#163664 - sgeos - Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:51 am
How do you feel about the DSi?
So far, the negatives seem to be:
No GBA / expansion slot.
Lower battery life.
Regional lock out.
#163672 - gauauu - Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:41 pm
Where's the option for "Why don't we wait and see what it's REALLY like"...?
#163675 - sgeos - Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:50 pm
| gauauu wrote: |
| Where's the option for "Why don't we wait and see what it's REALLY like"...? |
A neutral answer was intentionally omitted.
The following two answers are equivalent to "Why don't we wait and see what it's REALLY like":
It looks interesting. I might get one sooner or later.
I'm unimpressed. The new "features" do not bode well.
One is positive and one is negative.
Neither answer precludes a purchase or failure to purchase a DSi unit.
#163682 - silent_code - Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:37 pm
I voted option 3. :^)
_________________
July 5th 08: "Volumetric Shadow Demo" 1.6.0 (final) source released
June 5th 08: "Zombie NDS" WIP released!
It's all on my page, just click WWW below.
#163683 - GoopyMonkey - Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:29 pm
I'll probably end up getting one, but keeping my Phat DS for GBA gaming; I can't bear to go without Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories.
I do, however, think that homebrew will be a bit easier and more convenient than having to use my blocky GBAMP, although Nintendo could go down the PSP route and release firmware updates to stop such features working.
4 or 5 hours of battery life at maximum brightness seems very, very short by Nintendo's, or probably most other handhelds' standards. However, only being able to use maximum brightness by opening MoonShell, I'm quite used to having the medium setting.
(Off-topic: Does anyone know a way to boot a DS game into maximum brightness on an original DS?)
Region locking is one of the things I don't understand in the gaming industry. Why force a console to only play games from that region? I understand that most games I know are released in Japan, USA and the UK and they companies need to make a profit from each release, but say a game was only released in Japan; Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix+, for instance. If people could play it in the US or the UK on their consoles, yet it was only released in Japan, they would make more money from people importing it, plus people wouldn't need to resort to modchips or other methods that are widely used in piracy.
But after that rant, I'm hoping that Nintendo doesn't abandon the DS for some time. Not everyone needs a camera in their handheld.
_________________
My favourite DS apps:
GBAMP Multiboot
Colors!
jEnesis
#163684 - nanou - Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:39 pm
| GoopyMonkey wrote: |
| Region locking is one of the things I don't understand in the gaming industry. Why force a console to only play games from that region? |
There are a few reasons, an obvious one being that games (and other media) are published or distributed differently in different regions, and often by different parties, who often benefit from the security of "owning" their region.
The good news is that region locking doesn't affect carts, only DSi-specific software. Nintendo could be doing this out of practical concerns, so that you only have access to software that is localized for your region which would be very difficult (for Nintendo) to manage otherwise, never mind that releases are staggered across regions for good reason.
There's nothing to suggest that region locking is to benefit the publisher (excepting perhaps convenience), so it's very likely to be a wholly practical affair, and probably won't be as bad as we've seen with other devices. Hopefully, they'll permit some number of region changes, perhaps even unlimited--where's the harm in that, with respect to their stated reasons?
_________________
- nanou
#163686 - sgeos - Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:34 pm
| nanou wrote: |
| There's nothing to suggest that region locking is to benefit the publisher (excepting perhaps convenience), |
As you stated above, the same game can be published in different regions by different parties. Even if they are published by the same party, regional lock out allows them to play the price descrimination game. Nintendo may well charge a licensing fee for each region as well. Mananging various rating systems is easier if you split the world into regions.
| Quote: |
| Hopefully, they'll permit some number of region changes, perhaps even unlimited--where's the harm in that, with respect to their stated reasons? |
In theory region changes could allow publishers to circumvent licensing fees if they allow enough units to leak around the world. Based on that alone I could see enforced region locking even if it is ultimately pointless.
