#9203 - GBA Coda - Wed Jul 30, 2003 5:02 pm
Hi guys,
Do you think the GBA is dead? with a lot of GBA developers going down, is it worth the effort making demos/games on it ???
GBA Coda ( maybe not for long )
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#9210 - Lord Graga - Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:58 pm
Off course it is worth the effort! GBA rocks :D
If you think that the IRC channel is quiet, it's because we are working on our compo entries :)
GBA will be alive as long as I live, because I can't code anything else :D
#9225 - mtg101 - Thu Jul 31, 2003 12:50 am
I think the GBA will live on. For those of us of a certain age computers like the Amiga and SNES hold special memories. The GBA is the last thing around that's like those old machines - 2d acel'd gfx, tracker tunes, hw sprites, tile modes and so on.
The next generation of handheld consoles will be something completely different - just look at the PSP - 2.6GFlops vector engine, 3d hw gfx accel, 1.8 GB disks, MP3 music, 802.11 wireless!!!!?!?!?! The thing plays 2hrs of DVD quality video with 7.1 sound???
(full details: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/68/32068.html)
Drool if you like - but when you've got that sort of built-in power, it's beyond most of us who code the GBA for fun to code anything cool in a few evenings a week. So I imagine they'll be a group of us who keep playing with the GBA for a long time. I know I will - I want to make something as cool as the Amiga demo 'Jesus on Es' one day...
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#9252 - Lord Graga - Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:21 am
You'll bet I'll carry on until some other 2D platform is released (if it's a bit better than the GBA). Or maybe I'll just carry on, because I like this!
:P
LG
#9259 - niltsair - Thu Jul 31, 2003 2:34 pm
Yeah, from a gamer perpective, the Psp looks really great, but I doubt i could have gotten started in game programming on a 3D platforms. GBA is a hobbyist dream ;-)
#9260 - sgeos - Thu Jul 31, 2003 3:11 pm
| niltsair wrote: |
| Yeah, from a gamer perpective, the Psp looks really great, but I doubt i could have gotten started in game programming on a 3D platforms. GBA is a hobbyist dream ;-) |
Or a 2D gamer's dream. I dislike 3D games for the most part. I have an SNES (and an NES) in my room and the only current system I own that came out after it is the GBA. Looks like I'll need to move on to cell phones next...
-Brendan
#9261 - mtg101 - Thu Jul 31, 2003 3:16 pm
Unfortuantely phones are already heading down the 3D route... The processors in Symbian device (eg Nokia 7650) are already capable of doing 3D (if at a crap framerate due to the lack of access to the VSYNC notification...). And things like Nokia's N-Gage have 3D hardware.
Did nobody ever stop to think if 3D gfx were actually nedded on such small screens? All the 3D games I've seen on phones are technically clever, but terrible games. Give me 2D Zelda / Pokemon any day...
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#9379 - sgeos - Sun Aug 03, 2003 4:08 am
| mtg101 wrote: |
| Did nobody ever stop to think if 3D gfx were actually nedded on such small screens? All the 3D games I've seen on phones are technically clever, but terrible games. Give me 2D Zelda / Pokemon any day... |
I'm sad to hear that cell phones are heading down the 3D path. Clearly somebody needs to make some awe inspiring 2D games for cell phones. The better games will make money, if there is a market, that is.
-Brendan
#9382 - tepples - Sun Aug 03, 2003 4:44 am
I'm guessing that there are 213 games that need to be ported to the cellphones.
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#9399 - sgeos - Sun Aug 03, 2003 9:17 pm
What hardware specs and design limitations are we looking at for a cell phone? To start, how many pixels is the screen?
-Brendan
#9400 - sgeos - Sun Aug 03, 2003 9:41 pm
Neat. I couldn't find the "grid" that is mentioned in the FAQ... so much for instructions. =P It looks like the games use the arrow keys and mouse.
From what I've gathered, cell phones would also be great for high content games (as opped to special effects games).
-Brendan
#9745 - davidwilson - Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:03 pm
Let me tell you a little bit about the cell phone industry...
I'm an independent game developer, have been for some time now. I've been working with a mobile publisher from the UK for almost a year now. I've done 3 games and I'm in the process of a 4th one. From my experience, the mobile industry is not really ready yet for those who really want to write good games. It's possible, but it's much harder to do well while doing it. There are two main reasons for this:
1. The hardware on the cellphones SUCKS. The functionality of the game has to be pretty simplistic for it to run well. Also, you have severe restrictions in the amount of artwork you can have in the game. The general average of the size limitation for J2ME apps right now is around 100-128 KB. You have to really optimize your code and the imagery for space. Also, there isn't any standard key setup for the devices. J2ME has a "game action" feature set up on most devices which allows it to be a little more portable, but you still have to recode key actions for some devices since they don't support things exactly right. Also, different manufacturers have different ways of handling sound on their devices. The easiest brand by far to do sound for is Nokia. Nokia is the best brand to do mobile development for, hands down. They've got a great forum to get help, plus they've got plenty of SDKs and documentation to make your development work easier.
2. There is a lot of complete SHIT out there right now. The industry is still in its infancy right now, as far as I can see. People see that this is a budding industry and they want to try to cash in with whatever kind of droll they can write and release in a week. There are some really good games out there, but they're few and far between. Macrospace is a good developer, I know a guy who codes for them, nice people. Also, my artist has done contract work for them in the past. The worst thing is, there are a good number of shady distributors out there who won't think twice about ripping off small developers in a heartbeat. The first game I did with the UK company got released through a distributor in the UK probably 3 months ago. We haven't gotten a revenue report from them as of yet. Hell, they won't even reply to our emails or phone calls. Doesn't really represent their company well, in my humble opinion.
