#167601 - the-anonymous-coward - Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:38 pm
Start here: http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/DS/DSi/news.asp?c=12224
So, what do you guys think? I am somewhat interested and excited to see what happens. Do you guys think it is likely that Nintendo will ever open up development of DSi apps for independent developers to release their software in the way Apple has with the iPhone? Due to how Nintendo seems to handle things like this, I personally doubt it, but a man can dream.
#167610 - josath - Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:17 am
I would be very surprised if it were at all different from the wiiware process, which there is a good summary here:
http://bigredpimp.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/wiiware-information/
#167611 - sgeos - Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:26 am
As I understand it, if you want to make apps for the iPhone, you buy a mac, download the SDK, make your app, submit it to Apple's black box of approval, and if all goes well you have the opportunity to give apple a 30% cut of sales at their app store. I suspect Nintendo is even more draconic.
Google's Android Market, on the otherhand, you just register, upload, and you are ready to go.
EDIT: Evidently the apps for Android are written in Java.
#167625 - nanou - Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:47 pm
At least Nintendo doesn't make you buy a Mac /tongue-in-cheek
Anyway, it's certainly looking like the process is similar to the WiiWare process, from... things... I've heard. I do wish they'd make it into a more open market for developers, at least as open as Apple has (despite all the complaining I can do about the way Apple does things.)
BRP's article (unsurprisingly) doesn't go into the proportion of licensing costs or anything like that. I'd like to see them make DSiWare more attractive for developers than paying for carts. Any indy dev blog about a DS title will make some mention about how surprisingly expensive the carts are.
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#167627 - the-anonymous-coward - Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:08 pm
Yeah, Apple is far from perfect. Love my iPod but don't own a Mac (not that I think they are horrible but I'm not a rich man; plus XP is pretty nice in my opinion (though I spit in the direction of Vista)). My phone is a Blackberry Storm, but that has a lot to do with my provider being Verizon. I may write some apps for the Storm when that store comes out, but it uses java as well and I am not the biggest fan, though it has its uses. As far as a DSiWare type setup from Nintendo goes, I'm just interested to see where they go with the idea. Wonder if it will make me want to buy a DSi . . .
#167628 - nanou - Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:36 am
If homebrew gets working in native DSi mode, you'll want one. A few people have hinted at unexpected awesome coming from that direction, and I've got an idea myself.
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#167647 - albinofrenchy - Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:13 am
| Quote: |
| If homebrew gets working in native DSi mode, you'll want one. A few people have hinted at unexpected awesome coming from that direction, and I've got an idea myself. |
I really really would like you to elaborate on this. First off, what do you mean native DSi mode?
#167648 - DiscoStew - Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:31 am
DSi mode contains access to the cameras, more RAM, better audio, and all that good stuff. The regular DS mode is everything we are currently working with atm.
Think of it like how the DS contains the modes for both DS mode and GBA mode, but with this, it will be DSi mode and DS mode.
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#167728 - nanou - Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:10 pm
@albinofrenchy, DiscoStew has it right. As for the other part, I think surprises are nice.
Today I found confirmation that GBA games will be available from the DSi store. http://ds.kombo.com/article.php?artid=7007. Not a direct source, but it seems to come from the official DSi event.
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#167729 - DiscoStew - Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:29 pm
Interesting news. However, I was kinda hoping that they would have gone all out with a version of the Wii's VC for the DSi with titles from consoles that we believe can be ran on the portable (obviously the N64 is out of the question). Maybe they still will.
The fact that they announced being able to play GBA games on the DSi via SD card makes me wonder about what's under the hood. You think that the only thing removed from the DSi in terms of GBA hardware is just the slot for it? That perhaps the GBA mode still exists? And what about transfer rates on the SD slot? I have my doubts for GBA games to be running straight from them like a normal cartridge, and not being pre-loaded into the RAM (or into the flash memory). If pre-loaded into RAM (not flash memory), then I would assume that titles 15MB and under would only be allowed.
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#167731 - nanou - Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:29 am
Knowing Nintendo, the decision is a bid to see what catches on. In that sense, I would think that they didn't do any more damage than removing slot-2, but I suspect they probably didn't do too much to help besides the RAM, which I believe they needed anyway for other things.
I'm hoping we get a lot out of DSiWare, though (publicly) Nintendo's pushing smaller scale stuff from that direction (with the exception of the GB/C/A stuff... mixed messages.) I can't help but come back to the thought that DSiWare is an excellent escape from the cost of carts, and developers ought to like that. The SD slot is obviously SDHC, so it's not like storage is a real concern.
So who knows what Nintendo will do? I sometimes get frustrated when they don't do enough, but once in a while I remember that they do a lot of experimenting and some things simply never come to fruition.