-Brendan
#163689 - nanou - Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:13 am
| sgeos wrote: |
| nanou wrote: | | There's nothing to suggest that region locking is to benefit the publisher (excepting perhaps convenience), |
As you stated above, the same game can be published in different regions by different parties. Even if they are published by the same party, regional lock out allows them to play the price descrimination game. |
I have to give you that, but I meant that it there was nothing to suggest it was designed for this purpose. It seems kind of petty in comparison to card sales, which online distribution is not supposed to interfere with. But you're right, it certainly could be used for price discrimination.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | Hopefully, they'll permit some number of region changes, perhaps even unlimited--where's the harm in that, with respect to their stated reasons? |
In theory region changes could allow publishers to circumvent licensing fees if they allow enough units to leak around the world. Based on that alone I could see enforced region locking even if it is ultimately pointless. |
I'm not sure I follow this one. Is it likely a publisher would rely on people to alter their region to make a purchase? Is the far reduced store visibility in a perfectly profitable region worth the risk? I think it's only advantageous to the consumer, who knows s/he wants something that's only available in another region because it wouldn't sell in their domestic region.
But that was wishful speculation. It's hard to hope for unlimited region changes without precedent. I'm still hoping for at least a small number of region changes, which is fairly common.
_________________
- nanou
#163691 - Rajveer - Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:30 am
It's been confirmed that the DSi will have more RAM than the current DSes (since Opera is integrated). Hopefully there will be other hardware changes too which will be utilised in DSi specific software, otherwise I don't see the justification in buying the same hardware with cameras attached.
#163694 - no2pencil - Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:13 am
It'll kill the market for DS repar :(
& the lack fo a GBA port will keep me from forking over for one.
_________________
-#2pencil
#163697 - DensitY - Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:41 am
DSi looks interesting to me although I'm not going to go out of my way to buy one, frankly there isn't really enough new to warrant it. As homebrewing will be initially off limits (I'm sure DSi will have some nice new measures that'll stop piracy which is good but it'll hurt us tinkers) I have no real drive to get it on release.
#163700 - sgeos - Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:07 am
| nanou wrote: |
| I'm not sure I follow this one. Is it likely a publisher would rely on people to alter their region to make a purchase? |
Not for any great number of units, but given the option someone might do it.
| nanou wrote: |
| Is the far reduced store visibility in a perfectly profitable region worth the risk? |
That depends on how many units you expect to sell in a particular region. If you only project 3,000 units but can localize more or less for free, I suspect letting units leak into that region would be a working solution for a publisher.
| nanou wrote: |
| I think it's only advantageous to the consumer, who knows s/he wants something that's only available in another region because it wouldn't sell in their domestic region. |
The short answer is "correct", but the long answer involves addressing the reasons why regional small unit runs are not economical for publishers.
| Quote: |
| But that was wishful speculation. It's hard to hope for unlimited region changes without precedent. I'm still hoping for at least a small number of region changes, which is fairly common. |
Based on my understanding of the problem, the gatekeepers are the ones who collect off region locking, not the publishers. The gatekeepers (Nintendo in this case) may opt for regional lockouts if for no other reason than that it provides a (flase?) sense of security and control.
#163732 - nanou - Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:08 pm
| sgeos wrote: |
| nanou wrote: | | Is the far reduced store visibility in a perfectly profitable region worth the risk? |
That depends on how many units you expect to sell in a particular region. If you only project 3,000 units but can localize more or less for free, I suspect letting units leak into that region would be a working solution for a publisher. |
This is where our expectations differ. I doubt a significant number products can be localized for an insignificant cost, but it's beside the point. If there's not enough demand to afford the additional licensing in the first place then it's really no advantage to Nintendo to prevent the people who really want it from getting it outside of the region.
I think you expect that the licensing cost is high enough to tempt a publisher to reduce visibility on a product they'd otherwise be willing to pay licensing for. It's reasonable and entirely possible, but I very much doubt it. I don't really doubt that Nintendo would go for a total lockout on that possibility, though--not that I'm sold on the idea that they would.
| Quote: |
| nanou wrote: | | I think it's only advantageous to the consumer, who knows s/he wants something that's only available in another region because it wouldn't sell in their domestic region. |
The short answer is "correct", but the long answer involves addressing the reasons why regional small unit runs are not economical for publishers. |
Supposing so, but this still goes back to the fact that for all of those same reasons, the publisher wouldn't purchase licensing for that region if it's not profitable. Even if they sell outside their region by cheating, I think we can assume that Nintendo gets some profit on the points used in the sale. The way I see it, it profits the publisher with a sale, Nintendo with their cut of 'points' but nothing from licensing, which wouldn't have been purchased if necessary to make the sale.