Doing mobile development for hobby purposes right now is fine. It's pretty fun in the beginning, and I imagine it would continue to be fun if you didn't have the pressures of commercial development. That was very hard on me, especially since I was expecting to see some revenues to help me pay bills and such. I haven't seen any revenues as of yet, and it's been a year.
Mobile development is a challenge. If you like that, then go for it. That's just my synopsis of the situation.
Dave
#9746 - davidwilson - Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:05 pm
By the way, your general screen sizes for cell phones usually average at 128x128 (nokia series 40), 120x160 (motorola t720, sharp, panasonic), 176x208 (nokia series 60). They do support alpha channels in the PNG files, but it looks terrible most times.
Dave
#9820 - sgeos - Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:10 am
| davidwilson wrote: |
| I've done 3 games and I'm in the process of a 4th one. |
What are the names of your titles, if you don't mind me asking.
| Quote: |
From my experience, the mobile industry is not really ready yet for those who really want to write good games. It's possible, but it's much harder to do well while doing it. There are two main reasons for this:
1. The hardware on the cellphones SUCKS. |
I'm not convinced that low specs ought to indicate poor games. Low specs will not lend to special effects games at all, but there were a lot of great games on the C64, Atari and NES. Some of the better ones were content games- games sold on their content as oppose to high budget special effects.
| Quote: |
| The functionality of the game has to be pretty simplistic for it to run well. |
What kind of processor are we looking at? Is J2ME inherently slow? How much optimization is possible?
| Quote: |
Also, you have severe restrictions in the amount of artwork you can have in the game. ... They do support alpha channels in the PNG files, but it looks terrible most times.
|
Can you store graphics in custom formats to save space? Are there recommendations against animations and what not to save battery power? (Palm devices have such recommendations.)
| Quote: |
| The general average of the size limitation for J2ME apps right now is around 100-128 KB. |
Ouch. Adom, my favorite example of a content game is 2000K, no graphics at all.
| Quote: |
By the way, your general screen sizes for cell phones usually average at 128x128 (nokia series 40), 120x160 (motorola t720, sharp, panasonic), 176x208 (nokia series 60).
You have to really optimize your code and the imagery for space. |
I imagine. How portable are the games from one phone to the next? Do separate versions need to be made for each phone?
| Quote: |
| Also, there isn't any standard key setup for the devices. |
That sounds like a pain.
| Quote: |
| Different manufacturers have different ways of handling sound on their devices. |
What kinds of limitations are we looking at for sound?
| Quote: |
| 2. There is a lot of complete SHIT out there right now. |
Very refined language usage. Do people actually play it? Is it actually making money?
| Quote: |
| The industry is still in its infancy right now, as far as I can see. |
I imagine it is. I am confident that it will mature and become a big market someday.
| Quote: |
| People see that this is a budding industry and they want to try to cash in with whatever kind of droll they can write and release in a week. |
I hope that is an overstatement.
| Quote: |
| The worst thing is, there are a good number of shady distributors out there who won't think twice about ripping off small developers in a heartbeat. |
A) What legal protection do small developers have against this sort of thing?
B) How are the games distributed?
| Quote: |
| The first game I did with the UK company got released through a distributor in the UK probably 3 months ago. We haven't gotten a revenue report from them as of yet. Hell, they won't even reply to our emails or phone calls. Doesn't really represent their company well, in my humble opinion. |
What game, what company? If you don't mind my asking.
| Quote: |
| I haven't seen any revenues as of yet, and it's been a year. |
Does that work? I imagine you have some financial obligations.
| Quote: |
Nokia is the best brand to do mobile development for, hands down. They've got a great forum to get help, plus they've got plenty of SDKs and documentation to make your development work easier.
...
Mobile development is a challenge. If you like that, then go for it. That's just my synopsis of the situation. |
I'll need to head over and take a look. This sounds very interesting, actually. Are there any good resources out there you could point me at?
Thatnks a lot! That was very informative.
-Brendan
#10749 - Malefactor - Sun Sep 14, 2003 12:07 pm
the GBA is definatley not dead! for proof browser over to gamefaqs.com
the 1 and 6 most viewed faqs are GBA games.
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#12496 - dagamer34 - Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:18 am
Low specs make you realize how many games depend on flashy graphics to sell. Notice there is little tur ORIGINAL content in there.
I have never programmed for a cell phone so don't take my opinion for fact.
WHAT, YOU THINK THE GBA WILL DIE??????
The GBA is basically the best a 2D programming could wish for!! (it could be a little better, like sound, cool graphics go good with nice sound, but i am not complaining, at least nintendo allowed us to do more than *beep* *boop* *beep* *beep* as a crude substitute for sound.)
I have never seen a better developed portable. While i am here, the N-Gage is a cell-phone/portable gaming system. God must have been on an off day to let that happen. It is a lot easier for a programmer to do one ore the other but not both.
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#12499 - IAMTHEEVILBEAN - Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:50 am
The GBA will live on.....The sony handheld device doesnt stand a chance
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#12520 - Malefactor - Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:44 pm
#12521 - yaustar - Sun Nov 16, 2003 7:33 pm
With all this new high powered software, I believe that code will become sloppier and sloppier because programmers can get away with it due to the high specs of the hardware.
A reason why programmers still program for consoles like the Atari and C64 etc is because they like the challenge of hardware limits. They have to use some creativity in their code to either make it fit, run smoothly etc.
Added to the fact that you can something running in a night or two adds to the appeal.
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#12522 - IAMTHEEVILBEAN - Sun Nov 16, 2003 7:38 pm
yeah thats true....
and if the GBa is overcome by the new Sony thing or the NGAUGE OMFG LOOK OUT
the code cant be THAT much differnt so it wouldn't be that hard to adapt.
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