didn't see any infinite spin. :-)
| Quote: |
| are people excited about the future of Wii homebrew? |
Only if a hack can 1. persist across multiple versions of the Wii firmware (unlike the PSP hacks based on GTA and Lumines, which got blocked) and 2. coexist on the same machine with Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection (unlike Xbox hacks, which result in the Live banhammer).
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#151287 - Kyoufu Kawa - Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:37 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| Google finds this video, which says it's "a Wii port of the GameCube version of Tetris". But I didn't see any infinite spin |
"Here we are, this is a Wii port of the Gamecube version of Tetris I wrote some years ago..."
I guess somebody misunderstood him.
#151366 - Rajveer - Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:52 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| Only if a hack can 1. persist across multiple versions of the Wii firmware (unlike the PSP hacks based on GTA and Lumines, which got blocked) and 2. coexist on the same machine with Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection (unlike Xbox hacks, which result in the Live banhammer). |
The second point is what I'm afraid of, I could see Nintendo taking a Microsoft approach and checking systems via the internet. Wii homebrew is exciting though, I'd love to see what homebrew developers could come up with using the controller.
| Kyoufu Kawa wrote: |
| I guess somebody misunderstood him. |
It's actually running in Wii mode modified to use Wii registers, and recompiled for the Wii, unlike GC mode which would have worked without the need for recompilation. I guess somebody else misunderstood.
#151416 - Kyoufu Kawa - Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:23 pm
No, I didn't. Tep said the GC version of Tetris, which apparently has infinite spin. The game seen is a GC Tetris, ported to the Wii.
#151418 - simonjhall - Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:01 pm
I've had a go with the zelda save exploit and I'm quite impressed. I'm always quite stunned how once people can crash a game can somehow blindly feel out the innards of a machine and get something on the screen! There's just SO much stuff you have to do before you can get something recognisable on the screen it just seems impossible! If these people did it all without any commerical SDK then big kudos to them.
I always wonder with the gamecube how the first people got homebrew running on that with just a single light for debug... They must have had confidential info, right?
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#151419 - tepples - Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:11 pm
| Kyoufu Kawa wrote: |
| Tep said the GC version of Tetris, which apparently has infinite spin. The game seen is a GC Tetris, ported to the Wii. |
I'm not putting down the accomplishment of getting a homebrew tetromino game to run on the Wii. I just don't think such a proof of concept can be called the T-word. I guess I'm just the type to say "get a tissue" rather than "get a Kleenex" in a Puffs household.
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#151424 - Rajveer - Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:17 am
| Kyoufu Kawa wrote: |
| No, I didn't. Tep said the GC version of Tetris, which apparently has infinite spin. The game seen is a GC Tetris, ported to the Wii. |
Ha, looks like I'm the one who misunderstood!
| simonjhall wrote: |
| If these people did it all without any commerical SDK then big kudos to them. |
In the video I think the guy said he modified a version of libogc cvs, that's hardcore to me :S
Tepples, I never realised that the infinite spin trick actually had a name, or even a website, I remember using that trick to check what was coming next and where to place it on the faster settings on my Gameboy :D
#151430 - Lazy1 - Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:10 am
Wii homebrew seems to be growing really fast, tons of respect go out to those who hacked it.
Any bets on how long till Quake3?
#151665 - zzo38computer - Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:34 am
You could make a extra chip to backup/restore of multiple firmware versions at once, in case it is blocked later. Datel made region free disc for Wii but it was blocked in firmware upgrade very soon. If they can decrypt the RAM, then you can make the RAM modified while it is running by adding a extra chip in front of RAM. The other thing you could do is to fake the version number of Wii firmware so that it won't upgrade by the disc. You can write your own firmware program, that it will fake the official one and switch memory using chip, so that it cannot be blocked or detected. Also make every copy of the disc different so that it is harder to blacklist.
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#151675 - yellowstar - Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:38 am
Is it possible to put the Wii system/IOS into back into a glitched-RSA state?(When Nintendo fixes the bug)
So we could run our homebrew channels, discs, ect. after a return to the Wii Menu?(Not with a custom firmware and such, but by running some Wii HB)
EDIT:
Never mind, this was answered elsewhere.
#153508 - yellowstar - Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:43 am
Continuing the discussion from the other Wii topic...
(The following isn't really related to the discussion in the other topic however)
YouTube video showing the Wii Remote being used in Wii Homebrew. That says the Bluetooth adapter in the Wii uses USB internally, and since they got Wii USB figured out, they can use the Wiimote.(I haven't seen this linked to anywhere before...)
I checked libogc CVS today, and there's code in there for USB, just not Bluetooth.