_________________
- nanou
#163735 - tepples - Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:09 am
| GoopyMonkey wrote: |
| Region locking is one of the things I don't understand in the gaming industry. Why force a console to only play games from that region? |
A game based on a book is a derivative work of that book. A book might be copyrighted in one market but public domain in another. The U.S. copyright in Peter and Wendy, a 1911 novel by J.M. Barrie starring Peter Pan and the Darling kids, expired forty years before the E.U. copyright. Great Ormond Street Hospital, the heir to Barrie's copyrights, collected royalties for all derivatives in markets where the copyright subsisted (until a few months ago in life+70 countries), and in fact it still collects royalties in the United Kingdom. But copies in the United States (publication+56 at the time of expiry) and Canada (life+50) were no longer subject to a royalty or to GOSH's editorial control. Region coding makes sure that copies without censorship and royalties don't get sold where censorship and royalties are required.
| Quote: |
| But after that rant, I'm hoping that Nintendo doesn't abandon the DS for some time. Not everyone needs a camera in their handheld. |
And not everiione needs an acceleromiiter and an iinfrared position camera in their console controller iither. Wii understand.
[/irony]
| nanou wrote: |
| The good news is that region locking doesn't affect carts, only DSi-specific software. |
Until DSi-specific carts start coming out.
| sgeos wrote: |
| Mananging various rating systems is easier if you split the world into regions. |
Couldn't it use generic year-based rating for foreign games? For example, an AU/NZ unit might show "6+" for E, "10+" for E10+, "13+" for T, and "17+" for M.
| nanou wrote: |
| I doubt a significant number products can be localized for an insignificant cost |
Ireland and the United States speak mutually intelligible languages, closer even than Spanish and Portuguese. So do France and a third of Canada.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#163739 - sgeos - Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:08 am
| nanou wrote: |
| This is where our expectations differ. I doubt a significant number products can be localized for an insignificant cost, but it's beside the point. |
I agree. Localizations for an insignificant cost are special cases, however I suspect that in most cases the final decision to localize is tactical and not strategic in nature.
| nanou wrote: |
| If there's not enough demand to afford the additional licensing in the first place then it's really no advantage to Nintendo to prevent the people who really want it from getting it outside of the region. |
If 40% of your market bought the Martian version of your game, springing for a full blown localization to satisfy the remaining 60% of the demand may be too expensive to be worth your while. Nintendo would like to see you spring for the full blown localization because they sell more total carts, and they collect licensing fees.
| nanou wrote: |
| I think you expect that the licensing cost is high enough to tempt a publisher to reduce visibility on a product they'd otherwise be willing to pay licensing for. It's reasonable and entirely possible, but I very much doubt it. |
It would be a tactical decision. Consider a case where a Canadian company makes a game that is partially funded by a government grant. The grant stipulates that the game must be in both French and English. The game is French enough to have mass appeal in France, and it is already localized. What happens next depends on the people involved, but here are a couple possible scenarios:
NO LOCKOUT- The game gets wonderful reviews and everyone in France imports it. The publisher assumes there is no more demand in Europe. Nintendo ends up selling extra carts to the Canadian publisher that get exported to France.
WITH LOCKOUT- The game gets wonderful reviews and everyone in France wants a copy. The publisher assumes there is huge demand in Europe, pays for a full European localizaton and sells the product in Europe. Nintendo collects licensing fees and sells carts not only in France, but also all over Europe.
In this case, lockout clearly turned a profit.
| tepples wrote: |
| sgeos wrote: | | Mananging various rating systems is easier if you split the world into regions. |
Couldn't it use generic year-based rating for foreign games? For example, an AU/NZ unit might show "6+" for E, "10+" for E10+, "13+" for T, and "17+" for M. |
I don't see all the governments involved getting along. Do we need a banned in Germany icon?
| tepples wrote: |
| nanou wrote: | | I doubt a significant number products can be localized for an insignificant cost |
Ireland and the United States speak mutually intelligible languages, closer even than Spanish and Portuguese. So do France and a third of Canada. |
To the best of my knowledge, Australia, England and the USA are all in different regions.