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#167774 - ScottLininger - Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:06 am
| sgeos wrote: |
Google's Android Market, on the otherhand, you just register, upload, and you are ready to go.
EDIT: Evidently the apps for Android are written in Java. |
Heya Brendan,
Not to hijack the thread, but...
The Android SDK integrates nicely with the Eclipse java dev environment. I've been mucking with it and it's totally awesome, but I haven't actually published a game to the marketplace yet. Probably the biggest barrier to real development is getting the hardware, which costs something like $500 for a "carrier neutral" phone. (The SDK has a nice emulator, but we all know that hardware testing is the way to go...)
There is no approval barrier for the Google store, but it costs $25 or something to join, and then I've read (but not confirmed) that there's a 30% "processing fee", so if that's true then in that regard it's no better than Apple.
At the moment, there are way more iPhones than android phones, but analysts expect that to change in coming years. Personally, I think that there's an opportunity for small companies to get in on Android now, make a name for themselves while the market is young, and do well down the road, but I haven't yet heard any developer success stories like have been on the iPhone.
-Scott
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#168069 - silent_code - Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:44 pm
| Quote: |
| At least Nintendo doesn't make you buy a Mac |
Oh, they make you buy things. ;^)
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#168075 - sgeos - Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:10 am
| silent_code wrote: |
| Oh, they make you buy things. ;^) |
But not a Mac. Do Nintendo things even work with Macs?
| ScottLininger wrote: |
| The Android SDK integrates nicely with the Eclipse java dev environment. I've been mucking with it and it's totally awesome, but I haven't actually published a game to the marketplace yet. |
Yes, I downloaded the SDK and mucked around with it for a bit. My biggest gripe is that it is Java. I was hoping to tie Lua to a project. Not that there are not Java compatible scripting languages out there.
| ScottLininger wrote: |
| Probably the biggest barrier to real development is getting the hardware, which costs something like $500 for a "carrier neutral" phone. (The SDK has a nice emulator, but we all know that hardware testing is the way to go...) |
Hardware testing is the way to go, but you don't need the hardware right away. And price aside, the DSi and iPhone basically fall into the same basket.
| ScottLininger wrote: |
| There is no approval barrier for the Google store, |
The approval barrier could be a hassle to think about for a small outfit. I have read that it can take months for even simple applications to be approved. FWIW, Apple's approval provides the illusion of security for people who do not care to research before they buy.
| ScottLininger wrote: |
| but it costs $25 or something to join, |
I thought it was $25 per registered project, but I may be mistaken.
| ScottLininger wrote: |
| and then I've read (but not confirmed) that there's a 30% "processing fee", so if that's true then in that regard it's no better than Apple. |
I have also read this. Yes, the 30% is the same as Apple.
| ScottLininger wrote: |
| At the moment, there are way more iPhones than android phones, |
Apple was the first mover. If you are looking for an existing userbase, the iPhone is the place to be.
| ScottLininger wrote: |
| but analysts expect that to change in coming years. |
I agree with the analysts. If you are looking for pioneer advantage, Google is the place to be. Not only is Google huge with a corporate culture that encourages staying with the times, but I think Google's easy registration system is the correct way of doing things. I expect it to catch on. Who knows, maybe the price of hardware will go down eventually.
| ScottLininger wrote: |
| Personally, I think that there's an opportunity for small companies to get in on Android now, make a name for themselves while the market is young, and do well down the road, |
I agree. Up for another collaborative project?
#168117 - Quirky - Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:25 pm
| sgeos wrote: |
| Yes, I downloaded the SDK and mucked around with it for a bit. My biggest gripe is that it is Java. I was hoping to tie Lua to a project. Not that there are not Java compatible scripting languages out there. |
http://code.google.com/p/kahlua/
http://www.keplerproject.org/luajava/manual.html
The first one looks promising, as it is a native Java implementation - but says it is J2ME only. That may work in its favour if you can get it to compile on the not-really-Java Android. The second link by the looks of it uses native binary lua calls under the hood, so is probably a no-go.
#168129 - sgeos - Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:53 pm
| Quirky wrote: |
http://code.google.com/p/kahlua/
http://www.keplerproject.org/luajava/manual.html
The first one looks promising, as it is a native Java implementation - but says it is J2ME only. That may work in its favour if you can get it to compile on the not-really-Java Android. |
I missed this one. As I understand it, J2ME is a subset of the full Java environment, so it does look promising. Good find.
| Quirky wrote: |
| The second link by the looks of it uses native binary lua calls under the hood, so is probably a no-go. |
I found that one. The native app tool chain for the first phone is out, but I suspect that one may give up some portability by using it. Also, I'm not sure how one would go about accessing things like the GPS without going through the Java API.
EDIT: This is kind of fun.