#163744 - nanou - Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:20 am
| tepples wrote: |
| nanou wrote: | | The good news is that region locking doesn't affect carts, only DSi-specific software. |
Until DSi-specific carts start coming out. |
Nintendo is apparently trying to suggest that this won't happen, but without committing to it.
| tepples wrote: |
| sgeos wrote: | | Mananging various rating systems is easier if you split the world into regions. |
Couldn't it use generic year-based rating for foreign games? For example, an AU/NZ unit might show "6+" for E, "10+" for E10+, "13+" for T, and "17+" for M. |
It might be irrelevant, because I can't release my game for a region until it's rated by the applicable standards bodies. Since standards bodies are willing to take each others say-so, they still need to be re-rated. Plus, do you want to hold back your release until all the ratings are negotiated, accommodated and assigned?
| tepples wrote: |
| Ireland and the United States speak mutually intelligible languages, closer even than Spanish and Portuguese. So do France and a third of Canada. |
Mutually intelligible sure, but moving from (say) US to UK means every word with a z or o in the final syllable is probably misspelled, and a good deal of nouns need of replacing. Canadian french is considered pretty terrible, but I'm not sure whether that would be reflected in the written language.
| sgeos wrote: |
| nanou wrote: | | If there's not enough demand to afford the additional licensing in the first place then it's really no advantage to Nintendo to prevent the people who really want it from getting it outside of the region. |
If 40% of your market bought the Martian version of your game, springing for a full blown localization to satisfy the remaining 60% of the demand may be too expensive to be worth your while. Nintendo would like to see you spring for the full blown localization because they sell more total carts, and they collect licensing fees. |
I would agree, but when 60% of the demand of a region is more than a licensing fee, I somehow doubt that the additional 40% makes a difference. Even when it does, how can you expect that 40% to go through all the hoops involved? If I were the publisher, I'd have to purchase the licensing rather than bet that such a large proportion is going to buy the software in a region that offers zero visibility for it.
| sgeos wrote: |
| nanou wrote: | | I think you expect that the licensing cost is high enough to tempt a publisher to reduce visibility on a product they'd otherwise be willing to pay licensing for. It's reasonable and entirely possible, but I very much doubt it. |
It would be a tactical decision. Consider a case where a Canadian company makes a game that is partially funded by a government grant. The grant stipulates that the game must be in both French and English. The game is French enough to have mass appeal in France, and it is already localized. What happens next depends on the people involved, but here are a couple possible scenarios:
NO LOCKOUT- The game gets wonderful reviews and everyone in France imports it. The publisher assumes there is no more demand in Europe. Nintendo ends up selling extra carts to the Canadian publisher that get exported to France.
WITH LOCKOUT- The game gets wonderful reviews and everyone in France wants a copy. The publisher assumes there is huge demand in Europe, pays for a full European localizaton and sells the product in Europe. Nintendo collects licensing fees and sells carts not only in France, but also all over Europe.
In this case, lockout clearly turned a profit. |
This specific example is asymmetric--in the first instance the publisher is assuming there's generally no further interest in Europe, while in the second they're assuming there is. That should be enough to make the difference, and lockout is irrelevant (especially considering the fact that the French consider Canadian French to be rather bad.)
Plus, with EA accreting whatever they can, trends are toward companies which just about every case is strategic rather than tactical.
_________________
- nanou
#163751 - tepples - Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:39 am
| nanou wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | sgeos wrote: | | Mananging various rating systems is easier if you split the world into regions. |
Couldn't it use generic year-based rating for foreign games? For example, an AU/NZ unit might show "6+" for E, "10+" for E10+, "13+" for T, and "17+" for M. |
It might be irrelevant, because I can't release my game for a region until it's rated by the applicable standards bodies. |
But representing each rating with an age would still allow the spirit of the rating system to follow along with the export in a regime without regional lockout.
| Quote: |
| but moving from (say) US to UK means every word with a z or o in the final syllable is probably misspelled, and a good deal of nouns need of replacing. |
If your game isn't a sprawling RPG, that's largely a search and replace. If it is, you need to represent the dialects in various towns with patterns of creative misspellings anyway. "Meesa Jar-Jar Binks" anyone?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#163768 - sgeos - Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:00 pm
| nanou wrote: |
| I would agree, but when 60% of the demand of a region is more than a licensing fee, I somehow doubt that the additional 40% makes a difference. |
Nintendo cares about maximizing revenue, in this case by collecting license fees and manufacturing royalties. It (almost) always makes sense for Nintendo to try to extort more licenses and push higher unit volumes.
Publishers do not care about licensing fees, but rather their total expenses. These include licensing, development/localization, marketing, production, distribution and anything else that involves spending money. It only makes sense for a publisher to release a game if the cost of all the (remaining) above expenses are less than the projected revenues, and they do think they could achieve higher revenues by putting that money into something else. This is not always cut and dry.
| Quote: |
| Even when it does, how can you expect that 40% to go through all the hoops involved? |
What hoops?
| Quote: |
| If I were the publisher, I'd have to purchase the licensing rather than bet that such a large proportion is going to buy the software in a region that offers zero visibility for it. |
Things are not always that simple. Shelling out for all of the above expenses in additon to licensing may net you, as a publisher, less revenue than investing in a new title. In that case, encouraging region bleeding increases your revenue because you don't have to shell out all of the above and you still get to make the better investment. Will you sell less units of the first title? Yes. Will you make less money? No, because you have better investments at the time.
As for zero visibility- anything released in the English speaking world is visable to the rest of the English speaking world. I speak Japanese and I pay attention to both the English speaking and Japanese market regardless of where I live.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | NO LOCKOUT- The game gets wonderful reviews and everyone in France imports it. The publisher assumes there is no more demand in Europe. Nintendo ends up selling extra carts to the Canadian publisher that get exported to France.
WITH LOCKOUT- The game gets wonderful reviews and everyone in France wants a copy. The publisher assumes there is huge demand in Europe, pays for a full European localizaton and sells the product in Europe. Nintendo collects licensing fees and sells carts not only in France, but also all over Europe.
In this case, lockout clearly turned a profit. |
This specific example is asymmetric--in the first instance the publisher is assuming there's generally no further interest in Europe, while in the second they're assuming there is. |
France is located in Europe. The more unsold units there are in Europe, the more you have an opportunity to sell. This publisher is heavily weighting the number of units they can sell in France when considering a European release. I don't anything inconsistent.
| Quote: |
| Plus, with EA accreting whatever they can, trends are toward companies which just about every case is strategic rather than tactical. |
I'm sure EA has a release strategy, but I doubt it is "we localize and release everything everywhere". Even if it is close to that, there are other publishers out there with other strategies. Nintendo, for example, looks the sale figures in Japan before deciding on foreign releases. Nintendo also looks at whether they want their staff working on localizations or original titles and factors this into their decison. Everything is case by case.
#163780 - nanou - Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:32 am
| tepples wrote: |
| But representing each rating with an age would still allow the spirit of the rating system to follow along with the export in a regime without regional lockout. |
Unfortunately that doesn't solve any actual problems. Participating in the spirit isn't sufficient. I agree with you that it would be very nice, but I just don't see it happening when a violent game and a sexy game might trade ratings when crossing the pond. Some ratings have qualitative components, which I think is a step in the right direction.
| sgeos wrote: |
Publishers do not care about licensing fees, but rather their total expenses. These include licensing, development/localization, marketing, production, distribution and anything else that involves spending money. It only makes sense for a publisher to release a game if the cost of all the (remaining) above expenses are less than the projected revenues, and they do think they could achieve higher revenues by putting that money into something else. This is not always cut and dry.
...
| Quote: | | Even when it does, how can you expect that 40% to go through all the hoops involved? |
What hoops? |
The ones above -- if you have multiple sources of expense, then the licensing fee is a certain percentage of all of your expenses to be recouped by sales. Who would not go from 40% coverage to 100% when it only asks for doubling a component of the expense involved in reaching that region at all? I'm saying that if just a part of your expense is not worth doubling to more than double your coverage, then your interest in that region is probably so low that you'd never consider paying a license fee to enter it even if it were strictly mandatory.
Put another way--if 60% of potential sales is less than the licensing fee, who is going to buy the license under any circumstances?
| Quote: |
| As for zero visibility- anything released in the English speaking world is visable to the rest of the English speaking world. I speak Japanese and I pay attention to both the English speaking and Japanese market regardless of where I live. |
But I'm talking about marketing to a small extent and, very specifically, visibility in the online store. In the specific case there's literally zero cross visibility into regions where the software isn't published.
With physical media sales the situation has significant differences. I'm not too concerned with these. Just for clarification, I'm not trying to argue anything about physical media, so where my arguments apply there is coincidence.
| Quote: |
| France is located in Europe. The more unsold units there are in Europe, the more you have an opportunity to sell. This publisher is heavily weighting the number of units they can sell in France when considering a European release. I don't anything inconsistent. |
I'll include only the relevant parts:
| Quote: |
NO LOCKOUT- The publisher assumes there is no more demand in Europe.
WITH LOCKOUT- The publisher assumes there is huge demand in Europe, ...
In this case, lockout clearly turned a profit. |
You've made different assumptions in each case that are independent of lockout. In that sense, it says nothing about the involvement about lockout, since it's quite obvious that lockout has nothing to do with what the publisher does.
| Quote: |
| Plus, with EA accreting whatever they can, trends are toward companies which just about every case is strategic rather than tactical. |
I'm sure EA has a release strategy, but I doubt it is "we localize and release everything everywhere". Even if it is close to that, there are other publishers out there with other strategies. Nintendo, for example, looks the sale figures in Japan before deciding on foreign releases. Nintendo also looks at whether they want their staff working on localizations or original titles and factors this into their decison. Everything is case by case.[/quote]
But this is still strategic. Even though the exact decision is made late, all the criteria is laid out in advance. I'm afraid we'll be splitting hairs and burning dictionaries soon, though. I'm not too worried about this point really, but I'm happy with the fact that the big producers usually have a good idea of which products will cross regions in advance. Capcom, for example, often reacts more slowly than you describe, by producing a series and seeing how the previous part of the series does in a region before deciding whether to continue with it in that region.
_________________
- nanou
#163796 - sgeos - Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:05 am
| nanou wrote: |
| I'm afraid we'll be splitting hairs and burning dictionaries soon, though. |
I think we already are. I suspect that if we were to hash this out over 20 pages, we would realize that we basically agree on all major points. I don't care to do that, but if you want me to clarify anything specific I will.
#163798 - zzo38computer - Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:19 am
One thing about region locking (or even just region coding without the device locking it out) is that some game I might want, mahjong game, or tsume shogi game, are only in Japan and they won't sell it anywhere else.
I probably won't get DSi anyways, DSi has many things I don't like.
_________________
Important: Please send messages about FWNITRO to the public forum, not privately to me.
#163865 - lord_hardware - Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:54 pm
What i want to know is if the SD slot supports SDHC... if so then my SD-IDE adapter will come in handy ;)
if it will support all old carts then all of our slot-1 flash cards should theoretically still work fine.
_________________
NDSL: M3Real, EZ4 Lite Deluxe, 2x Kingston 1GB Micro SD, 1x Kingston 4GB Micro HCSD 1x Kingston 8GB Micro HCSD
#163868 - zzo38computer - Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:34 am
| lord_hardware wrote: |
| if it will support all old carts then all of our slot-1 flash cards should theoretically still work fine. |
It won't work if they blacklist it.
_________________
Important: Please send messages about FWNITRO to the public forum, not privately to me.
#163873 - nanou - Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:36 am
| sgeos wrote: |
| nanou wrote: | | I'm afraid we'll be splitting hairs and burning dictionaries soon, though. |
I think we already are. I suspect that if we were to hash this out over 20 pages, we would realize that we basically agree on all major points. I don't care to do that, but if you want me to clarify anything specific I will. |
I think you're right. It's mostly idle, but my driving motivation has been that there's a lot of pessimism, but when you think about it the situation has some subtleties that can support a kind of optimism. I think we will have an easier time of it than common opinion holds.
_________________
- nanou
#163888 - sgeos - Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:49 pm
| nanou wrote: |
| ... my driving motivation has been that there's a lot of pessimism, but when you think about it the situation has some subtleties that can support a kind of optimism. I think we will have an easier time of it than common opinion holds. |
I like some of the features, but as they say, "the devil is in the details". We don't know exactly what it can and can not do yet.
#164460 - misterDtD - Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:26 am
I don't plan to get one until we can 'brew on it. Unless the media player is really nice. (Because I use my DS as my primary MP3 player)
~DtD